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    • My final ticket:      1.      The original Claimant agreed to undertake building work (Project 1) at the original Defendant/now Part 20 Counterclaimant’s property in relation to 3 specific areas of work for an agreed price of £4300.  The work was:   a. To underpin the bay window at the property, b. To replace and repair a previously-removed chimney breast and, c. To install a new beam to the patio door.   2.      It was agreed that Project 1 was to be carried out under the instructions of a structural engineer engaged by the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant and that the Claimant’s work would be as a result of instructions received following the structural engineer's assessment of the property.   3.      Between June and July in 2020 the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant provided the Claimant with a full copy of the structural engineer's report which detailed instructions to the Claimant for the works to be carried out.   4.      It was agreed between the parties that the works would commence on 13 August 2020.   5.      It was agreed between the parties that payments for Project 1 would be made in three instalments. The first payment would be made at the start of the Claimant's work. The second payment would be paid at the halfway point of the Claimant's work. The final payment would be made on completion of the total works.   6.      The Claimant commenced work on 13 August 2020 and the first instalment due was paid.     7.      On 24 August 2020 the Claimant asked the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant to arrange an inspection of his work by the Building Control Inspector.  The Claimant also stated that Project 1 was approaching mid-way and the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant paid the second instalment due.   8.      The Building Inspector arrived to inspect the Claimant’s work but the Claimant was absent.  The inspector was obviously very displeased by the standard of the Claimant's work.  The inspector spoke to the Claimant by telephone, asking him why he was absent and interrogating him about the work he had done.  The inspector then gave him some instructions over the telephone and also left a list of instructions with the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant to be passed on to the builder.  The building inspector then said he would be getting in touch with the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant’s structural engineer with his findings and the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant should hear from the engineer soon.   9.      The Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant passed on the Building Inspector’s instructions to the Claimant who agreed to follow them.   10.  The structural engineer visited and recommended piling to complete the underpinning for Project 1.  The Claimant explained that he could not undertake this work. The structural engineer then suggested an alternative company to the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant to do the necessary work and this company was engaged by the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant to complete the necessary piling at an additional cost to the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant of £3000. (See receipt at Exhbibit-1).   11.  The Claimant asked if the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant needed any more work to be done and, despite the problems encountered on Project 1, the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant agreed on 7 September 2020 to have more work done (Project 2) at an agreed price of £2580 and on similar payment terms to Project 1.   12.  As work commenced on Project 2 and was continued on the remaining work for Project 1, the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant had occasion to make several complaints to the Claimant regarding the standard of his work.   13.   Barely a week after starting on Project 2, the Claimant demanded payment for that work.  After a period of negotiation the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant paid the Claimant £1500 in cash.  Both parties agreed that this left a balance outstanding on Project 2 of £1080.   14.  It later came to the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant’s attention that the Claimant had removed material (including a steel beam) from the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant’s property that the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant suspects either belonged to him or had been paid for by him in connection with Project 1.  When the Claimant challenged admitted he had done this.  The Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant has included the value of this material in his counterclaim detailed below.   15.    On 21 September 2020 the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant highlighted and sent a snagging list to the Claimant (Exhbibit-2).  Over a month later the Claimant sent an employee to attend to this work.  It was not carried out satisfactorily and resulted in an updated snagging list being sent to the claimant (Exhibit -3).  All of this snagging work remains undone by the Claimant.   16.  Apart from the outstanding snagging work referred to in para 16 above, the Claimant also left other work from Projects 1 and 2 uncompleted.  That work which was not completed is listed at ( Exhibit 4.)   17.  During the course of carrying out work on Projects 1 and 2 the Claimant also negligently caused substantial damage to the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant’s property (as itemised in  Exhibit-5) by not executing the work with the skill expected of a reasonable tradesman.   18.  The Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant seeks an order from the court directing the Claimant to pay to the Defendant/Part 20 Counterclaimant the sum of £16,577.12 in respect of:   (a)   the cost of the piling referred to in para 10 above which the Claimant could not undertake and another contractor had to be paid to complete; (b)   the cost of completing work the Claimant had left undone from Projects 1 and 2 referred to in para 16 above; (c)   the cost of remedial work to put right the damage negligently caused by the Claimant and referred to in para 17 above. (d). the cost of the steel beam referred to in para 14 above put down as estimated.   A receipts in respect of 3 items (a) - see Attachment 1 – Page-4-8 for:   (i) £3,000.00 GTM piling,                                                      (ii) Rubble truck £387.12                                                     (iii) £250.00 to Mellor the roofer   The two priced quotes in respect of items (b) (1) Cheshire Bespoke Building Limited for £5,190.00,  and (2) Mellor Roofing Specialist. (c) – see Attachments 6 and 7 - are attached in support of this counterclaim.     The defendant/Part 20 counterclaimant is claiming 8% interest under the County Courts Act 1984 from the 26 October 2020 which was the last day the       STATEMENT OF TRUTH   I believe that the facts stated in this particulars of counterclaim are true. I understand that proceedings for contempt of court may be brought against anyone who makes, or causes to be made, a false statement in a document verified by a statement of truth without an honest belief in its truth.’.    
    • I can't say for certain whether it is all paid up but it certainly suggests that you are getting any more trouble in the future. However, come back to us if they start writing
    • See if they chase you then??   Dx
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Cabot court claim - 2003 Lloyds Loan


sxam
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Hi all,

 

I have been silently following this forum for sometime as I was in lot of debt in and around 2003 and I was with Euro Debt paying token payments

 

. With lot of information from this site, I started sending CCA request to my creditors in September 2017. I was in debt management plant until then. I stopped all token payment from September 2017, since all of them failed to comply with my request.

 

 I have been getting letters and threat-o-gram from different DCA, that didn't bother me much.

 

Now I received claim form for one of my debt.

I do not acknowledge this debt which is in the region of £8700

 

. I did receive PAP from their solicitor on 16th December but the amount on the PAP was for £3200.

 

I failed to reply to the PAP (apologies for my ignorance) as I didn't think it was necessary as they never sent me the agreement. I simply wrote a letter to them saying account is in dispute for failing to supply agreement.

 

My answers for the questions below.

Please suggest how I should take this forward.

Appreciate your help.

Thank you.

 

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot

 

Date of issue –  29 January 2021

  

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? 

1.By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the Defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (‘the Agreement’) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the Defendant monies.

 

2.The Defendant did not  pay the instalments as they fell due. 

 

3.The Agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice.

 

4.The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant therefore claims £8704.42 and costs.

  

What is the total value of the claim? £9214.42
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? Yes however I failed to send the PAP back. I only sent a letter saying the account is in dispute for failing to fulfil CCA request. PAP they send was for £3200, however their claim is almost three times that.
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? Yes
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? yes

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Loan, however I cannot find the amount on any of the communication.
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Yes
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? In Branch
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser (Cabot, through Mortimer Clarke)
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Yes 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Unsure
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? They failed to supply CCA 

 

What was the date of your last payment? August 2017
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Give answer here
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? Yes, I was on debt management plan until September 2017. I stopped all payment from the time they failed to comply with my CCA request.

 

 

 

 

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you dx,

Do I again send CCA request even though I sent it back in September 2017? Cabot replied saying they don't have it and they need to request it from Lloyds, but I have never heard back since then. 

 

Problem I have is, I only had one loan with Lloyds and Apex is dealing with this debt.

Cabot took over Lloyds credit card debt in the region of £2900.

They sent PAP for £3200 but now claim is for £8700.

The sums do not add up.

 

I will acknowledge the claim and send them CPR letter.

 

Once again, appreciate your help. Thank you.

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and a CCA.

 

apex are a powerless dca why are you blindly paying them anything!!

a dca is not a bailiff!!

 

start a new topic on it .

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dx,

 

I haven't paid any penny to any DCA since 2017. Apex gone quiet since they could not produce an agreement. Reason I mentioned Apex on this thread is because they are the only DCA dealing with Lloyds Loan. So this claim from Cabot does not make any sense, the amount is wrong, debt type is wrong etc

 

I will pop in CCA along with CPR. I have already done the AOS.

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well the debt might have been sold since then

Apex dont buy debts

they only operate from their stated client as ambulance chasers.

 

have you moved in recent times and not informed people?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I haven't moved for sometime now and they always wrote me on the current address. Probably Apex sold it to Cabot. Probably CPR reply might shed some light.

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apex don't buy debt

they only chase for their stated clients...said that in above post

 

so who was their client?

probably not still the original creditor as it was from 2003 and i bet sold by lloyds around the time of the default in ??

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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It looks like Apex gave the account back to Lloyds after my CCA request. Lloyds then passed it on to Cabot but I never received a letter of assignment nor have I received PAP for this amount.

 

Now my question is, I did AOS yesterday, does 14 days starts from tomorrow to file the defence or I still get 33 days from the date on the claim form?

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as in post 2......

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............

^^

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thank you DX, not far away from filing the defence. This is what I have prepared for now. Can you please caste your eye over to see if this is all good to file?

Cheers.

 

 

Particular Of claim

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (“the agreement”) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the defendant monies.

 

2. The defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due. The agreement was terminated following service of a default notice.

 

3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

4. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS:

1) £8704.42

2) COSTS

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) - Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.

 

1.I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.

 

2.However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.

 

3. However I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.

 

4. However, I do not recall ever receiving letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.

 

5. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 78 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.

 

6. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-

 

a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement ; and

b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,

d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

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On 06/02/2021 at 14:33, sxam said:

I did receive PAP from their solicitor on 16th December but the amount on the PAP was for £3200.

 

I failed to reply to the PAP (apologies for my ignorance) as I didn't think it was necessary as they never sent me the agreement. I simply wrote a letter to

 

You also need to remove the repeated use of however.

 

Ive added para no's to their poc above too to make it easier

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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13 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

 

You also need to remove the repeated use of however.

 

Ive added para no's to their poc above too to make it easier

Dx

Thank you DX,

 

PAP received was was for completely different amount with different reference, should I say i received PAP or can i decline receiving it? There was nothing to suggest the PAP was for this debt.

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really... so no link with any same ref number nor creditor etc etc.

do you still have it?
 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

:rockon:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Good to go DX? Shall I mention current account PAP or file the defence as above saying no PAP received. 

 

Last day of defence is 3rd of March, Should I leave it till the end and file it or do it now? 

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CCA request for loans are section 77 not section 78.....and you will have to mention that they served an invalid PAP with no connection to the their court claim.

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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take your time sxam, not due till 4pm the 2nd.

better to get it nice and tight and correct 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you Andy/Dx

 

UPDATED Defence, 3 days remaining.

 

Not sure where to mention invalid PAP. I put it under number 5. Please check if this is good to go.

 

Defence
 
The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.
 
The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.
 
1. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.
 
2. However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.
 
3. I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
 
4. I do not recall ever receiving a letter of assignment from the Lloyds Banking group advising the debt was assigned to the claimant.
 
5. Claimant served the invalid PAP with no connection to their court claim,
 
6. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant failed to provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of said request.
 
7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-
 
a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,
d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;
 
By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
 
 

 

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I was going through the defence briefly and saw option for counterclaim. Do I counterclaim? What do i need to pay attention to while filing a defence?

 

Thank you.

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not due till tuesday by 4pm.

await its checking 1st please as i see thats not 100% right 

 

but not you do not counterclaim.

simply copy and past the text from here into the box after hitting enter defence.

 

slowdown... no rush

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Particular Of claim

 

1. By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (“the agreement”) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the defendant monies.

 

2. The defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due. The agreement was terminated following service of a default notice.

 

3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant.

 

4. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS:

1) £8704.42

2) COSTS

 

 

Defence

 

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.
 
1.The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is admitted that the claimant has sent details of a current account with an unknown account number but has no connection to this this claim or alleged debt. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.
 
2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the details of alleged debt the claimant refers to nor have they referred to any account number within its particulars. I have therefore sought clarity from the claimant and requested further in formation which at this time they failed to comply to my request.
 
3. Paragraph 2 is noted. However, as above the alleged debt is still unknown and further I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.
 
4.Paragraph 3 is noted. As above as the debt is unknown its immaterial and I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
 
5. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant has failed to comply with either requests and in particular my section 77 request and provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of my request and is prevented from enforcing the agreement they wish to rely on.
 
7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-
 
a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears,
d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;
 
By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
 
 
 
.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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