Cabot/Mortimer claimform - old 2003 Lloyds Loan -stayed - Now n244 to lift stay-Summary Judgment

[sxam]

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot

 

Date of issue –  29 January 2021

  

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

1.By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the Defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (‘the Agreement’) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

2.The Defendant did not  pay the instalments as they fell due. 

 

3.The Agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant therefore claims £8704.42 and costs.

  

What is the total value of the claim? £9214.42
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes however I failed to send the PAP back. I only sent a letter saying the account is in dispute for failing to fulfil CCA request. PAP they send was for £3200, however their claim is almost three times that.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? yes

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Loan, however I cannot find the amount on any of the communication.
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In Branch
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser (Cabot, through Mortimer Clarke)
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Unsure
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? They failed to supply CCA 

 

What was the date of your last payment? August 2017
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Give answer here
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes, I was on debt management plan until September 2017. I stopped all payment from the time they failed to comply with my CCA request.

 

...............................................

 

 

Hi all,

 

I have been silently following this forum for sometime as I was in lot of debt in and around 2003 and I was with Euro Debt paying token payments

 

. With lot of information from this site, I started sending CCA request to my creditors in September 2017. I was in debt management plant until then. I stopped all token payment from September 2017, since all of them failed to comply with my request.

 

 I have been getting letters and threat-o-gram from different DCA, that didn't bother me much.

 

Now I received claim form for one of my debt.

I do not acknowledge this debt which is in the region of £8700

 

. I did receive PAP from their solicitor on 16th December but the amount on the PAP was for £3200.

 

I failed to reply to the PAP (apologies for my ignorance) as I didn't think it was necessary as they never sent me the agreement. I simply wrote a letter to them saying account is in dispute for failing to supply agreement.

 

My answers for the questions below.

Please suggest how I should take this forward.

Appreciate your help.

Thank you.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

 

[sxam]

Thank you dx,

Do I again send CCA request even though I sent it back in September 2017? Cabot replied saying they don't have it and they need to request it from Lloyds, but I have never heard back since then. 

 

Problem I have is, I only had one loan with Lloyds and Apex is dealing with this debt.

Cabot took over Lloyds credit card debt in the region of £2900.

They sent PAP for £3200 but now claim is for £8700.

The sums do not add up.

 

I will acknowledge the claim and send them CPR letter.

 

Once again, appreciate your help. Thank you.

[dx100uk]

and a CCA.

 

apex are a powerless dca why are you blindly paying them anything!!

a dca is not a bailiff!!

 

start a new topic on it .

 

[sxam]

Hi Dx,

 

I haven't paid any penny to any DCA since 2017. Apex gone quiet since they could not produce an agreement. Reason I mentioned Apex on this thread is because they are the only DCA dealing with Lloyds Loan. So this claim from Cabot does not make any sense, the amount is wrong, debt type is wrong etc

 

I will pop in CCA along with CPR. I have already done the AOS.

[dx100uk]

well the debt might have been sold since then

Apex dont buy debts

they only operate from their stated client as ambulance chasers.

 

have you moved in recent times and not informed people?

 

[sxam]

I haven't moved for sometime now and they always wrote me on the current address. Probably Apex sold it to Cabot. Probably CPR reply might shed some light.

[dx100uk]

apex don't buy debt

they only chase for their stated clients...said that in above post

 

so who was their client?

probably not still the original creditor as it was from 2003 and i bet sold by lloyds around the time of the default in ??

 

[sxam]

It looks like Apex gave the account back to Lloyds after my CCA request. Lloyds then passed it on to Cabot but I never received a letter of assignment nor have I received PAP for this amount.

 

Now my question is, I did AOS yesterday, does 14 days starts from tomorrow to file the defence or I still get 33 days from the date on the claim form?

[dx100uk]

 

as in post 2......

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

^^

[sxam]

Thank you DX, not far away from filing the defence. This is what I have prepared for now. Can you please caste your eye over to see if this is all good to file?

Cheers.

 

 

Particular Of claim

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (“the agreement”) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the defendant monies.

 

2. The defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due. The agreement was terminated following service of a default notice.

 

3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

4. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS:

1) £8704.42

2) COSTS

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) - Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

1.I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.

 

2.However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.

 

3. However I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. However, I do not recall ever receiving letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 78 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.

 

6. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

[dx100uk]

On 06/02/2021 at 14:33, sxam said:

I did receive PAP from their solicitor on 16th December but the amount on the PAP was for £3200.

 

I failed to reply to the PAP (apologies for my ignorance) as I didn't think it was necessary as they never sent me the agreement. I simply wrote a letter to

 

You also need to remove the repeated use of however.

 

Ive added para no's to their poc above too to make it easier

Dx

[sxam]

Thank you DX,

 

PAP received was was for completely different amount with different reference, should I say i received PAP or can i decline receiving it? There was nothing to suggest the PAP was for this debt.

Edited June 15, 2022 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[dx100uk]

really... so no link with any same ref number nor creditor etc etc.

do you still have it?
 

[sxam]

Hi Dx

 

PAP received was for current account overdraft and was for £3220. this claim is for Loan amounting to £8770.

 

Old PAP Return.pdf

[dx100uk]

[sxam]

Good to go DX? Shall I mention current account PAP or file the defence as above saying no PAP received. 

 

Last day of defence is 3rd of March, Should I leave it till the end and file it or do it now? 

[AndyOrch]

CCA request for loans are section 77 not section 78.....and you will have to mention that they served an invalid PAP with no connection to the their court claim.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

take your time sxam, not due till 4pm the 2nd.

better to get it nice and tight and correct 

[sxam]

 

Thank you Andy/Dx

 

UPDATED Defence, 3 days remaining.

 

Not sure where to mention invalid PAP. I put it under number 5. Please check if this is good to go.

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

1. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.

 

2. However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.

 

3. I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. I do not recall ever receiving a letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.

 

5. Claimant served the invalid PAP with no connection to their court claim,

 

6. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.

 

7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

........................

 

I was going through the defence briefly and saw option for counterclaim. Do I counterclaim? What do i need to pay attention to while filing a defence?

 

Thank you.

[dx100uk]

not due till tuesday by 4pm.

await its checking 1st please as i see thats not 100% right 

 

but not you do not counterclaim.

simply copy and past the text from here into the box after hitting enter defence.

 

slowdown... no rush

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Particular Of claim

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (“the agreement”) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the defendant monies.

 

2. The defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due. The agreement was terminated following service of a default notice.

 

3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

4. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS:

1) £8704.42

2) COSTS

 

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

1.The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is admitted that the claimant has sent details of a current account with an unknown account number but has no connection to this this claim or alleged debt. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the details of alleged debt the claimant refers to nor have they referred to any account number within its particulars. I have therefore sought clarity from the claimant and requested further in formation which at this time they failed to comply to my request.

 

3. Paragraph 2 is noted. However, as above the alleged debt is still unknown and further I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.

 

4.Paragraph 3 is noted. As above as the debt is unknown its immaterial and I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant has failed to comply with either requests and in particular my section 77 request and provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of my request and is prevented from enforcing the agreement they wish to rely on.

 

7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sxam]

Cheers Andy. really appreciated. 

[sxam]

Andy, Dx,

 

defence has been filed, now what I need to do or prepare & what should I expect?

[AndyOrch]

Have a read of concluded topics in our Legal Success Forum...then you will be familiar with the process and what comes next.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/129-legal-successes/