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    • Hopefully this has done it, thank you for your help   Evergreens.pdf
    • In 2016 my business was subject to a fraud regarding a Rolex watch which we had taken in as part exchange from a local and well known customer. We took his steel Rolex and he paid a few thousand £s extra and bought a pre owned gold one from us.  Having bought his watch, part of the deal was we would not sell it until he returned from over wintering  in Australia after a few months. Upon his return he was planning to either part exchange the pre owned gold one back and buy a brand new version of it,  or he might like to simply  buy his original one back.  The watch therefore sat in my safe for nearly a year. At which point we attempted to contact the customer only to find his obituary. He was ill before he travelled so we suspect he knew he might not return.   It was a few weeks before Christmas so we put his (which was now ours) watch in the window (as it was) to sell and sold it within a few days. Had it not sold before Christmas we  would have sent it to Rolex for service and refurbishment, and subsequently offer it for a higher price in the spring (Rolex would also have identified it as fake). Two years later the customer that bought the watch returned it quite upset after he had sent it to a national watch buyer to sell, but was told it was a high end counterfeit (ie not your $20 Chinese throwaway, but one purposely manufactured to deceive).   After some checking ourselves, we refunded the customer and spoke with our insurers.   Our business insurance provided all risks cover with a few exclusions (terrorism etc) and was a very well known policy that many/most UK retail jewellers take up. Indeed we had held the policy for many years.  Fraud is an insured risk.   It is my view that a customer selling us a fake watch is a fraud. The broker enquired with underwriters and they have said it is not covered. I am not satisfied and have asked the broker to send me the wording of the policy so I can read the exclusions. I am told they have searched their archive but cannot find the policy so cannot send it to me. They have asked me if I have my copy? I haven't found my policy document either and fear I threw it away upon renewal. But wonder, if I do keep looking, whether it would be a good tactic to let them have my copy. We have been renovating the house for a year and the attic is absolutely chock a block with stuff, a thorough search through the old books would take a week or more.  I have suggested if they cannot find the wording sold with my policy they should settle the claim. Clearly they cannot reject the claim without the wording? It sounds odd to me that they even need to retrieve the policy to find the wording.    I am quite certain a claim for fraud is an insured risk. I guess somebody has to judge whether the transaction was fraudulent first though. I am quite happy to issue a summons if the insurers reject my claim by trying to suggest the risk was not covered (unless it obviously isn't), which is why we need the wording.   Comments and a strategy would be very useful to understand whether or how to proceed. The claim is for £3500.
    • So let’s say you won’t get more than 1 hour for lunch, so 48Hr/wk is your paid hours. That gives you 2496Hrs/yr at £20k yours hourly rate is £8.01/Hr.    if you are 21 or 22 you should be on £8.36 23 or over takes you to £8.91   so unless you are younger than 21 you are below minimum wage and they are breaking the law if those are the hours you are contracted for. 
    • you read UPLOAD use jpg to redact then convert and merge to PDF.
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Hi...

well I was a idiot and got a log book loan from car cash point.... if only I knew how underhand and disgusting this company was I would never have done it.  They haven’t been very flexible considering it’s been a global pandemic and I’m a hairdresser so have been off 9 month more or less. So many things they have done must be illegal.

 

They made a arrangement with me on the 20th December 2020 if I paid 300 and then my monthly 110 it would stop repossession, which I did, I had correspondence with them on the 11th say my full balance due on the 18th Feb was £1875.29 even though in earlier correspondence we had changed payment dates to 28th as that’s when I get paid .

 

In the email on the 11th nothing is mentioned about a 3rd party or repossession.

On 23rd Feb 2021 I get an alert through my insurance my car is moving, I’m in the house , nobody knocked nothing they took my car with all my possessions without the keys and didn’t let me know, if they had I would of been able to try get the funds.

 

2-3 days I have been arguing with them and the repossession company.

They took my car over 40 mins away with my bankcard, shop keys everything in.

I managed to borrow the 2000 pound as it had shot up to 2274.29 within days.

 

I went to collect my vehicle yesterday which was another nightmare trying to tell me to wait another 24 hours which I wasn’t they had the money I wanted my car.

 

On getting my vehicle on inspection they have damaged my car, it had a knock above the wheel arch I have proof of it before as I done it getting into work but they have took my paint work down to the metal. you can see it’s where they must of tied it to tow truck.

 

I’m not letting this lie Everything they do is so corrupt me and my solicitor friend are going through everything with a fine tooth comb I’m going to ombudsman and I’ve also wrote to watchdog.

 

feel very strongly as this  company are nothing but criminals through legal loopholes.

Has anyone had any similar experiences with this company and had damage to their vehicle?

 

I think if enough people complain they will get investigated.

I feel it was bully boy tactics as I said I would be able to pay hence the arrangement they made with me. 

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Welcome to the forum.

You've posted your story in a very solid block of text and this makes it very difficult to read – especially for people with small screens.

Apart from anything else, this will have the effect of discouraging people from taking the time to understand your story and to give you the help you need.

Please will you repost your story properly spaced and punctuated.

Thank you

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i've done it now.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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was your car on the public highway.?

and how far were you into the LBL when they took it.?

 

outline when you took the loan out?

for how much and how many months for?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My car was on road outside my house. 

i took the loan out october 2019, never defaulted till June 2020. Requested payment holiday which they granted, still struggle due to Covid.

 

on the paper work it says I took 2000 and pay back 175, a month. I actually only had 1200 at 105 a month. They never sent me new paper work.

 

Hence kept telling me wrong settlement figures or would not send you settlement figures, then another date would pass. 

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Your damage claim will be against the powerless guy with a flatbed.

 

Your problem here is that you left the car on a public highway after taking out a lbl against it. Nothing illegal nor criminal has happened at all. As long as they issued a default notice and the bill of sale was registered within  7 days, they can take the car without needing to tell you as long as it is not on private property .

 

Was your credit file shot with defaults, ccjs, missing payments when you took this out oct19

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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What about the 300 payment I paid in December to stop repossession? And never defaulted since. 
 

Just defaults off a previous year due to injury. 
 

Car wouldn’t of been left there if I knew. How do I find out about a bill of sale?

 
I wouldn’t of left it there if they hadn’t made the arrangement with me. As I knew I would have the money to pay it by 18th March. 
 

 I have my car back now but it is damaged, which I’m going to have to pull out for. 

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any arrangement doesn't negate the fact they issued a default notice because you were behind, if the sum on the DN was not settled by the date on the DN + atleast 14 days, the arrangement is immaterial.

 

here are my notes on LBL's and how to check various things.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?452164-Log-Book-Loan-Guidance&p=4791345#post4791345

from my notes. [prob same as above!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Affordability is a prime concern but with LBL - Because they are secured - It is very hard to do a Irresponsible Lending complaint unless they seriously overvalued the car

logbook loan repossessions are not always legal, 
.
if linked to a CCA HP agreement or if the BOS has not been registered with the high court.

.
If BOS registered then yes they can reposses, 
but not from private land
the guys that turn up are NOT bailiffs either
so have ZERO legal powers.
Thave to show registration and debt details.*
.
Registration
.
A bill of sale can only be enforced if it was properly registered.
Since this is an expensive and difficult process, 
it is rare that this actually happens. 
.
Before your lender can end the agreement and take your goods, they must send you an arrears notice and a default notice under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. 
.
The default notice gives you 14 days to make up any missing payments. 
.
If the lender is a member of the CCTA, they must follow two rules from their code of practice before taking the goods back.
.
They must try to reach a realistic repayment agreement with you. 
.
You must also have missed paying an amount equal to the last two monthly payments (or the last four weekly payments if you pay weekly).
.
Failure to register the bill of sale renders it void and so renders any security on goods void.
.
 Consequently, before allowing any creditor to gain possession of your goods, 
ask to see a registered copy of the bill showing the supreme courts seal.
.
 You can also call the national debt line, and ask them how to search the registry yourself.
.
 Also a valid DN must be issued.

.
If linked to a CCA then can not reposses if on private property without a court order 
( but can if on public road and under a third has only been paid ).
.
Over a third, they need a court order wherever it is.
.
check for...[BOS]
.
Not Registered With The High Court In 7 Days
not registered AT ALL!
 .
*Credit Agreement Details Not On The Bill Of Sale

You should also check that the name on the registration documents 
matches the name of the person who signed the BOS

On occasions these cars get sold on several times

.
how to check if your BOS is registered: (NOT for NI)
.
email:[email protected] ov.uk.[no spaces]
.
ring:020 7947 7772 
.
write:
QB Enforcement Section, 
Room E15-E17, 
Royal Courts of Justice, 
Strand, London, WC2A

...
.
ideally you need the BOS number
.
however
they can search by the Reg Number
.
............... 

also see:
http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-types/consumer-credit/consumer-credit-research/logbook-loans

.....

Do you have a problem with a Logbook Loan?
 With Citizens advice estimating that over 60,000 of these loans were taken out in 2014 alone
 an increasing number a causing severe difficulty and distress for borrowers.
.
 In this guide we explain what a logbook loan is, and how they work. 
 What you can do if you have a repayment problem,
 and what you can do if you have unknowingly bought a car with a logbook loan attached.
.
 Three golden rules for Logbbok Loans
.
 1)No matter how desperate you are to purchase a car, or raise cash, 
NEVER consider this type of Finance
 These loans are designed purely for the benefit of the lenders. 
With APRs of 400+%, little consumer protection, and aggressive debt collectionicon practices
 they should be avoided at all costs.
.
 2)When purchasing a used car from whatever source,private or trade, 
ALWAYS do a FULL GENUINE HPI CHECK costing around £20, 
these come with a guarantee against any form of existing finance, including lbl's
.
 3)If you have any problem with a Logbook Loan, 
your first step is ALWAYS to check that the Bill Of Sale has been registered
 with the High Court. You can do this here-
.
 to check if registered
.
 Contact Details
.
 QB Enforcement Section
 Room E15-17
 Royal Courts of Justice
 Strand
 London
 WC2A 2LL
 DX 44450 Strand
.
 Telephone: 020 7947 7772
 Fax: 0870 324 0024
 Email: [email protected] ov.uk
.
 You may read on the internet that your BOS will be void if witnessed by your lbl lender
.
 Since the OFT( as was) lost the attestation case on appeal by 2 to1 this is NOT the case
.
 full details here http://www.bailii.org/cgi-bin/markup...method=boolean
.
 Logbook loans are a form of credit dating back to the Victorian era, 
derived from the 1878/1882 Bills Of Sale Acts, with terms and conditions to match in many cases.
.
 Problems are many fold from extortionate charges by lenders for calling a customer, 
to repossessions where owners have been left at the side of a busy road,
 unable to get to work, and even sexual harassment via debt collection.
.
 Poor practices abound, unsurprising when there is no incentive for lenders 
to ensure their customers understand the terms or can afford the repayments.
 In fact the very nature of this form of finance could be seen to encourage bad behaviour
 – why carry out affordability checks if a single missed payments means you get to keep 
 the money and takeaway the car?
.
.
 How does it work?
.
 When you take out a logbook loan you will be asked to hand over your vehicle’s logbook 
or vehicle registration document, which proves you are the registered keeper of the vehicle.
.
 You’ll also have to sign a credit agreement and a form called a ‘bill of sale’. 
This means the lender now owns your vehicle on a temporary basis 
but you are still able to use it so long as you meet all loan repayments. 
.
These documents are recognised by law in England, Wales and Northern Ireland 
but are not used in Scotland.
.
 The law only recognises a bill of sale if the lender registers it with the High Court. 
If it’s not registered, the lender must get a court’s approval to repossess your vehicle. 
.
You should check if the bill of sale is registered.
.

 What you should do if you have a repayment problem
.
 1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above
.
 2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974
.
 allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)
.
 You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the dn
.
 look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

.
 What you can do if you have purchased a car with an existing logbook loan
.
 If you receive a letter threatening to repossess the car or an enforcement officer 
turns up at your home to take it, you may not be able to stop them. 
.
•ask to see proof of their identity and their authorisation to take the car
•ask to see the bill of sale document – they have to show you this if you ask for it
•if you feel threatened by how an enforcement officer is behaving, call the polic
•ask for written confirmation of what has been taken
•get the contact details for the logbook loan company.
.
If the lender has taken your car, you can try to get it back 
and reclaim your money from the seller. 
However, this can be a costly and time-consuming process and is not guaranteed to succeed.
.
 If you want to get the car back, you could pay off the outstanding loan 
and then take the person who sold you the car to court, to try to get your money back.
 .
 If you just want to get your money back, you can take the person who sold you the car to court. 
 Always get independent advice before you decide to take someone to court.
.
 Some lenders are members of the consumer credit Trade Association (CCTA), 
which has a code of practice covering logbook loans. 
The code of practice says the lender must register the logbook loan on a register, 
so it will show up when you carry out a history check on the car. 
It also says they must obey certain rules when they repossess a car.
.
 If you are unhappy with the way a logbook loan lender or its enforcement officers have behaved, 
find out whether they are a member. If so, you can complain directly to the CCTA.
However this code is regularly ignored
.
http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/our-code.aspx
.
 Finally both the Financial Conduct Authority and the Law Commission are investigating 
Logbook Lending  and the associated legislation, 

full details here--
.
http://www.fca.org.uk/firms/firm-typ.../logbook-loans
.
http://lawcommission.justice.gov.uk/...ls-of-sale.htm
.
for anyones info, you must act immediately on receipt of a default notice
.
What you should do if you have a repayment problem
.
 1) check your Bill Of Sale is registered as above
.
 2) the lender must send you a default notice which complies with the requirements of s87(1)cca1974
 allowing you fourteen clear days to remedy any default (which can be after one missed payment)
.
 You should , if your lender will not negotiate a reduced payment, straight away on receipt of the default notice look to take out a time order. This gains you the protection of the court, which can look into the overall loan--
.
https://www.nationaldebtline.org/EW/...t/Default.aspx

Bills of Sale Act does not apply in Scotland,
just to reassure you from the Money Advice Service *Taking out a logbook loan in Scotland*

  In Scotland, ‘bills of sale’ cannot be used as security and are not legally binding.
  Lenders in Scotland are therefore likely to be operating under different credit arrangements.
  If the logbook loan is a ‘hire-purchase agreement’ or a ‘conditional  sale’, your consumer rights and protection under the Consumer Credit Act  1974 will apply.
.
worth a read
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472038-ACF-THe-funding-Corp-illegal-repo-now-DCA-Chasing-loan&p=4972172#post4972172


.

dx

 

 

CCA BOS Sale-Code-of-Practice-consumer feb 2015.pdf Law Commission BOS reform_summary sept 2016.pdf

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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1 hour ago, Darkk14 said:

on the paper work it says I took 2000 and pay back 175, a month.

I actually only had 1200 at 105 a month.

They never sent me new paper work

 

im interested in this bit too:

look at the bill of sale

it must have the exact details of the loan on it.. 

 

have you the BOS?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

The repossession people didn’t even knock on my door, I was home with my 2 children we would of heard, They took my car with bank card, shop keys and valuables in which I needed, if they had of knocked I would of sorted the money while they were there. 
 

I will check bill of sale when I am back home will it be original one or should I have got another one? 

 

as the paper work I have certainly doesn’t match. I did agree to lower amount but expected new paper work to sign which never come. 
 

 

 

Edited by Darkk14
Missed something
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they don't have to knock on your door if the car is on public highway.

as long as a default notice has been issued as above etc etc.

 

i'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'lower amount'

if you mean the original loan which you claim should have been 1200/105PCM or the 2000/175,

 

i suggest 1200/105PCM is without their interest and would = 2000/175PCM with it which is where you might be getting confused.

 

read our upload guide carefully and after redacting each page whilst a picture file .jpg, put the lot in one multipage PDF

lets see everything.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Illegal? No, Corrupt? No, 

In breach of PRIN and the CCTA code? Possibly, dependant on your correspondence and arrangements with them - send a SAR

 

What people have to realise is once you sign a BOS the car is no longer yours

You have permission to use it whilst you comply with the loan agreement 

Your protection is the Default Notice should you get into arrears 

It is prior to or on receipt of this that you need to converse with the lender don't ignore it

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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