VCS ANPR PCN PAPLOC now claimform - appealed - Berkeley Centre Sheffield *** Claim Dismissed***

[simsplayer96]

i posted my witness statement off 1st class signed for yesterday, so should arrive with no time for VCS to see it before they post theirs. 

 

Still no sign of anything from VCS yet, but I had a letter from the court today asking if I was happy to do proceedings over the phone, instead of in person? 

 

What do you guys think? I have to email them within 48 hours to let them know either way

 

Thanks!

[FTMDave]

It's strange that the court has asked you this, as hearings have been on-line due to COVID for a while now and we presumed would be for at least the near future.

 

Can you please type out or upload exactly what the court asked?

 

I'm just worried they might be asking about "on the papers" which is a very different thing.

[simsplayer96]

Hi sorry my partner expained the letter to me incorrectly.

 

I have to give my details to the court within 48 hours, and then i have to let the court know if i'm not happy with remote proceedings at least 2 working days before the hearing date (14th February).

 

Do you still need me to upload the full letter details? I'm away from home for the next 4 days so don't have access to a scanner!

[dx100uk]

so just the std phone details order thats all. not a paper only hearing.

[FTMDave]

As long as the dreaded words "on the papers" are not included, then there's no problem.

 

You decide.

 

Remember however that if there is a face-to-face hearing that Simple Simon will have to get a solicitor local to you to turn up to court at great inconvenience and expense, cash he wouldn't be able to get back even if he won the case, which may make him decide to discontinue.  

[simsplayer96]

I still haven't received VCS's witness statement, a day late now. 

 

Do you think that will negatively impact their case? I have spent considerable time and money fighting this so far, so have prepared a schedule of costs for all the expenses i have had.

 

is it better for me to ask to go into court to settle?

 

Obviously i don't really want to go into court if i end up losing, but i feel like as they have not met the court's rules regarding witness statements, that they now don't stand a chance?

 

Not entirely sure what to do, so any advice is really helpful

 

Thank you so much

[dx100uk]

give it a few days then ring the court and tell/ask them of they have got their vcs copy yet.

 

 

 

[simsplayer96]

Hi everyone, 

 

had an interesting email from VCS yesterday, with a supplemental WS (please find attached) which claims they sent their original witness statement on the 30th Nov. 

 

I have not received a WS from them at all. I did receive a letter from them on the 30th November (also attached), which makes no mention of a WS.

 

They are also claiming they never received my CPR request, but I have a certificate of proof of posting to their address. 

 

What should I do now?

Do I respond and ask for their original WS?

Or not respond until they contact me via post as required?

 

Thank you so much!

Supp WS.pdf letter 30 nov.pdf

[brassnecked]

The letter seems to be a newish tactic from Simon, the letter would have no bearing as is small claims track, don't think a judge would allow that extra cost over and above what is already in the claim, its a scare tactic.

 

The supplementary WS is a reason we like to see the PPC WS  but that supplementary is a load of codswallop, 

 

Point 7 Comercially sensitrive, either they have authority or not Contract is germane to the claim so required.

 

"8. The Claimant notes that the Defendant has raised a point in relation to planning
permission for signage displayed in the Car Park. The Claimant is not able to
comment on this, as this would be a matter to be raised with the Landowner.

 

9. As far as the Claimant is concerned, they were authorised by the
Client/Landowner to manage and enforce parking."

 

The client can authorise what they like but no PP is a dealbreaker, as the signage and cameras illegal without it  Its a criminal offence and no contract can be formed from a criminal act.

the other's will be along soon with further thoughts.

 

[dx100uk]

you should have cut off email comms MONTHS ago and stated xxx email address is not to be used for any communications regarding our mutual interest.

 

this is how simon operates, see a loophole, oh sorry your honour it was sent by email if the OP didnt get it, thats not my fault, then exploits that by sending more paperwork BS via the same method.

 

this is why it is SO very important NEVER to give a PPC or their dogs your email address.

and if you have you must tell them not to use it as above else you will be exploited blind.

 

dx

[simsplayer96]

Sorry I didn't do that, I'm a complete newbie with all of this!

 

Should I respond saying that I cannot be contacted by this email?

 

am I not right in thinking that they have to send official documents via post? just like I had to do?

 

Either way, I haven't received any WS from them via email either.

 

 

[FTMDave]

I'll have a good read through Ambreen's drivel and comment, but it will be very late this evening due to work.

 

In the meantime ring the court as dx suggested and ask them if they have received a WS from VCS and if so when.

 

At first glance you can use this new document against Simple Simon.  VCS reckon they run the site and can sue people themselves - yet when it comes to planning permission it's all the landowner's responsibility!  They normally include their contact with the landowner and if they haven't it it will be because something is wrong with it.

 

EDIT: I've just realised today's stuff didn't include Simon's original WS.  Yes, as you are, unfortunately, in contact with VCS by e-mail, yes e-mail them and ask for a copy.  If they don't cooperate by late afternoon think about sending a 1st class letter.

Edited January 11, 2022 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

if you have you must tell them not to use it as above else you will be exploited blind.

 

[FTMDave]

4 hours ago, FTMDave said:

Yes, as you are, unfortunately, in contact with VCS by e-mail, yes e-mail them and ask for a copy.  If they don't cooperate by late afternoon think about sending a 1st class letter.

Have you been able to contact VCS?

[FTMDave]

I'd hoped to be able to comment tonight on both the VCS main WS and the supplementary one, to help you ridicule some of their points in your own supplementary WS.  However, to do that we need to know if you have had any joy in getting Simple Simon to cooperate re the original WS.

 

 

[brassnecked]

Simon might be hoping to send it by email at 23:59:59 the day before any hearing, which is why not advisable to use email with VCS.

[simsplayer96]

I'm really sorry everyone, I'm still away on holiday so have very limited wifi access!

 

I've drafted an email response to VCS, what do you think?

 

"Dear Ambreen,

 

Just to let you know that this email should never have been used, and should not continue to be used to contact me. 

 

I have never received a witness statement from you. I did in fact receive a letter from you on the 30th November, which simply was asking for us to pay a reduced settlement fee, with no mention of a witness statement anywhere?

 

As you are now well past the court's deadline of the 7th January 4pm to deliver documents you intend to rely on in court, I still have no idea what I am defending myself for. 

 

Can you please send me your original witness statement immediately via email, and also via post as required by the court. I need this immediately so that I can prepare myself a fair defence, so please send via email given these special late circumstances.

 

After that, please discontinue using this email for court matters, as I have never given permission to be delivered documents here.

 

As for the CPR request, I have proof of postage to VCS's given address for official documents.

 

Regards,"

I will send as soon as I get confirmation from you, and will let you know when they reply.

 

I have access to better internet today.

[FTMDave]

That's fine, it gets the job done.

 

BTW, if they don't cooperate, don't worry, we know broadly what they will send because they always send the same tripe.

 

Just if we can get our hands on the physical WS with its numbered paragraphs then you can write your own supplementary WS pulling it to bits.

[FTMDave]

In fact you should start drafting your own Supplemental Witness Statement given we know bits that are bound to be in VCS's WS.

 

VCS SWS (5).  A paragraph proving you sent the CPR with the CoP as an exhibit.

 

VCS SWS (7).  A paragraph stating that you have researched scores of VCS cases and VCS normally have no problem including their contract with the landowners.  They do not use the "commercially sensitive document" excuse.  If they refuse to produce a contract they have not established locus standi.

 

VCS SWS (8).  It is ironic that on the one hand VCS claim to run the site and to be able to litigate under their own name, yet when it comes to planning permission for the XX number or signs, all of which prominently display VCS's name and claim the driver is entering into a contract with VCS, suddenly planning permission is the task of the landowner.  Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under (XXXX go and look up the law, I can't remember off hand) and means no contract can have been formed. 

 

This too -

 

In paragraphs (xx), (xx), and (xx) VCS make great play of their claim that they have followed the IPC's procedures.  It is really neither here nor there if the IPC is in agreement with VCS.  The IPC is a trade association, hopelessly biased in favour of its members.  In fact it was set up as a rival to the British Parking Association simply because, in the opinion of companies such as VCS, the BPA was too fair on the motorist.  It is the law in England and Wales, not the IPC, that decides what is reasonable and lawful.  

 

Ambreen Arshad is being somewhat disingenuous when she says she "may" be unable to attend the hearing.  I have researched scores of VCS court cases and I cannot find even one where Ms Arshad has ever appeared in court.  The same goes for Mr Mohammed Wali, the other paralegal employed by VCS to write witness statements.  This is particularly remarkable as hearings are by telephone or on-line during the COVID pandemic, with no travelling involved.  It seems that under no circumstances are VCS willing to have their witness statement authors questioned in court.

[brassnecked]

Other thing is the extra fees for turning up in that letter do not stand either and might be worth a mention, but FTMDave's suggestion seems to cover the bases  for a supplemental if they still withold theirs  Its likely a CTRL-C CTRL-V cut 'n paste WS full of blarney and non applicable cases, with lashings of Beavis taken out of context./

[simsplayer96]

Ok so i've received a Witness statement via email from them.

 

It is dated the 30th November, so I have no idea why this hadn't been sent to me sooner?

 

Please find attached, it seems they are arguing that I am responsible for the actions of all of the named drivers of my vehicle. That doesn't seem right at all? and also, how am i to know who was driving?

 

Let me know what you think.

 

This is what they replied to my email:

 

"Dear Sirs, 

 

We utilised this email address for serving our supplemental witness statement as this was the email address pleaded in your Defence and Counterclaim Form. If you did not wish to be served with any paperwork in relation to the matter at this email address, then you should not have pleaded this email address in the Defence Form.  

 

We note from your email below that you then go on to request us to re-send you our witness statement and evidence to the same email address. 

 

Please find attached our bundle and supplemental witness statement. 

 

Please kindly confirm receipt of the above documents.

 

Kind regards. 

 

Ambreen    "

VCS WS Redacted 2-compressed.pdf

[brassnecked]

Looking at points 18 19 and 20, are VCS ignoring POFA, will look further after a meeting I have i just now, I'm sure there is plenty to go at as it looks like some of the usual VCS guff in there.

[brassnecked]

Point 25 if suing you as Keeper the £60Debt Recovery Fee/Unicorn Feed tax is over recovery and can't be claimed.  They are assuming defendant is driver and no POFA by the look of it

[FTMDave]

As far as I know these Supplemental Witness Statements can be disallowed by the judge, but logically if hers gets accepted yours will so I think you need to draw yours up.

 

I've seen she has included a contract so I've cut one of my earlier paragraphs out.

 

But she has included photos of EXCEL signage!!!!!

 

You can use her style as an introduction and add that you received the SWS on 10 January and the original WS later only on 12 January so wish to make some extra points.

 

1.  VCS SWS (5).  A paragraph proving you sent the CPR with the CoP as an exhibit.

 

2.  VCS SWS (8).  It is ironic that on the one hand VCS claim to run the site and to be able to litigate under their own name, yet when it comes to planning permission for the 11 signs (WS (7), (14) (43)), all of which prominently display VCS's name and claim the driver is entering into a contract with VCS, suddenly planning permission is the task of the landowner.  Lack of planning permission is a criminal offence under the Town and Country Planning Acts 1990 & 2007 and means no contract can have been formed. 

 

3.  From the exhibits in VCS's WS it can be seen the signage is extremely confusing.  Some signs state that VCS run the Berkeley Centre car park yet at least three others state that a completely different company, a certain Excel Parking Services Limited, run the car park.  it is impossible for the motorist to know which signs are valid and which company he or she is entering into a contract with.  VCS have not established locus standi as it seems a completely different company also administer the exact same car park.

 

4.  WS (18-22)  VCS are not using the Protection of Freedoms Act to establish keeper liability.  This backs up what I stated in my Witness Statement.  They should be suing the driver.  They are are suing the wrong person.

 

5.  VCS are attempting double, indeed triple recovery.  As well as £50 legal costs they have invented an extra sum of £60.  Furthermore, in a letter to me dated 30 November (exhibit XXX) they state they will ask the court for £220 extra costs although they know full well that legal costs are capped at £50.

 

6.  In WS (44) VCS make great play of their claim that they have followed the IPC's procedures.  It is really neither here nor there if the IPC is in agreement with VCS.  The IPC is a trade association, hopelessly biased in favour of its members.  In fact it was set up as a rival to the British Parking Association simply because, in the opinion of companies such as VCS, the BPA was too fair on the motorist.  It is the law in England and Wales, not the IPC, that decides what is reasonable and lawful.  

 

7.  In WS (25) in the strange numbering system of 22, 23, 43, 44, 45, 24, 25, Ambreen Arshad is being somewhat disingenuous when she says she "may" be unable to attend the hearing.  I have researched scores of VCS court cases and I cannot find even one where Ms Arshad has ever appeared in court.  The same goes for Mr Mohammed Wali, the other paralegal employed by VCS to write witness statements.  This is particularly remarkable as hearings are by telephone or on-line during the COVID pandemic, with no travelling involved.  It seems that under no circumstances are VCS willing to have their witness statement authors questioned in court.

 

Then at the end invite the court to dismiss the case and copy her Statement of Truth.

 

Hang on though for 24 hours to get ideas from the other regulars.

Edited January 12, 2022 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[brassnecked]

That Excel/VCS malarkey has seen them tolchokd in court before see the Prankster here, it might be of use in a supplementary WS

 

Good pointers from FTMDave, as suing keeper again the £60 Debt Recovery Fee, can only be applied to a claim against driver, as they are struggling to ground keeper liability without POFA that sum should also be challenged  so there is room to hit them with that as well.  At least they haven't trotted out the tired old discredited cases like Elliott v Loake and CPS v AJH Films.

Parking Prankster: VCS Spanked in Court.

PARKING-PRANKSTER.BLOGSPOT.COM

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VCS v Ms M. 3QZ53955 25/01/2016 Claim discontinued. Costs awarded to motorist. The Prankster was contacted by a motorist shortly before th...