VCS/DCB(L) multiple pcn claimform - Smyth Street Pay and Display Car Park Wakefield WF1 1ED.

[Zeppdad 0]

I found this forum yesterday whilst researching how I can defend a County court claim from VCS Ltd.

 

Briefly, a number of PCNs (2017) issued against my wife’s car are being cited in the one claim. 

 

I ‘think’ (from reading on other forums) that VCS are not the ‘Creditor’ (this is Excel Parking) who have a contract with the land owner. I have other information which I’ve researched which sheds light on this.

 

can this forum advise on drafting a defence?  

 

I’ve read @Andyorch advice and- due to the sensitive nature of the values being claimed by VCS and DBL Legal (even in their rounded up amounts), I’m hesitant to publish the amount (it’s several hundred quid!).

 

I appreciate time really is not on my side to create and submit an adequate defence (or indeed, request information from VCS & DBC Legal) but any help, however small, would be hugely appreciated. We’re losing a bit of sleep over this!

 

 

Redacted county court claim details below;

 

Name of the Claimant : Vehicle Control Services Limited, Unit P1, Europa Link, Sheffield Business Park, Sheffield, S9 1XU.

 

Claimants Solicitors: DBC Legal LTD, Direct House, Greenwood Drive, Runcorn, WA7 1UG

 

Date of issue – 04 January 2021

 

Date for AOS - 11 January 2021

 

Date to submit Defence - 05 February 2021

 

 

What is the claim for –  

1.The Defendant (D) is indebted to the Claimant (C) for a Parking Charge (s) issued to vehicle XX at Smyth Street Pay and Display Car Park Wakefield WF1 1ED.

 

2.The PCN details are X.

 

3.The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C.

The vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms an C’s signs (the Contract), thus incurring the PCN(s).

 

4. The driver agreed to pay within 28 days but did not. D is liable as the driver or keeper. Despite requests, the PCN(s) is outstanding. The contract entitles C to damages.

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £XXX being the total of the PCN(s) and damages.

2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £X until judgement or sooner payment.

3. Costs and court fees.   

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

 

Amount Claimed XXX

court fee XX

legal rep costs XX

Total Amount XXX

 

 

ANY support would be MASSIVELY and very Gratefully received. Many many thanks in advance. 

 

 

[dx100uk 9,627]

Put the figures in cant hurt you

Use our std 3 -5 line generic defence and get our ppc cpr 31:14 running to dcb(l)

 

Scan up everything you have in/out letter wise to date, both sides please

Use one multiple page pdf only

Read our upload guide carefully

[Zeppdad 0]

Many thanks for your reply @dx100uk 

 

Will begin the ppc cpr 31:14 to DCB and scan everything when I’m home later. Do I just post onto here? 

 

Amounts;

 

 

AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

1. £480 being the total of the PCN(s) and damages. 2. Interest at a rate of 8% per annum pursuant to s.69 of the County Courts Act 1984 from the date hereof at a daily rate of £0.11 until judgement or sooner payment. 3. Costs and court fees.   

 

What is the value of the claim?

 

Amount Claimed 625.00

court fees 60.00

legal rep fees 70.00

Total Amount 755.00

 

[dx100uk 9,627]

So 3  £100 pcns + £60 unicorn food tax on each one..

[Zeppdad 0]

YUP

 

 

A quick Q; in the CPR 31.14 request which I’m amending to fit the particulars of their claim,  is it worth wording the request in point 1;

 

1. The contract between VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name. OR land registry details confirming VEHICLE CONTROL SERVICES as private land owner. 

 

Asking this because their claim is worded ‘.The PCN(s) was issued on private land owned or managed by C.’

[FTMDave 641]

Don't worry, Simple Simon of VCS/Excel is very well known to the forum, as indeed are his defeats, of which he notched up another brace only last week.

 

There is time to 5 February and as dx says, the defence need only be very short.  Get CPR off today and upload the correspondence in PDF when you can.  Just follow our upload guide.

 

A few questions.

 

1.  Briefly, what went on, how did your wife get three tickets?

 

2.  Is the person they are suing also the same person who was driving on the day?

 

3.  Did she receive a Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action?

 

4.  Is this car park local to you?  If so it would be very useful to see pix of the signage.  You heavily hint that Simple Simon has mixed up Excel with VCS, and this has been fatal to him in court many times.

[dx100uk 9,627]

just send the cpr as is

 

dx

[Zeppdad 0]

 

Thanks so much for your reassuring words @FTMDave 

And @dx100uk- Many thanks for CPR advice.

 

1.  Briefly, what went on, how did your wife get three tickets?

2017; the driver (not my wife) parked in a bay that apprehend to be parking (and had parked in that space MANY times). As there was an attendant onsite that day, asked attendant if the space was safe to park “absolutely”. All fine.

Two days later, parked in exactly the same spot. PCN on return to car. 

Received 2 PCN notifications through post with link to photo evidence. Both PCNs showed the car had PCNs attached. None was attached in instance of PCN 1 when driver returned. 

 

Naively appealed to VCS- What an absolute waste of energy. Invariably lost

Naively appealed through IPC- what an absolute waste of energy. Invariably lost. 

(Hindsight is a wonderful thing innit!)

3rd ticket- overstay (by how long I’m not sure but it won’t have been very long!) clocked by APNR.  Ignored PCN (probably not our finest moment). 

 

2.  Is the person they are suing also the same person who was driving on the day?

No.

Driver has never been revealed to VCS.

 

3.  Did she receive a Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action?

Yes. Stupidly ignored it (grimaces!). 

 

4.  Is this car park local to you?  If so it would be very useful to see pix of the signage.  You heavily hint that Simple Simon has mixed up Excel with VCS, and this has been fatal to him in court many times.

 

Quite local to us (8 miles away)-

Currently working on an iPad which is a bit glitchy so will upload a proof of the signage  (supplied by VCS in the appeal process) later.

 

Did a bit of digging; confusing signage (branded with Excel Parking logo) but also states that ‘By entering this private car park you are entering into an agreement with Vehicle Control Services Ltd’ .  The wording across the whole sign seems to jump between Excel and VCS. 

 

Nowhere on signage does it mention either VCS nor Excel being the ‘Creditor’ which I understand (maybe incorrectly?) is a legal must do- and also within the IPC Code of Conduct. 

With all this in mind, I had a look at land registry for that site which noted the owner (a very well know commercial property developer in the Leeds areas) had granted Excel Parking Services Ltd a lease for a term of 6 years from December 2016.  

 

Thoughts?

 

 

[FTMDave 641]

The bad news is that Simple Simon is an arrogant litigious oaf with complete contempt for the law, who is quite prepared to go to a court hearing for one ticket, so surely will for three.  So your wife had better get used to the idea that she'll be in a court hearing.  However, this is likely to be on-line, and even if it was face-to-face a civil court hearing is no more intimidating than a job interview.

 

However, oaves with complete contempt for the law generally have a big problem when they have to explain themselves to an unbiased judge, which is when it usually goes wrong for Simon.  Well done on all the digging you've done.  Simon is suing the wrong person; the wrong company is suing; the signage is pants; then there will probably be all extra goodies re planning permission, POFA, in the first two instances the driver was given permission to park, grace period in the third case, etc., etc.

 

So (1) CPR, (2) post up the correspondence, redacted, (3) draft a defence.  If you look in our PPC Successes thread at the top of the page, and start from the last page of the thread, there will be threads entitled "VCS claimform" or "Excel claimform", all with defences in them.  Use them as the basis for your own, and post a draft up here.

[Zeppdad 0]

As before, thank you @FTMDave for your supportive words, they are very gratefully received :)

 

Attached, the PDF of signage provided by VCS in 2017- what an absolute jumble of words, names and information. 

 

To update; CPR 31.14 request posted to DBL. 

 

I'm still scanning all the correspondence we have but have found three 'NOTICE OF INTENDED COURT PROCEEDINGS' letters from VCS dated August 2017 each stating 'The creditor is: Vehicle Control Services Limited.'

 

 

Smyth Street Signage Proofs.compressed.pdf

[dx100uk 9,627]

game over for simple simon then.

 

all the signs say excel.

the claimant is vcs.

 

i'd be sending him an intimidating letter saying do you really want to go through with this doomed to fail claim and waste your money and pay my costs .

 

signs at the time you sent me say excel

claimant for this claim xxx is VCS....bang bet your foot hurts..

 

idiot!

 

dx

 

[FTMDave 641]

Ho!  Ho!  Ho!

 

To be fair to Simon, there is one sort-of prominent-ish mention of VCS on the signs - as opposed to six for Excel!

 

Normally a defence should be as generic as possible, but I'm musing if this once it would be worth part of the defence stating that the Defendant could not have entered into a contract with the Claimant VCS as the car park is managed by a completely different company.  This might cause a light to come on Simple Simon's skull and push him towards discontinuance.  

[Zeppdad 0]

What I’ve read elsewhere (and from being in touch with someone who has won using the above argument - but who also notes that others have lost using the same argument- it seems to be dependent upon the court/judge) is that it is possible to win BUT I’m not entirely certain if it holds actual legal weight. 

 

@dx100uk write a letter you say? To DBL or VCS?

 

something like this??;

 

I am writing in respect to the above noted County Court Claim issued by your legal team in connection to three separate Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) issued to vehicle registration mark XXXXXX. I was the named keeper of the vehicle at the time of the PCN issue but do not claim liability.

 

I wish you to note the following; whilst you may ‘think’ that you have adequate grounds to make this claim, the simple facts are that you have absolutely no right (in law??) and the evidence I have uncovered as a direct result of your claim, along with the evidence and wording contained in the communications you sent to me (dated XX August 2017) irrefutably show that you (Vehicle Control Services) have absolutely no claim in law.

 

Please be aware that should continue to pursue this claim not only will you incur your own costs but also costs that I will be claiming against you for bringing this unfounded and malicious claim which bears no legal weight whatsoever and is in breach of the IPC Code of Conduct (Versions 5 and 6).  Subsequently, I will be reporting you to the ICO for improper use of KADOE and to the IPC for breach of the Code of Conduct.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Scans coming later.... 

[dx100uk 9,627]

dear simple simon.

with ref claim xxxxxx

on xxxx date you sent me proof of the signs at the time of you issuing the parking charge notices listed in your particulars of claim of the above court claim 

 

these signs are not in the name of the claimant stated on the claimform ref above....

 

should you wish to continue with the said claim

,

i give notice this file will form part of my evidence should you wish to proceed and waste court time.

 

just musing

[lookinforinfo 2,270]

Obviously the real proof will come when the contract is revealed.

 

In the meantime you could write to the DVLA asking who applied for your data back in 2017.

And show them the signage where both companies are listed and ask in view of who asked for your details, did the right one apply and what is their view on both companies showing on the sign.

 

Is this legal and explain that you are in the middle of a Court case and they may be called.

[FTMDave 641]

I've just found and adapted an old EB VCS defence.  How about something like

 

1 the defendant was not the driver at the time and no keeper liability has been created under the POFA 2012

2 in any case the driver at the time did not enter into any contract with Vehicle Control Services Limited as the car park is managed by a different company

3 the claimant is attempting double recovery by inventing three spurious sums, each of £60

4 in any case it is denied that the defendant broke the terms of any contract with Vehicle Control Services Limited.

 

Normally we don't recommend getting into letter tennis with the PPC, but on this occasion maybe dx's letter is a good idea, the claim is so ludicrous that Simple Simon might just give up, and you're only investing in a stamp.

 

Note for the future though that the time to ridicule the claim is at Letter Before Action stage, had you done so you might have avoided the claimform.

 

 

[Zeppdad 0]

Many thanks @lookinforinfo; I've contacted DVLA requesting who has accessed my info but thinking a more 'robust' letter along the lines you recommend might be order of the day tomorrow. Much appreciated. 

 

Double thanks @FTMDave;  TRULY appreciate your work on our behalf. thanks for the above adapted and, yeah, lessons learned eh!

 

I've uploaded all the paperwork that seems relevant. I've only uploaded 1 copy of the 'Final Notice of Debt Recovery' (dated 01 October 2020) Letters (there were 3)- they're all the same. I've also not included the County Court Claim form.  

 

I just want to check; is their 'Final Notice of Debt Recovery' (dated 01 October 2020) the  'Letter Before Action'? If not then we've never received the LBA.

 

To Note; I've literally only just noticed this but.... DCBL paper work, on both 'Notice of Debt Recovery' (dated 12 August 2020) and 'Final Reminder' (dated 04 September 2020), it is stated  'Date of Contravention: 06/06/2017' - 'Reason for Contravention: 86) Parked Beyond The Bay Markings' . This is incorrect, as this contravention was an ANPR charge. Wonder how that tips into their argument? Just curious.

 

Of greater relevance; You might notice on all three VCN's 'Notice of Intended Court Proceedings' (dated, 2 x 29/08/2017 & 04/09/2017) that it states, in bold, near the bottom of the page 'The creditor is: Vehicle Services Limited.' Am I correct in my understanding that legally, only Excel can call themselves Creditor as it's Excel who have the lease agreement with the landowner.  

 

Not quite sure if I mentioned this but I have accessed a copy of the land registry document which provides details confirming that the landowner has leased the land to Excel Parking. By coincidence,  I was working with a client today (3rd year law student!) who's recently  been studying contract law and noted that 'even though the companies may be linked by people, and might claim to be sister companies, they are in fact separate legal entities. Check who has accessed your information through DVLA because there may well be a GDPR issue due to who holds the contract with the landowner.')  

 

DEFINATELY considering sending Simes a letter (CHEERS @dx100uk) as you say FTMDave, it's just a stamp. Wonder if he's got some poor, under living wage lackey filtering this kind of correspondence down in Sheffield?

 

THank you all so much for all your encouragement and support- it no longer feels like we're alone in this. Lost lots of sleep but stated to sleep like a babby again. 

 

Onwards and Upwards. 

 

 

VCN EXCEL Smyth Street Wakefield 2017-2021.compressed.pdf

[lookinforinfo 2,270]

It looks as if Excel is the creditor. If that is the case then they are the ones who should contact the DVLA.if it was VCS who applied then there could be a breach of your GDPR. But we won't know for sure till we see the contract between the landowner and the car park company.

 

Once you have an answer from DVLA regarding the legality of two companies claiming they are the creditor [which is not possible] then we can look at contacting the ICO and Trading Standards.

 

VCS have been sending you lots of threats but stopping short of actual taking you to Court. Maybe he knows he is on the losing side.

Edited January 27 by lookinforinfo

[dx100uk 9,627]

how do you know these are ANPR?

wheres the NTK's to confirm?
 

[Zeppdad 0]

@dx100uk I looked at the PCNs on Myparkingspace and the PCN dated 06/96/2017 is an ANPR photo of car arriving/departing the car park. 
 

@lookinforinfocounty court claim has been made. No idea of the steps after submitting a defence (or when/I’d that leads to court) but I’ll be reading up soon enough. Yes to all the stuff re: VCN/DVLA and potential misuse of GDPR. Fingers crossed that they’ve messed up

[dx100uk 9,627]

so one anpr capture, the rest are vanishing Windscreen tickets but the NTK's have photos of you parked outside lines?

and when did the NTK's come ? should be not before 29days

ID that one and did the NTK come with 14 days?

 

we need to see them please

 

as for the court claim once you file defence they have 28 to do something

typically N180 DQ. await your s from the court

an ack of your defence from MCOL should arrive soon.

 

[FTMDave 641]

Other posters have often said that MCOL can have a "hissy fit" over the weekend, so on Monday or Tuesday file the defence.

 

At the same time send off dx's letter, with a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.  When Simon gets it, he'll see your defence and that he's in trouble.  Don't change dx's wording - calling the boss of VCS "Simple Simon" is both fun and will suggest who you're getting advice from.  Simon got a thrashing in court twice last week from Caggers.

 

However, don't' be dispirited if Simon still goes for court.  VCS/Excel send out court claims like confetti, presumably because enough motorists are terrified and pay money they don't owe, so the defeats are worth it.

 

In any case, Simon's case is complete pants and you're in a brilliant position if it goes to court.  Superb work looking up in the land registry that the landowner's contract is with Excel, not VCS.

 

We have a case at the moment where Simon is threatening court to a motorist for stopping in a "no stopping" zone ... at a zebra crossing ... with a pedestrian visibly walking along it.  I kid you not.  This is the slime you're dealing with.  Of course it all goes wrong for VCS/Excel once an unbiased judge takes a look at their bilge.  

 

BTW, you're right, the tripe you received is not a Letter Before Action (so you didn't ignore a Letter Before Action) and that is another stick to hit Simon with further down the line, if it gets that far.

[dx100uk 9,627]

its about time some one email CEO - Glyn Jones and told him what simon is doing in his name.

 

dx

 

[Zeppdad 0]

Thanks so much everyone; your support is REALLY appreciated. 

 

To answer a couple of questions; 

 

@dx100uk

Yes;  one anpr capture, one vanishing Windscreen tickets but the NTK's have photos of car parked outside lines

Honestly no idea how long after the NTK's came but suspect that I can find that out by looking at the info on myparkingspace site?

 

Unfortunately, haven't been able to find the NTK's or the tickets. Sorry.

Would it help if I screen shot myparkingspace notices?

 

am planning to have a defence in by Wednesday which will be pretty much the only day I have to get stuff in before Friday at 4pm

 

Is the Glyn Jones CEO the same Stobart Aviation? https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/17725996.drivers-stopping-airport-roads-given-100-fine/

 

Not sure he'd be that interested tbh.

 

what about a letter to the landowner? any recommendations for letter content  (and for Glyn Jones)?

 

 

[dx100uk 9,627]

If you have access to anything we have not sen here

Get it up as a pdf.  All of it.

 

As for the defence our std 3-5 line one in every pcn claimform thread already here

 

I believe stobart owns the whole airport complex now.?