Refund Advice Please on purchase

[jasonc488]

Hi,

Just after some advice please. It might take a bit of reading, but please bear with me. 

 

Sunday 14th Feb:

Purchased a gift card to use on Currys website. Ordered TV for £1300 for click and collect, picked up immediately. 

 

Got home and set TV up, there was a problem with it. The picture kept flickering, spend all evening playing around with the settings to try and see if there is something I've done wrong, even factory resetted TV. But problem still persist.

 

Monday 15th Feb:

Took TV back to store, explained issue and was hoping to get a replacement. But they did not have anymore in stock. Gentlemen offered me refund back to my bank or gift card. I chose giftcard as I was going to return home and order through website. 

 

After 4 phone calls to Currys and over 30 minutes wait on each call and getting cut off, I ordered through website for next day delivery which I paid £20 for. 

 

Tuesday 16th Feb: 

With no delivery confirmation email, only order confirmation email, I contacted Currys through webchat and Facebook. I was told that my order is awaiting for approval??? And that they will send an email to head office to give them a nudge to push this order through. 

I'm not getting the next day delivery I paid for, I will get a date once the order is approved. They said they will refund my delivery charge via gift card (I paid this with debit card). 

 

I asked about cancelling the order and getting a refund back to my bank and I'll get the TV elsewhere, they said they can only refund via giftcard. Not that I would want to shop there again. 

 

Can I get advice please, if this is correct? Any help appreciated. Thanks in Advance. 

 

[BankFodder]

I understand that you are asking whether you are entitled to receive a cash refund.

I think the answer is yes.

Once you have purchased the TV initially with a gift card, if there is a defect in it then they are obliged to refund the purchase price and they are not entitled to trap you into buying another television or any other item from them.
If you had rejected the TV because of some cooling off period then that would be a different matter but because they have effectively breach the contract by supplying you with a defective TV, you are entitled to a refund of the value – not the gift card – or a replacement at your option and also it was for them to arrange for any delivery.
It should have been completely unnecessary to pay anything extra for a next day delivery.

The problem now is that you are dealing with Currys who frankly seem to be an unpleasant and reluctant company to deal with when things go wrong.

If you want your money back so that you can spend it somewhere else, then you had better get ready for the long haul. We can help you – but don't expect that curries are suddenly going to stand to attention and acknowledge your consumer rights

[jasonc488]

Thank you for your input.

I'm just worried with the lack of customer service I've received so far, if something should go wrong, where would I stand. So far, it looks like their customer service is as expected. I've not heard about any delivery for my TV for today or even given any date as yet. Surely its false advertising on their part, I'm sure alot of other consumers would be stuck like myself. 

[BankFodder]

I don't see why you should be worried about the lack of customer service. This is the level of customer service that you buy into when you are doing business with Currys/PC World.

I'm afraid that this is to a certain extent what you get by tying yourself into this company with things like gift cards et cetera. If you had paid by debit card then you could have demanded a chargeback from your bank immediately.

I'm afraid there is no quick way to handle this and unfortunately the quickest will be that they eventually give you a new TV set. However, it's outrageous that they are waiting for "approval". Your customer rights exist without needing approval and they are immediately enforceable.
I'm not sure what to advise you for a quick solution on this. If you wanted you could send them a letter of claim immediately and if it didn't sort itself out within 14 days then simply issue the court papers suing for your refund plus 8%. There is no doubt but that you would win – and you would also get your costs. Of course Currys won't learn anything by it and nothing will change in respect all the other customers

[Manxman in exile]

Can you clarify please?

 

You bought the first (faulty) TV on a giftcard and they offered to refund you either to your bank* or back to the giftcard, and you chose a refund to the giftcard because you were going to use it for another purchase.

 

But when you ordered the second TV, you paid for it by debit card and not on the giftcard**.  Now you want to cancel that second order and get a refund.

 

As I understand it, the supplier has to refund you using the same method that you paid by (unless you agree to be refunded by a different method).  So if you paid for the second order by debit card, that is how you should be refunded; if you used the giftcard, the refund should go on the giftcard.

 

* I'm surprised they gave you the choice - they only had to offer a refund on the giftcard

 

** Or do you mean you only paid the delivery charge by debit card?  That might be a problem.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Manxman in exile

[jasonc488]

Hi, 

I paid for the delivery via debit card. £20. They said they can only refund me via giftcard and not back to my bank. Because the value of the purchase was more via giftcard for the TV.

The TV was paid in full via the giftcard. 

I've still not heard anything from them about my TV and when it will be delivered, this worries me more because should there be any issues in the future (touch wood the TV will be fine and last longer than the 5 year guarantee) and I need to make a claim, I don't want the stress I'm going through right now with the purchase.

Thank you for your advice, I'm learning alot from the replies here. 

 

[Manxman in exile]

So what are you trying to accomplish?

 

Do you just want a refund of the £20 delivery charge or are you trying to cancel the whole order?

 

If you are trying to cancel the whole order I think they are entitled to put it on the giftcard if that is how you paid for the TV.

 

But if you just want a refund of next-day delievery then I think they ought to refund it to your debit card, but whether it's worth arguing with them over it if they only want to put it on the giftcard is up to you.

[BankFodder]

You say that they told you that they can only refund you via the gift card and not back to your bank. Big surprise! What else did you expect them to say?

I don't know if you are in the right mindset yet. You are dealing with a company – one of many – which have no respect for your consumer rights and are used to getting away with it because people don't know their rights or else they don't have the confidence to stand up for themselves.
Stop believing them. That would be a good start.

Gift card or no gift card, you are entitled to reject the TV and insist on a refund of the full value of your purchase so that you can go and spend the money elsewhere.

Don't expect them to be happy about this. If you want stress then you better go along with it and simply be patient. If you want to assert your rights than afraid that you will have to stand up to them and it will be stressful because they are in the business of making it stressful for you and if you decide to confront them they will even spend more than it's worth trying to crush you then simply to meeting their consumer obligations and doing something which enhances their customer reputation.

I think you have to decide what you want to do and then we will tell you this possible and we will help you if it is.

19 minutes ago, Manxman in exile said:

 

 

If you are trying to cancel the whole order I think they are entitled to put it on the giftcard if that is how you paid for the TV.

 

 

 

Sorry but I disagree with this completely.

[BankFodder]

I think I have to modify my response above.

I said I disagreed that the refund must be made by way of a gift card.

In fact if one reads the consumer rights act, it seems that if you made a contract for a certain value then you are only entitled to receive a refund of that value. This would mean for instance that if you wanted to take advantage of the gift card discount, then you would have to accept a refund to the gift card.

I find this repugnant because contract law is based on the creation and realisation of reasonable expectations in the minds of the contracting partners.

We going to get a bit complicated and theoretical here – and may be @jasonc488 would rather keep it more simple – and I wouldn't blame them.

We don't know the cost of the gift card and we don't know the cost of the TV. One of them was £1300 but I don't know which.

If you bought a £1300 TV using a £1000 gift card, then that effectively means that you had a reasonable expectation of obtaining an item worth £1300.

If Currys breach the contract (as they clearly have) and then then are only prepared to refund you £1000 to your gift card which effectively means that you can only buy items with Currys if you want to take advantage of the gift card discount, it seems to me that you have been deprived of your reasonable expectation – of having £1300.

So if you fall back to standard contract principles, I think you are entitled to recover your expectation loss which is the full £1300 – and then go and spend it elsewhere – or if you want spend it with Currys.

On that basis, it seems to me that the consumer rights act is quite unsatisfactory when you are dealing with items which are discounted because of some kind of voucher. This effectively gives a retailer who has breach the contract a way of refunding you less than they promised you – in this case, a £1300 television.

As we've heard, the OP is already getting fed up with the stress of this – and I don't blame them. If they want a stressfree life then they will probably have to accept the gift card and hope it doesn't take too long.

On the other hand, if they really don't want to deal with Currys any more that they want to be able to spend the full value of the TV elsewhere, then we can help them that I expect it will mean starting a legal action which they would win, although it wouldn't be straightforward.

[jasonc488]

Thank you again for the replies. 

 

I'm currently waiting for contact from currys or lack of. 

 

But I wanted to know my options if this TV fails to turn up within a reasonable time, if I am 100% stuck with only a giftcard refund because I purchased a giftcard to buy the TV. Or can I get a refund back into my bank. 

 

If the latter is possible and the TV does not turn up, I'm happy to keep pushing them until this is done. 

 

But, if this is not possible, then I don't want to fight a losing battle so to speak.

[BankFodder]

I don't know what the terms of the gift card are. I expect that they are very clear that once you buy the gift card, that's it and you don't get any money back.

That's why you might benefit from this breach of contract if they don't sorted out quickly if you eventually want to say to them that it's gone on too long and you are now rejecting anything else other than a full refund of the value of the TV and you are prepared to accept any more gift cards or any other offers.

I don't think you will fight a losing battle. At the very least, the value of your gift card is safe. They will never manage to take that away from you. It simply a question of whether you managed to force them to pay you cash. If you do manage to force them to pay you cash then I expect that you will be able to get the value of the TV rather than the value of the gift card – but as I have tried to explain above – in a rather complicated way – it won't be easy.

It will be interesting – it might even be fun – but it won't be easy

[Manxman in exile]

I'm pretty much 95% certain that if the TV was ordered on a gift card then that is where the refund will have to go if it's cancelled - unless Currys agree otherwise.

 

That's what I understand the legislation to say.

 

And I don't think a court would say any different regarding principles of contract law as the argument would be that if Parliament had wanted the consumer to be able to insist on a cash refund, then Parliament would have put that in the legislation.  But they didn't.

 

The price of a giftcard may be cheaper if it gives you a discount, but the cost is that you can't exchange it for cash.

[BankFodder]

Yes I had a reread of the consumer rights act – and if one applies the act then you are probably right.

However, the consumer rights act only adds to the existing contract law. It doesn't replace it.

In other words if you decide not to assert your rights under the act but instead simply to rely on your common law contractual rights then they would be obliged to refund you your expectation loss.
There is no doubt about this and it's a question of calculating which is the most advantageous way to proceed.

The consumer rights act would be less complicated because the remedies are clear and so Currys would be less likely to want to resist it in court. However, if the amount of extra money – the expectation loss is sufficiently large, then you would definitely be worth confronting them in court – and I think it would be a win.

[jasonc488]

No, I definitely would only want the value of what I paid for the gift card. Nothing more and nothing less. 

My only gripe is that this is the type of customer service I receive in spending my money with them, it really is beyond poor. 

[BankFodder]

Are you saying that you want the value of the gift card in money – or you simply want a new gift card?

If you want the value of the gift card in money, then that is the one that is going to be difficult and you will have to force them in a court action because you will be asserting basic contract law principles.

If you want the new gift card – then that will be reasonably straightforward but probably not completely trouble-free.

[jasonc488]

I would just want what I paid for the gift card, my original spend back. Just to purchase the TV elsewhere. I'm not here to make some extra money, just i don't want to depart with my money with some company who don't value their customers.

I've never had an issue with Currys in the past, I thought the stories I read were really only related to their black friday problem. I'm guessing not now . Looks like its their company values.

[Manxman in exile]

I don't think you've got any hope of getting a cash refund on the giftcard. 

 

It was your choice to buy it and Currys aren't preventing you from redeeming it - despite their crap customer service.

 

I can't think of any giftcard you can exchange for cash or get a refund on.  But  by all means try. 

 

(I recently tried to get M&S to extend the expiry date on a gift card that I'd been given and had stupidly let expire.  They weren't interested.  I don't know why people use giftcards even from reputable traders like M&S).

 

 

[BankFodder]

I disagree.

 

Please monitor this thread for a  reply tomorrow

[Manxman in exile]

I wonder if there may be some confusion here... ?

 

BankFodder - I don't think the OP is claiming any loss of bargain or loss of value.  There is (I think!) no difference between the value of the TV and the amount charged to the giftcard.  The TV was £1300 (or whatever) and that is the amount debited against the giftcard.  And it's what Currys want to refund to the giftcard - plus £20 next day delivery.

 

Where the OP said:  "Because the value of the purchase was more via giftcard for the TV"  I'm assuming he meant that of the total amount of purchase (ie price of TV + next day delivery), that the larger proportion was the value of the TV (paid by giftcard) and not the next day delivery charge (paid by debit card).

 

For this reason (ie that by far the larger proportion of the purchase was paid by giftcard) Currys are arguing that they can refund the total price to the giftcard.  (Personally I think there is an argument for the next day delivery to be refunded to the debit card, but is it worth arguing for £20?)

 

If I'm correct, does that alter your view as to what the OP is entitled to?

 

I think it would be very difficult to establish that somebody who has paid by giftcard should be entitled to a refund in cash (or anything other than a giftcard).  One of the major characteristics of most (if not all) giftcards is that they can't be redeemed with the supplier for cash.  In fact there's no point in retailers selling giftcards if they can be redeemed for cash.

 

It'll be in the T&Cs and a challenge against Currys in common law would fail on that wouldn't it?

Edited February 17, 2021 by Manxman in exile

[BankFodder]

No that's my understanding as well. I don't think that he is trying to claim anything over the value of the gift card. However I do understand that paying with the gift card entitled the OP to some kind of discount on the TV.
It's never been explained what the face value of the gift card was against the face value of the TV. Maybe the OP could tell us. I'd also be interested to know how the gift card came into his possession

However, I understand that the OP says that he doesn't want any more dealings with Currys – and so he wants to extricate himself from the gift card and get cash instead.

Where I disagree with @Manxman in exile is that simply because it was the OP's choice to use the gift card to purchase the TV, doesn't mean that he shouldn't be entitled to a cash refund.
If the contract had proceeded correctly then I agree that any refund would have had to have been made to the gift card. For instance, if the OP had simply decided to use the 14 day cooling off period because it was a distance purchase, then it's absolutely correct. The refund would have been made to the gift card.
 

If the OP wants to rely on his consumer rights under the 2015 act, then my reading of the act now leads me to believe that he should probably accept reimbursement in the same form that the price of the TV was originally paid. In other words, if the TV was paid for with a gift card, then probably the reimbursement should be to the gift card. (I'm saying "probably" – because I'm not convinced and I don't find it very satisfactory that Currys can breach their contract and still benefit from hanging onto the money and obliging the OP to continue to purchase from them)

However, I'm quite sure that if the OP simply wants to rely on his ordinary contractual rights – which have not been replaced by the 2015 Act – then the OP would be entitled to a cash reimbursement and if he was going to go that way any might as well go for his full expectation loss which would be the face value of the TV – rather than the face value of the gift card.

Of course it's up to the OP.

The easiest route will be simply to accept a new gift card and then to spend on another TV.
The next easiest route would be to accept the value of the gift card in cash.
The most difficult route would be to force Currys to pay the face value of the TV (the expectation loss).

From my point of view, I would love to see the third route chosen simply because I'm curious to see how it would pan out and it would be a very interesting exercise. Of course, it might not be in the OP's best interests and it depends how sporty he feels about the whole thing.

Whatever the situation, there is not a huge risk. The value of the gift card is safe and we are only talking about the form of the reimbursement and whether a bit extra should be added on top to reflect the value of the TV

[AndyOrch]

Quote

How do I use my gift card or eGift card?

All of our gift cards can be redeemed in store or online. During the checkout process under the gift card section you will be asked to enter your gift card number and pin.

The first 6 digits of your gift card number will be pre populated. You will need to enter the remaining digits. Scratch off the silver foil to reveal your gift card pin number on gift cards, or the 4 digit pin number displayed on eGift cards.

Once you have inputted your gift card number and pin and selected add, your available balance to use will be displayed. You can amend the balance by clicking edit.

If you don't use the full value of your gift card, the remaining balance will be left on your card. The expiry period for the card is detailed on the reverse of the card. See below for terms and conditions for your card.

If you return your product which has been purchased by gift card you will receive a refund back to a gift card. In most instances a new gift card will be sent to you.

 

What will happen if I return something I bought with a gift card?

If a transaction paid for by gift card is refunded, the value will be refunded back onto a gift card. If the refund takes place after you receive your confirmation email you will be issued with a new gift card.

 

Terms & Conditions

8. The card cannot be exchanged for cash.

 

https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/help-and-services/ways-to-pay/gift-cards-6-commercial.html

[BankFodder]

Yes of course. Those are Currys own terms and conditions and of course that's exactly what they would say. You wouldn't expect anything else.

However, it's completely silent as to the conditions under which the item is being returned.

Once again, there's no doubt in my mind that if you return the item simply because you have changed your mind and you are using the 14 day cooling off period – then yes, you would have to accept the refund to your gift card.

However, if the item is being returned because of a breach of contract then I think it changes everything. I think that there is a basis for saying that insistence by Currys only to refund the gift card in the event that there is a breach of contract – particularly a fundamental breach of contract – is an unfair term and unenforceable.

Standard terms and conditions in retailer contracts which seek to protect their position should always be regarded with great suspicion.

[Manxman in exile]

It says in the opening post that he bought the giftcard himself - so that is something he chose to do.  Then, when the first TV was faulty, it would appear from the OP that Currys offered either a refund to his "bank" or to a giftcard.  Again he chose the giftcard(!).

 

Why the OP chose to actually buy a giftcard for the original purchase rather than some other method, I don't know*, but I don't think he mentions anywhere getting a discount with the giftcard - but I may be mistaken.

 

As far as I can see(?) the first mention of a "discount" is in #9, but that's not the OP (and I think results from the possible confusion I referred to in my last post):  "If you bought a £1300 TV using a £1000 gift card, then that effectively means that you had a reasonable expectation of obtaining an item worth £1300."

 

I don't have a problem with the OP trying to get cash out of Currys, but if it got to a court I'm having difficulty seeing it succeed.  Even if the OP tries to go down the common law route rather than the Consumer Rights Act route, he is surely going to be defeated by the T&Cs of the purchase (he chose to make) of the giftcard?

 

I don't know of any giftcard that can be redeemed by or exchanged for cash from the supplier.  To allow that would strike at the very foundation of the commercial raison d'etre for giftcards.

 

Plus the OP made the original conscious decision to purchase the giftcard himself in the first place, and then took the first refund on the giftcard anyway! 

 

*(If, and I say if, the OP did enjoy some discount using the giftcard that he would not have got with cash, then perhaps there is an argument that he is entitled to the value of the discount in cash, but I can't see a hope in hell of him getting the majority of the whole giftcard purchase refunded in cash).

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Manxman in exile
clarify

[BankFodder]

I don't disagree with you on any of the facts.

I only disagree with you on the legal effect of it all.

As I think I've already pointed out, nothing will be quick. The easiest thing would be for the OP to wait for the replacement TV.

[jasonc488]

Thanks for the replies, it's really interesting to see the discussions in place. 

 

Yes, I did get a discount on the card. The card cost about £1,210. And that would be what I would like to get back if I need to go down that route. 

 

I'm not wanting any more than what I paid. I'm guessing it's just how I've been messed about and the customer service is non-existent. 

 

But I see where I stand and that's what I was trying to find out.