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Intrum (1st Credt)/DWF SPC OD Court Claim - Old HBOS OD - Calling OC to Court?


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I am helping my niece on an overdraft debit originally with the Bank of Scotland that was bought by Intrum. 

I would appreciate any help and advice. . .

 

here is the story so far:

  • The bank account was in my niece’s name that had an overdraft facility.
  • My niece and her partner, at that time, run into some financial hardship caused her to default in account, March 2017.
  • They agreed with bank to settle the outstanding sum but removing the excessive charges.
  • My niece’s partner claimed that he paid the agreed sum and the couple never heard any more from the bank on the issue until started to their claim.
  • Unfortunately all the records of the settlement is with my niece x-partner. So we have not much to go on other than retrieve all the bank records on the account.
  • Intrum bought the debit on 28/11/2018.
  • Intrum filed to recover the debit with the Simple Procedure court in Glasgow in April 2020.
  • I have send SAR letter to the Bank of Scotland but had no response from them yet, perhaps because of the current Pandemic situation.
  • The court directed me to call the original loan holder to the Case Management discussion, by filling in some legal form, to answer to present their legitimacy of the debit.
  •  I would be grateful if anyone could have help with your views on the best way to proceed.
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When did you send the sar and to where

 

I will guess this is a std spc claim by a fleecing dca. Lots here including and spc guide

 

Most od cases are easily won by casting doubt upon the unlawful charges level inflating the debt.

 

Why do you think the bank sold it on for <10p = £1 and not crushed her directly in court??

 

Can you please read our upload guide and post up your reply form to one multipage pdf

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you very much dx100UK.

I send the  SAR on 21 Sept 2020    . . . 

the address I used was:    . . .     

Bank of Scotland PLC, The Mound, Edinburgh EH1 1YZ

 

Good point to explore with regard to casting doubt upon the unlawful charges level.

 

I am not sure why the Bank never followed the case themselves to court . . .

do they usually do that or just sell the debit?

 

With regarding uploading documents, I was not sure what exactly you want me to upload  . .

is it the case document?

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx100UK

 

I am puting together the case documents i have  and I shall upload them as you advised.

 

May I ask, I read that a loan can not be sold by the bank if the customer suffers from mental illness. Is that correct?

 

Thank you for your support  

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never heard of that no.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Mental illness and debt:  What are the rules?

 

There are several laws and codes of practice that affect how banks and other financial organisations might deal with a customer with mental illness.

 

Equality Act 2010
The Equality Act says that service providers, including creditors, must make 'reasonable adjustments' for those disadvantaged by a disability or 'mental impairment'. Most mental illnesses would be covered by this definition (although substance addiction is not covered).
Some creditors might want evidence of mental illness, such as a copy of a letter confirming an appointment, or a copy of a prescription.
Examples of possible reasonable adjustments:
• Putting specially trained staff onto the case.
• Agreeing to make contact via letter rather than phone (if phone calls make the debtor anxious).
• Allowing extra time to gather information etc.
• Agreeing to delay collection procedures for a short time.
If a provider has acted in a discriminatory fashion, the consumer can complain. Examples include:
• The creditor refusing to communicate in a way the consumer can deal with (e.g. by talking to someone authorised to call on the consumer's behalf, or insisting on communication via phone call when this increases anxiety).
• The creditor sold a product (e.g. a loan or credit card) without fully explaining it or making sure the consumer understood the consequences.
Complaining to the bank or debt collection agency itself might be helpful, especially if the Equality Act is mentioned in the letter.
Taking it further can be stressful and time consuming, but occasionally necessary.
Legal routes could be making a claim against the creditor or by claiming discrimination if the creditor takes legal action about the debt.

 

The Mental Capacity Act
The Mental Capacity Act 2005 deals with what should happen if a person lacks the capacity to make decisions for themselves. This includes financial decisions.
If someone borrows money while they didn't have the capacity to properly understand what they were doing - for instance, during a manic episode - the law still sees it as an enforceable contract by default.
To have the contract cancelled, it must be shown that the creditor knew or should have known about the reduced mental capacity.
 

https://www.choose.co.uk/guide/mental-illness-debt-help-rights.html

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barking up the wrong tree sadly...the debt has been sold on

we are quite aware of all these rules - and there is nothing specific that states a debt cannot be sold.

 

such guidelines quite rightly would have applied to the original creditor if they had been made aware of any issues in writing

nothing to do with the case now as they are not the claimant.

 

can you please stop faffin around and get up everything we need to help you instead of running around disappearing down various rabbit holes which although admirable are this far down are sadly somewhat irrelevant at this very late stage for now.

its been more than 2 days since asking.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Good evening
Sorry for irritating you with my response regarding “Mental illness and debt rules”.  I was just responding to your comment that you never heard of it.
However, here the uploaded files.  If there is anything else I missed please let me know.
Thank you for your help
Regards
 

 

10a laimants evidence.pdf 20-03-20 Claimform 6A-.pdf 20-04 defendants Response 4a.pdf 20-09 resp Settlement Offer.pdf 20-09-09 Claimants Statement of Position.pdf 20-09-21 resp SAR-to BOS.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
pdfs redacted and put back up orgs retained
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  • dx100uk changed the title to Intrum (1st Credt)/DWF SPC OD Court Claim - Old HBOS OD - Calling OC to Court?

had to hide the last post

most of the pdfs have pers info showing which under GDPR and data protection rules this site cannot carry in the open forum.

let alone you don't want 1st credit finding your Anon ID here.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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:rockon:

let me digest everything tonight.

 

why not ring HBOS and ask where your SAR went too?

the comms log will be useful here.

 

initial reading - well done on taking this on for her.....

what has prompted you starting this thread?

the last CMD was sept last 

so where is the case at from the courts perspective ...what are they saying is next 

are they chasing or it got paused for xx mts by the sheriff?

 

i also notice they cleverly intimate the OD had some form of agreement, you replied assuming and stating it was a loan?

on the statements i can see 2 loan payments going out to HBOS...was their a sep loan? to settle the OD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have send them a second letter asking them to respond to my SAR.

At the second CMD that was discussed and the other side tried to ridicule my steps.  My response was 3 points:

1.     The Banks are at best not very prompt, Media always pointing that out

2.     Not to ignore the pandemic is slowing things down

3.     We believe it is not in the HBOS interest to send their records. Hence, we might need to ask  the court to order HBOS to be brought to the case.

 

The judge gave me a direction to fill in a certain form to call HBOS to the case. 

I think that will be a very good idea as Intrum will hate it.

 

Quote

 

initial reading - well done on taking this on for her.....

what has prompted you starting this thread?

 

Occasionally I follow the cases Consumer Action Group.  There is a lots of knowledge and I felt I need a clever angle on the case.

 

Quote

the last CMD was sept last 

so where is the case at from the courts perspective ...what are they saying is next 

are they chasing or it got paused for xx mts by the sheriff?

 

There was a second on 08 December. The next one is mid next month.

 

 

Quote

i also notice they cleverly intimate the OD had some form of agreement, you replied assuming and stating it was a loan?

on the statements i can see 2 loan payments going out to HBOS...was their a sep loan? to settle the OD.

 

 

She had a loan and over draft, but she was not sure at the start. 

Her Ex-boyfriend was a rogue and he was taking loans in her name.    

However, we settled the loan with a discounted offer from Intrum, thinking it was the one in court, but it was not .

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So you've been scammed by 1st credit already..nothing unusual there!!

 

you settled this loan since the issuance of the spc?

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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No I have not  . . . there are two loans bought by Intrum.  An overdataft debit and a Loan.

The Overdraft debit has not been settled.   . . . It is still going and it is in the Simple Procedure Court  . . .  and this is what my post is about

The Loan debit has been settled by accepting the dicounted settlement.

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slow down ...read what i'm asking , stating and trying to clarify..

it all might seem useless or totally irrelevant but it's important information moving forward with the whole situation and useful in the SPC claim moving forward

 

1 hour ago, salkirwi said:

there are two loans bought by Intrum.  An overdraft debit and a Loan.

 

there was not 2 loans - the litigated OD is not a loan but it appears from your comment here..

 

4 hours ago, salkirwi said:

However, we settled the loan with a discounted offer from Intrum, thinking it was the one in court, but it was not .

 

sorry but then you did get scammed on many fronts...

they allowed you to settle the loan exploiting your confusion over thinking it was the litigated account.

they didn't tell you either and they would also have been aware of your statement filed response form:

 

The respondent had a junior account with the Bank of Scotland since a young age.  The Bank of Scotland offered the Respondent a loan of around £2500. This Respondent serviced the loan until losing her source of income and ran into some financial difficulty resulting in defaulting in servicing the loan.

 

they settled for a discounted sum... why?

we usually find this is because they hold no enforceable paperwork at all. or was full of charges , charges could have been the discount or it could have been due to 'a business decision' ...

 

but sure as eggs is eggs there is no way 1st credit would not have raised a court claim for both the OD and the loan unless there was a very good reason. they didn't that smells...badly.

 

OD 's are notoriously difficult to litigate upon if defended properly...but with a loan in the same claim, with enforceable paperwork, they would have almost been guaranteed to win.

 

it's also a shame you didn't come where before you did anything but we are where we are.

 

now the above might seem harsh..even petty but our posts are not only for you and your issue

they are also for future readers that find us via search engines or read like threads here

alerting debtors to frequent pitfalls and innocent wet myself actions many do that all these dca's will and have exploited time and time again over the last +40yrs .

 

i'll try and get around to properly redacting all your pdf's tonight and get them back up.

but before i finish and get on with the above........the status of the claim as it stands now.

 

From what i can gather the claim now hinges upon proving her ex at the time settled by a discounted payment to HBOS well before the sale to Intrum and the SPC Claim.

 

In all honestly and with regard to your comments in your previous posts upon his character, i seriously doubt this ever happened.

the disclosures from Intrum contain all the OD statements , should that have happened, it would be detailed in those.

 

there is little point in the claimant hiding that info as they would be in far more legal trouble should they have doctored them than insuring a mere +£1k claim win. Even 1st credit wouldn't pull such stunts.

 

Sorry but there is little point in requesting HBOS to attend any future hearing, nor hoping the SAR shows anything different to the statements the claimant has disclosed . That will cost you more money , and more money in terms of the claimant attending another hearing.

 

there is one exploitation i see.

that being the mention of a default notice.

the claim states: 

The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement. A Default Notice was Issued by the Original Creditor .

 

now default notices are not issued for OD A/C's (which ties in to the possible loan confusion and scam settlement i mentioned) .

This tallies with a common mistake that many DCA's, including why i keep mentioning 1st credit, which is the previous name for Intrum, made on numerous claims and was one of the reasons for the name change. To Hide that They lost many Statutory Demand and court claims over the non existence of a DN or proof of it's issuance by the OC (a DCA can't issue a DN) .. No copy of a default notice is fatal to to successful  litigation.

 

even though in this OD case one was not ever needed.

(Poor particulars of claim showing copy and paste, and never expecting a claim to be defended but responded to by a wet themselves response , which you did by settling a loan which you believed was the claimed debt when it never was) 

 

other than that

you indicate you made an OOC F&F offer in 09-20 

have you advanced this option since ?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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pdfs done and back up on your last but 1 post

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi there

 

Thank you for your response and the clear explanation, Very interesting to read and digest . . . and an eye opener.

 

Regarding the pdfs  . . . did you add comments on the pdfs I uploaded and all I have to do is to redownload them and see your notes?  is that correct?

 

Regards
 

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no, what notes?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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10 hours ago, dx100uk said:

pdfs done and back up on your last but 1 post

 

Sorry my misunderstanding  . . my IT proffesion overcasting my understanding . . .  "pdfs and back up" . . . . I am assuming you have added some notes to my bdfs and uploaded them back for me to see  . . . but clear to me now that you are just advising me on your progress in reviewing the case

Thank you

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and securing your anon status here  and our sites compliance with GDPR rules

IT too 35yrs :pound:oh take me back to the days of a KIM-1 .....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi DX
 

I need your further  assistance please
 

There was CMD carried out on 17 of February on the case, but I feel it did not go well.
 

In our submitted defence when my niece received with the case, we stated that the loan was paid on an agreement with the OC on a reduced amount quoting to approximately 50% of the case demanded sum.
 

To support our defence I send a SAR to HBOS, in which I was hoping to get a document that reflects the agreement and settlement. But with two letters to HBOS and we received no answer yet. So the solution is to report HBOS to ICO but before we could do that I need to file a complaint  to HBOS following their complaint procedure with HBOS before the ICO accept a complaint.  This would not be a two weeks process and I am sure the court would not be tolerant to wait for us.  However, the CMD judge advised that we could call OC to the hearing.
 

The strange thing I have came across, at least to a none legal person like me, the CMD judge did not allow to raise any other point in the discussion other than to show a proof of the payment that we said we made in our defence submission.   I have been educating myself on the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for the last 3 weeks to get ready for the CMD.  So I had made a list of four point to raise and challenge the Claimant  but I was not allowed to raise any issue.
 

However, these are the specific issues I found to be relevant in our case:
 

Default Notice:

The claimant (Intrum) stated in the Claim Form that the Original Creditor Issued a Default Notice to the respondent, which is a statutory requirement as laid out in sections 87, 88 and 89 Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The claimant has failed to supply a copy of the served Default Notice which under section 87 of the Consumer Credit Act is required before any enforcement can take place.

 

Termination Notice

The claimant also stated in the submitted Claim that:   the Original Creditor, On a vague date,  considered the respondent to be in default of the Finance Agreement and decided to terminated the agreement.

Under Sections 88 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (The Act) the Original Creditor must deliver a Termination Notice which complies with all of the requirements of Section 87 and 88 of the Act and of the Consumer Credit REGULATIONS 1983  (ENFORCEMENT, DEFAULT AND TERMINATION NOTICES) before the Claimant will become entitled to terminate the agreement and make any demand for early payment.
 

Notice of Assignment

The defendant requires a proof of service of the Notice of Assignment presented by the claimant in accordance with S196 of the Law of Property Act 1925 which is required to give the claimant a legitimate right of action.

With no admission of liability, the presented Notice of Assignment is fatally flawed since it contains substantial penalty charges.  Under The Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, the inclusion of penalty charges in a Notice of Assignment renders it entirely legally unenforceable.

I refer the court:   to Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Company Ltd  Vs  New Garage and Motor Company Ltd [1915],
 

Finance Agreement

The claimant have failed to serve with the submitted Claim a copy of the alleged Finance Agreement between the defendant and the Original Creditor,

The Financial Agreement must be produced to demonstrate  its compliance with the relevant sections of the Consumer Credit Act and the regulations made under the act.
 

Mental Capacity

My niece suffered from severe depression illness during the period prior to her default for approximately a year.  HBOS was told about the illness that time and they seemed genuinely concerned and  expressed their understanding.  To settle the problem, HBOS agreed to remove the excessive charges and took a commercial decision on the final figure for my niece to pay to settle the default and close the account. The account was closed on 22/08/2017.
 

We have no documentation on that agreement as the ex-partner was helping in the discussion with the bank along with my niece.  So if there is any related documents then the ex-partner would have it.  The problem is that he is in the forces and we do not know where he is stationed to call on him to see if he can provide any document or even to provide a witness statement from him.
 

 Another point, which I think it could be important to the case, , HBOS wanted, for their own records, a medical certificate from my niece to allow them to amend the default sum and to demonstrate that they are taking the proper measures to comply with The Mental Capacity Act 2005.  My niece presented the certificate to them on 15 September 2017.
 

Your thoughts on the above will be quite appreciated.  I need a direction.

Thanks

Edited by salkirwi
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On or around 9 January 2012, the respondent entered In a regulated finance agreement with Bank of Scotland plc ("the Original Creditor), agreement number xxxxxxx in respect of an Overdraft account (the Finance Agreement").


The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement,

Default Notice  was issued by the Original Creditor to the respondent.

 

The respondent failed to pay the arrears owed to the Original Creditor under the Finance Agreement accordance with the Default Notice.

 

On Of around 25 August 2017 the respondent was deemed by the Original Creditor to be in default of the Finance Agreement.

The Finance Agreement was subsequently terminated by the Original Creditor.

At the date of termination a sum of £1 ,332.82 remained due and outstanding by the respondent to the Original Creditor.

 

On or around 5 December 2018 ("the Purchase date"), the claimant acquired all title, Interest, rights, benefits and remedies that the
Original Creditor had against the respondent under and in terms of the Finance Agreement (the Assignation ) .

 

At the Purchase Date, a sum of £1,332.82 remained due and outstanding by the respondent in terms of the Finance Agreement ("the Purchased Amount~).

 

On or around 9 October 2019 the claimant wrote to the respondent to Inform them of the Assignation and to demand payment
of the Purchased Amount. A total sum of £1 ,332.82 currently remains due and outstanding by the respondent to the claimant in terms of the Finance Agreement and is undisputed

 

The debt was acknowledged by the respondent within a period of 5 years prior 10 the commencement of this court action.

 

 

box D7

 

The sum sued for is due and outstanding by the respondent to the claimant, under and in terms of a contract originally between the respondent and Bank of Scotland plc and all title, Interest. rights. benefits and remedies available under and In terms of that contract having been assigned to the claimant, decree should be granted as craved.

 

to answer your questions:

 

its an OD it is not covered by the CCA. there is no finance agreement.

 

there is no default notice on OD accounts..

 

there is no termination notice on OD's

 

there is no such thing as assignment in Scotland, the law of properties act does not apply.

 

there is no required under SPC rules that states the claimant must attach a copies of any paperwork to the claimform

 

.....................

 

whats happening with this SAR to HBOS and where did you send it

 

when is the case resuming?

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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The SAR was send on 21 September 2020 and a follow up reminder send on 15 October 2020.
I send to :
 

Bank of Scotland plc

The Mound

Edinburgh

EH1 1YZ


What about the issue with her illness ?

 

The case will resume  13 April 2021

 

Edited by salkirwi
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the mistake you made from day one was you responded that this was a LOAN is the response form.

it is not a loan and the claimants list of evidence clearly states on the statements it a current account OD.

 

the mental issues are nothing to do with the claim.

 

have you sent of a new SAR to HBOS 

 

go ring them and ask what address to send one too

state there is an ongoing court case 

 

this supposed payment her ex did.

 

was this against the loan or the OD.

 

this is how you should have responded to the claim (post 2)

 

What To Do - Simple Procedure Rule Claims Scotland - Scotland Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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