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Lloyds chasing Personal Guarantee.


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HI, 

 

another one ive been keeping at bay since last march 2020

 

lloyds are demanding a payment under a guarantee - for a loan and an overdraft

 

1) overdraft of 5000 was in existence before guarantee etc, so as i see it guarantees cant be given in past consideration - i will fight them to the end on this 

2) loan was at same time of guarantee doc, its presented as a short form guarantee, the word 'deed' is only used near a signatory line in tiny writing- you do not know its a deed unless you see that tiny writing 

 

ive complained over the year, its not a deed doesnt satisfy points of a deed, and received date is faded out completely 

asked many times for proof when it was 'delivered'

 

now they finally come back after many months, saying we recognise as a deed, because of that tiny writing

it doesnt need to be delivered date of signature is enough 

 

where do i go from here 

i can definitely argue about past consideration , cant guarantee something already in existence - or are overdrafts different.

 

 

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  • Andyorch changed the title to Lloyds chasing Personal Guarantee.

Topic moved to Lloyds Bank  forum.

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You are quite right about past consideration – but on the other hand, are they able to point to something new which they did in return for this guarantee. For instance, can they say that they were about to call in the loan but the provision by you of the guarantee change their mind.

I suggest that you send them an SAR.

Also, maybe you can give us a better idea of what the story is all about. You are pretty scant on detail

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we folded a business last march, so obviously over the last year ive dealt with the fallout.

 

ive been tooing and froing with lloyds for a year

overdraft on liquidation 5k

loan on liquidation balance 14k

 

honestly dont remember giving guarantee, but this was when the manager had stole all our money and i was running around like a headless chicken.

i could have sworn, we didt (i tend to remember when i do it)

 

they eventually provided poor copy of 'short form guarantee' 

its dated well after overdraft- so im definitely going to argue past consideration no consideration, if i can 

was going to use the usual defences for guarantee to loan-

 

however they are saying its a deed- its not called a deed or any words used to that affect at all, just 

signed as deed above signature line, they cant tell me when it was sent back or delivered

 

i really dont see it as a deed, or didnt realise it was

 

i need to come up with a reason why its not legally valid or organise a payment plan, as i dint know how much longer i can keep them at bay.

 

my husband for sure can use para 49 of the etridge principles to set aside his signature as unenforceable,

but i dont know what my options are

 

its a tiny thing - 3 pages long thing 

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Is it witnessed?

I'm not sure that the deed needs consideration to make it binding.

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yes - i got an employee to sign both boxes and took it home for my husband to sign later , as he was working away

my problem is i had no intention to sign a 'deed' 

 

its called a short form guarantee , it refers to itself as guarantee and agreement though out, literally only deed word 

is 'signed as a deed' in writing 2mm high above signature line

 

 

my only pick up on its construction is the 'bank' is defined as such:

 

'Bank'  'inlcudes any person or entity to whom all or any of the rights of the bank under this guarantee are transferred.'

 

 

shouldnt is say 'bank'

 -lloyds pox box xx company no xxxx etc , 

 

its almost too broad, saying we guarantee payment to any person or entity to whom all or any of the rights of the 'bank under' this guarantee are transferred.

 

who has the rights of the 'bank under the guarantee

 

who are we supposed to be guaranteeing ? no narrative is given anywhere you are guaranteeing 

lloyds bank 

 

this definition has got me stumped

 

 

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Firstly, the witness signature is meant to witness the signature of the guarantor.

You are saying that the witness signature was put in place before the guarantor signed. Of course this would invalidate the document as a deed – but on the other hand, you presented the guarantee as properly executed.
So if you use this argument, I think that they would be right to suggest that you had executed a fraudulent deed.

Although the word "deed" was apparently very small, I think you would be hard pressed.

Because it is a deed, I don't think there is a need for consideration to support it.

I'm sorry to say that I think you may be clutching at straws

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