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P2G and Hermes- robbed parcel


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Hi

-I bought a £500 bike on EBay from a private seller

- listing stated “collection in person only” but after asking he agreed to post it

- I bought a Hermes label using Parcel2Go, filled out all mine and seller’s details, and sent it to him. All he had to do was to stick it on the box and wait for courier to collect 

 

- on the day of collection I received an email that “courier wasn’t able to collect the parcel” (seller assured me no one showed up for it as he’s been waiting)

- same thing happened the next day. I knew Hermes tried to collect x3 and didn’t want to miss the third attempt so I asked the seller if he could drop in off and the nearest parcel drop off point. 
He agreed and dropped it off.

 

- Few days later the parcel arrived empty. It was half opened. I opened it in courier’s presence only to find bubble wrap and empty cardboard box. I asked him if there is a report we should fill out in situations like that. He said there wasn’t and that this is how he collected it from the local depot. He handed me blue card with a phone number to text ( texted 3 times heard nothing back)

 

I took photos of the box (with courier in the background and said I don’t accept it because it’s been robbed)

- I contacted the seller. He informed police about it so he could get cctv video from the parcel drop off point proving the box was heavy and needed two people to carry it. 
-I informed police on my end hoping they could take a statement from the courier who delivered the box. They listened to my story but weren’t too bothered. They said I’ll get my money back if I paid with PayPal.

- I got my money back.

- police said I’m no longer at financial loss so to them the case is closed.

 

- I want to fight with Hermes and P2G to get the £500 back from them so I can give it back to the seller. I’m convinced he sent the bike. He showed me the package before sending, we are in ongoing contact. He got the cctv footage etc. I feel horrible because it was me who chose the courier and it was me who asked him to post it, and now he has no bike and no money. 


- I contacted P2G on live chat (since there’s no possible way to contact Hermes).

They said to allow them 14 days for investigation. They were supposed to check cctv from depots and weighting points to see where the parcel went down from 15kg to nearly 1kg

 

- after 14 days I contacted them again only to be told that Hermes hasn’t provided any information and now an automatic claim has been opened.

- I provided all documents they asked for and now I’m waiting for the outcome but I already got email saying I can only count for £20 since I haven’t opted for extra protection. I haven’t paid for extra protection since stealing is illegal no matter for paying extra or not. I figured they won’t loose my parcel since it was a huge box and was ready to risk the damage. The point here is that they haven’t damaged it or lost it- It Has been delivered- Robbed. 


- I’ve got all the chat scripts, emails between me and the seller, listing details, crime/ incident number/ photos of empty box delivered, photos of seller dropping it of, photos of the parcel before sending etc.

I also have time and will to take them to court and open small claim. I think I might qualify for the cost relief too. 

My main question here is - Do I, as a person who bought the servis and haven’t received the item can open the small claim against Hermes and/or P2G.

Can I do it even though I’m no longer at “financial loss” (since PayPal refunded me). Do I need to tell them that at all? 
 

I hate this whole situation and hate the fact that I can’t afford to give the seller his money back and be at loss too. It was a used bike, a gift for my daughter’s 10th birthday. I don’t want the time to ease my anger and forget about it because at the other end of this, there’s an honest guy who did everything he could send me that bike. 
 

I know there are other posts that are almost the same as this one. Please can you just read through it and say what rights do I have to ask them for money back if I already got them from PayPal. 

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It is the seller who should be bringing the action because they are the person who has lost the money.

We can help them that you should contact them and tell them to come and register on this forum and assure them that everything is free and that we offer the best chance of getting their money back from Hermes – and not only that, it will be interesting and fun.

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I sent him the link for this forum yesterday but will tell him what you said. If he decides to post here I’ll be following it to help as much as I can. 
Thanks for answering, it means a lot (after going from place to place discovering no one cares.)

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We care, we are highly motivated – and we enjoy winning against Hermes – which we do on pretty well every occasion.

Start reading the sub- forums so that you are familiar with all the Hermes stories and the way that the process normally goes. Make sure you understand the mediation process. Make sure also that you understand the steps involved in bringing a small claim in the County Court. It's very easy but you need to know the steps in advance so that you have confidence.

Don't forget that this is a self-help forum

 

If you have CCTV footage then please post it here. I suggest that you put it up on youtube and then post a link to it on this thread.

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Hi Everyone, 

I am the seller in this case and want to thank the buyer for their support. 
The bike was delivered to the local Hermes Parcel Shop really well packaged and sealed on the 3rd Feb with a receipt obtained.  Sadly the parcel was emptied on route to the buyer.  


I had listed the bike for collection only however the buyer messaged and asked if we could arrange a courier to which I agreed and they organised that.  When the bike went missing I contacted the local police as the Hermes parcel shop said they would not release CCTV to me.  We got all this from the Police. 


since then the buyer has tried his very best which I am grateful with Hermes and parcel2go but is struggling.  Any help is appreciated. 

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Welcome.

please follow the advice given above as to reading around the various stories and then monitor this thread for a full reply tomorrow

 

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The reason that I have indicated that it is the seller who should bring an action against Hermes is not because they are the seller – but because they are the person who suffered the loss. If you haven't suffered a loss then you probably don't have the status – locus standi – to bring a court action.

Of course there is a slight problem that you didn't enter into the contract with Hermes – the purchaser did. Until 1999 this would have been a problem and would have prevented you from bringing any kind of action at all – at least on the basis of contract. However, since 1999, the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act gives the beneficiary of any contract full third party rights as if they were a contracting party. The only exception to this is that if the contract specifically excluded non-contracting parties – and I'm not aware that Hermes has yet amended their contract to try and prevent this.

Of course as usual, Hermes will make a big point about the fact that no insurance was purchased. Hopefully you have been reading around the threads on this sub- forum and you have seen that our view is that it is completely unfair and in fact it is absurd to require a customer to pay money to protect Hermes or any other service provider from the consequences of their own negligence or the criminality of their own employees.
Every time this point has been raised with Hermes in mediation, Hermes have settled and we consider that it is because they want to avoid going to court to get a definitive judgement that their insurance scam – is precisely that – a scam.
On the basis of what I understand here, this is more than just negligence there is criminality and your bike has been stolen.

You've already begun a complaint and you have been knocked back and so I think there's no point in mucking around and I think that you should simply issue a letter of claim to Hermes giving them 14 days to settle in full or else you will begin a court action.
Make sure that you have read around the forum about taking a small claim in the County Court. It's very easy but you need to be aware of the steps. If you send the letter of claim, then don't expect that they are suddenly going to refund you your money. They won't. They will force you to issue the court papers and who will then force you to pay the hearing fee. At this point, they will opt for mediation and they will try to knock you down and get your compromise in your claim.
You should stand your ground and refused to compromise even a single penny.

We will help you all the way.

You seem to be a seller and a purchaser here who are getting on very well together and so as you are motivated by a common purpose, you may want to get an agreement where you decide to share the fees of court action – which won't be very much. I haven't checked the court fees for this value claim – but I expect that the whole thing will be only about £120. Of course you will get that back when you win – but bear in mind there is a is a slight risk factor and that means that £120 would be the extent of your risk and would be the maximum that you would lose. It is inconceivable that you would lose.

You should be claiming the cost of the bike, the cost of delivery, plus interest which is presently 8% – a very good rate in today's economic climate. Of course you will also claim back your court fees.

If you want to proceed then please let us know and let us know also that you have read around the stories and also the steps involved taking a small claim in the County Court and that you understand what you are doing.

If you do your basic reading over the next couple of days then we can help you draft a letter of claim on Sunday and you can send it off on Monday.

I would recommend that you post your draft letter of claim on this forum so we can check it. Keep it short and to the point.

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Hi thanks so much for the update and all the information. I will get my reading glasses on and look at the claim info and court info.  I agree let’s proceed issuing a letter straight away.  I am happy to stump the fees for court and am confident we will win.  The police officer I have dealt with has secured further CCTV evidence which I will ask a solicitor friend to get hold of from the Hermes parcel shop should we need any further evidence the parcel was dropped and collected. 
Once I have read all the pages on here I will start putting the letter together and post on here for further advice. 
thanks again, 

mark 

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