Ebay/ PayPal purchase; seller fraud

[Minton]

Hi everyone.

 

I'm new here and came across the site after searching for advice regarding a fraud that I have been the victim of relating to a purchase of a laptop bought on eBay and paid for via PayPal.

 

I would be very grateful for some advice/ assistance.

 

Long story short, I bought an Apple Macbook Computer for my daughter now they are not at school for her to complete online schooling.

 

I bought the new laptop on 4 January 2021, from an eBay seller and paid immediately using my PayPal balance (£1750.00).

 

The seller agreed to send using Royal Mail Special Next Day Delivery (before 1pm nextday) so was expected on 5th January 2021. I waited in for it to arrive due to the value involved.

 

I asked the seller for the tracking number which he sent.

 

The laptop never arrived.

 

I immediately checked the Royal Mail website to check the status of the tracking number that the seller had provided.

 

To my horror, the Royal Mail tracking website stated that the item had been delivered on 5 January 2021!

 

I then immediately contacted my local Royal mail collections office to explain the situation and was forwarded to their investigation team. Their investigator then did a GPS tracking check on the tracking reference number that the seller had provided.  The GPS check showed that the item was delivered to a local food store (Co-op) thats about 5 minutes from where I live.  The RM investigator checked the name of the postman/ lady that delivered the item and thankfully he knew her so rang her to ask if she recalled delivering the item.  She said she did remember as she only had 2 special delivery items and remembered delivering it to a female shop assistant at the Co-op.

 

The investigator then went to the Co-op store where he spoke to the shop assistant who still had the item (in fact it turned out to be a simple small envelope containing a single piece of paper inside that only had written on it 'Happy New Year'!

 

The investigator took the letter back to his office and phoned me to explain what he had found. They have recorded all the information.

 

I then messaged the seller explaining that he had tried to defraud me and I told him of the above.  He immediately said he would refund me.

 

I contacted eBay and PayPal and explained everything to them.

 

They said they would investigate.

 

I was then awaiting the refund to be put back in my PayPal account but it was not.

 

I contacted PayPal again and they said the payment has been placed on hold pending their investigation, due by the 22 January. They said they want to await the seller's response but to date he has not replied.

 

I have escalated the PayPal issue to a claim with them via their resolution centre.

 

The seller had attempted to make me believe that the letter he sent to the Co-op was the laptop that I had bought. The tracking number on the letter is the same tracking number that he sent me that he said was for the laptop- that was clearly a lie and still I have not received the refund or the laptop.

 

I asked the seller to confirm the name and address that he sent the laptop to and he confirmed in writing that he had sent it to me with the tracking number that was used.  However, the tracking number did not refer to my name or address as detailed above.

 

Now eBay have cancelled the transaction saying they could not cancel it as the seller had cancelled the refund request.

 

I await PayPal's decision.

 

Meanwhile I logged a complaint with eBay and PayPal about the seller, hoping they would intervene and remove the seller from their sites. He remains active on ebay despite all this.

 

I am sceptical that both ebay and PayPal are taking this seriously.

 

I'd be very grateful as to what options are available. I'm prepared to take them to court, but am unsure who my claim would be against- would it be PayPal as I don't have the details of the seller, only his name.

 

Many thanks for any advice/ assistance.

 

 

[dx100uk]

Do a chargeback

 

Dx

[45002]

The seller address should show up on their Ebay account ?

[dx100uk]

its a very very common ebay scam

part of their business model that they allow as they ran away to luxy to avoid paying UK Taxes

 

simply do a chargeback against the transaction on your debit card.ring your bank do it now.

 

 

[Minton]

Thanks. I actually paid with the balance left in my PayPal account so it wasn't paid using my debit card; with hindsight i should have used my Debit card but in a way good I never as they would have also had my bank details!

[dx100uk]

No doesnt work like that

you should never leave money in a foreign bank a/c(paypal)  lets them take whatever they want  with zero rules to protect you.

 

Paying by a debit card doesnt give them your bank details

 

You are going to have a very hard time getting your moneyback.

 

 

[Minton]

Thanks- I only had that left in there as sold something very recently. I wouldn't ordinarily leave a balance of more than £100 in my PayPal account and to be fair this is the first, and will be the last time that I ever do this.

 

If they don't refund my payment, I will have to issue court proceedings and call the Royal Mail investigator as a witness, which he said he would do. I just wondered who the court proceeding would have to be addressed to- the seller, Ebay or PayPal? Thank you for your assistance.

[dx100uk]

I know there have just been changes that and ill say this with all truth 'a paypay' has just had to register with the fca regarding us not being part of the en.

 

Now if thats paypal as in the administrators of your buyer seller balance so are thus now under uk law so you can launch a uk court claim against them im not 100% sure.

 

logically this might be correct as paypal credit u.k. The loans you can get were already and paypal credit card (newday) were already.

 

It would be nice after so long for us to eventually be able to do court against them as theyve allowed their users to get away with this fraud for so long with no recourse other than chargeback.

 

Dx

 

 

[BazzaS]

To add to the weight of evidence this is fraud, do you have (or can you get) proof of what the cost of the Special Delivery was?. If they paid for the weight of an envelope containing a piece of paper, they won't have paid for the cost of sending a laptop (given it is much heavier) ......

You should also contact ActionFraud.

[Minton]

Thanks BazzaS. I don't know what the seller paid as he used a franking machine I think, or at least that's what the Royal Mail investigator says. There wasn't any cost printed on the envelope as is usually the case when you send something using Special delivery. He used a prepaid method as per the photo. Thanks ill contact Action fraud too.

[just_jue]

I had a similar experience but with a item that I sold being returned, and instead of getting a 10kg item I got a letter sent to a neighbour.

 

If you have proof of the letter and the tracking number from the sellers details you should be covered as for 1 they have sent it to the wrong address and not the address you have listed on your ebay dashboard so in ebay terms and conditions of their money back guarantee it states: 

 

 

"If the buyer isn't happy with the seller's response or doesn't receive a response, the buyer can ask us to step in and help.

If asked to step in and help, we review the information provided by the buyer and seller for evidence of successful on-time delivery to the buyer's address (as displayed on the 'Order details' page), or proof of collection by the buyer.

Information required to prove a successful on-time delivery is all of the following:

Tracking number uploaded to the site by the seller before the estimated delivery date, that can be independently validated;
A delivery status of "delivered" (or equivalent in the country to which the item was delivered);
The date of delivery;
The recipient's address, showing at least the city/county or postcode (or international equivalent) that matches the one found on the 'Order details' page; and
Signature confirmation, if the total order cost (total of item(s), postage and tax) is £450 or more. Learn more about signature confirmation requirements."

 

I found Paypal are better to speak to for getting results. 

 

If you go to eBays help page, search for money back guarantee and have a read.

 

Good luck

 

When I had the similar experience I reported it to Action fraud and got a crime number as well as sent all the details over to eBay and they finally agreed in my favour.

 

It is going to be a fight but worth it

[Minton]

Thank you. Its just crazy isn't it. I was just reading about action fraud too so will contact them. I've opened and escalated a claim with PayPal and sent the evidence to them showing the tracking number on the letter that hat the seller had sent. Thank goodness Royal Mail acted so quickly to retrieve the letter from the co-op.

 

I dont know how these fraudsters do it but they seem to quite a lot!

 

Thanks again and glad you got your issue sorted out.

[just_jue]

They send it to local business because someone will always be there to sign for it.

 

Going by experience when speaking to eBay its best to ring them in the morning as you normally get through the Irish call centre, do keep pushing that the 'item' was not sent to your default address that is stated in the money back guarantee.

 

JJ

[Minton]

Thank you. I will!