Ryanair Cancelled Return Flight

[The Scourge of Ryanair]

*claim

[webbscatering]

if I'm not entitled to compensation what about reimbursement?

[Kyosanto]

I'm not sure to be honest, and it will depend on what you have done and communicated to them. Not simply what they communicated to you.

 

Ryanair offered you a choice. Did you actively try to get Ryanair to reroute you? Did you state that intention in writing to them at the time? In the event you did not, did you keep evidence of your phone calls / empty desk at the airport, so that at least you can argue it was impossible for you to ask them to be rerouted? (Not the first time I'm asking you these specific questions!)

 

 

Did Ryanair offer you a full refund, did you have a choice to accept it, and did you receive it yet?

 

If Ryanair offered you a reroute and didn't provide it, they could be in breach of contract, and someone here will be able to advise you. I would certainly try and send them bill, but you need the evidence on your side to use as ammo.

 

If it's a case of you never asked them for a rerouting (yes, i know it's frustrating when they don't pick up the phone...) and you accepted their refund, then I wouldn't bet on you to win. That said I know nothing of SCC claims so perhaps Scourge of Ryanair can be of more help to you.

 

[webbscatering]

We put in a claim for Reimbursements for out of pocket expenses and compensation being honest I'm not interested in the compensation but the out of pocket expenses.

No we didn't take pictures of the empty desk but yes we have evidence we tried to call them by our phone logs.

No contact could be made with Ryanair by phone as it would redirect us to the website to rebook at a much later date then our scheduled flight.

Ryanair offered a partial refund for our flight by way of a voucher but nothing other than that.

Ryanair did not offer a reroute, their website stated there was a flight out on the 19th November, which was top late because I was still working during the second lockdown this is why I had to take the safe route home avoiding countries that would otherwise make me quarantine.

I firmly believe Ryanair abandon us when it was their duty to get us back to the UK safely.

 

Loving the advice keep it coming

 

[Kyosanto]

Outrageous....

in the very least they owe you by law a full refund of the entire inbound fare + extras and taxes, and not in voucher form. If they refuse to give you that, are you able to recover it from the CC company? This seems like the easiest way to get some money back in the near future.

Some here may or may not advise against grabbing the quick cash in case you intend to claim for reimbursement, due to the fact Ryanair will use the fact you were refunded as an attempt to say the contract was completed. 

About your last statement I have to contradict you as it was not Ryanair's duty to get you back to the UK safely. Ryanair doesn't do duty or responsibility Their holiday branch is not even ATOL registered so that's how much they care about returning ppl home safely. They just sold you 2 one-way bus tickets, as this is their business model.

However you might yet have them on breach of contract. They entered a contract with you where you were due either a re-routing OR a full refund, and very clearly you have not received neither. Will let one of the legal experts advise here with your letter of claims but I suggest you start drafting it and prepare receipts.

Good luck if/when you decide to take this further.
 

Edited March 22, 2021 by Kyosanto
Edit: changed "return" to "inbound" to be crystal clear that these are 2 separate tickets and you are due refund for one.

[webbscatering]

I think to get my out of pocket expenses it would be better to go through the insurance and I know dx will tell me off for this but to use Bott & Co the claim firm that have a good success rate with Ryanair to try get my compensation...like previously mentioned I'm not concerned about the compo but to get my out of pocket expenses back or at least most of it.

 

if I post the insurance claim form will you guys scan over it and see what the chances are?

 

[The Scourge of Ryanair]

Reimbursement for your expenses due to re-routing depends on when you told Ryanair that you were doing that and whether or not you opted for a refund.

 

When Ryanair let me down, the first thing I do is to submit a £0 claim saying "I am re-routing with XYZ Airline and will claim later as I cannot get hold of your customer services (who close at 1800)".  I am now exercising my EU261 rights.  Never ask for a refund of your ticket otherwise they have discharged their responsibilities.

 

So what was the sequence of your calls / claims?

[webbscatering]

Looks like I did none of the above, so I have basically gave up rights to any claim by not informing them I was rerouting. 
I’ll try an insurance claim see if I get any joy with that.

[Kyosanto]

If you file an insurance claim, you have to obtain a refund from Ryanair first or they will fob you off (It even says so in the claim form you uploaded).

Get Ryanair to refund your voucher in cash. Give them an ultimatum and recover from CC if you don't get a response.

I'm surprised you have a travel insurance that covers Covid related cancellations! Thought most insurers had explicitly dropped those.

[webbscatering]

Okay will do, thanks 

[The Scourge of Ryanair]

If I were to guess, Ryanair will reject your claim due to not giving them a chance to re-route you and because the pandemic is an extraordinary circumstance.  You can fight the former but looking at your facts, you may struggle to beat the latter.

 

Look at Ryanair terms and conditions relating to "Right to Reimbursement or Re-Routing".  It does not state that you have to tell them anything, only that you have the right.  That is a basis to fight a rejection on the grounds that you did not give them the chance to re-route you.

[webbscatering]

Just looking at the Insurance Claim Form, Not applying a claim for the Ryanair flights but only for my out of pocket expenses would give this claim a better chance of success.

So my out of pocket expenses are:

One Way flights to Athens

Two nights accomodation

Flights to the UK

Taxi Fare from Gatwick to Stansted

 

I will try Visa first then try the insurance claim if not successful.

 

I took this from the EU261 Sheet:

FLIGHT CANCELLATION

If your flight is cancelled, you are entitled to the rights set out below (see following sections 1.; 2.; and 3.). As regards your right to compensation, please note that Ryanair is entitled to refuse compensation when:

1.you are informed of the cancellation at least two weeks before the scheduled time of departure; NO

2.you are informed of the cancellation between two weeks and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and reach your final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; NO

3.you are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival; NO

4.we can prove that the cancellation is caused by extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures had been taken by Ryanair, including not limited to political instability, safety and security reasons, weather disruption, labour disputes or failure or delay of air traffic control facilities.

Excert from the CAA website

Please note that the CAA’s interpretation of extraordinary circumstances set out above is illustrative and for guidance only, rather than determinative of our view in any specific case that may arise. Each case will be context and fact specific. It should also be recognised that should a passenger or group of passengers disagree with the CAA’s interpretation in a specific case, it is open to them to seek to enforce their rights through the courts. 

 

Still loving the advice guys any comments on the above would be greatly appreciated x

[Kyosanto]

Think we going around in circles a bit now. To summarize:

• No use claiming/quoting EC261. Not applicable to your case as Ryanair will be able to rightly invoke extraordinary circumstances.
• You need to ask for a refund (of the unflown segment only) from Ryanair first, then visa if unsuccesful/no reply, and then your insurer, in this order. The flight was cancelled so you are due one, period. Ryanair not arguing their way out of that. Do not use the voucher if you already received it, and make sure you say clearly that you refuse it.
• You can then claim your out of pocket expenses, from your insurer, assuming that they cover Covid related cancellations. You need to check their T&Cs from your policy for how much you can claim, the excess, whether taxis in the UK would be covered etc..

 

Let us know how you get on with these.

[Kyosanto]

Important to mention that Visa will reject your claim if you don't show that you tried to obtain a refund from the airline first.

 

Also did you check with your insurer for the time limits for making a claim? because we're already 4 months after the facts here and that's getting quite late.

[The Scourge of Ryanair]

The only issue to remember is that once you get a refund, Ryanair have no further responsibilities so you have insurance as your only course of action.

[webbscatering]

this is just a excerpt taken from a legal firms website although does not apply to me it makes interesting reading:-

 

Nevertheless, the respective advice of both the EU Commissioner for Transport and the CAA has emphasised that each cancellation must be assessed on an individual case-by-case basis. This means that airlines cannot use COVID-19 as a blanket excuse for cancellations without compensating passengers. Airlines intending to rely on the ‘extraordinary circumstances’ exemption for COVID-19 related cancellations must be mindful that the burden of proof is on the airlines in such scenarios and of the need to demonstrate, in each case, that:

a) there was a clear link between the extraordinary circumstances and the cancellation; and
b) the cancellation could not have been avoided even if all reasonable measures were taken

[webbscatering]

Something from the Greek CAA

WEBB-RYANAIR-REMINDER-CANCELLATION FR 8583-THESSALONIKI-STANSTED-8-11-2020.pdf

[webbscatering]

Received this email this morning from the Greek Civil Aviation Auth. it looks to me that they are still pursuing Ryanair, I'm not getting my hopes up here because all the advice from you guys have been very accurate. We've resigned to the fact we are getting nothing apart from knowledge and experience.

 

many thanks

 

Greek Aviation Authority.pdf

[The Scourge of Ryanair]

Interesting to note that email address the Greek email used for Ryanair:

 

[email protected]

 

Always useful to see methods of contacting Ryanair that they do publicise but that public authorities seem to use.