Bank Park ANPR PCN Claimform - Blue Car Park 2 Merry Hill Brierley DY5 1QX - *** Claim Dismissed ***

[Andy711351]

sorry for these pics but I took these recently from the same ar park on a recent visit

 

As eluded earlier, the shopping centre really dont intend to give the shoppers a hard time. so if they need longer, they are invited to park in the other car parks which are free

 

the entrance to the car park has no signs. the only big sign is the once advertising the short stay car park. The first 'proper signage' is where you can see MATALAN and theres a signage with what looks like a camera or CCTXV above it. That signage has is back to the entrance so the driver has no choice to decide to  enter or not

 

Lok how high the signage is. I Took a meter and its at least 2 meters high. ow is a driver expected to get out of the car, read the tiny terms and conditions, which are at least 2 meters high

 

 

OOPS sorry DX100

 

my apologies

 

I am so sorry

[Andy711351]

The centre has around 217 stores and over 10,000 free parking spaces, with a total retail floorspace of 1,671,000 square feet (155,200 m²) making the centre the eighth largest in the United Kingdom, behind Westfield London, the MetroCentre, Bluewater, Trafford Centre and Westfield Stratford City.^[1]

 

^{Above from Wkipaedia. Am I expected to walk from shop to shop> 9600 spaces ebacsue they know that most shopeprs will drive between car parks which is what i did}

[FTMDave]

Having photos of the signage which undermine their case is great - but are they included in your WS?  Your WS is supposed to include everything you want to rely on in court.

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dave

 

fair enough

 

I will try and take my ipad/pc if allowed. I will ask the judges permission, even though the phots were not included in my WS

 

However, if the claimant is allowed to   :  ( and remember they have legal representatives who have been surely to court many more times than me and therefore be familiar with CPR rules)

 

1. Ignore My request (Defence) as clearly stated in my original not be be served any documents by electronic means

2. Ignore the deadline of the 1st of feb for any WS to be filed and served ( remember they filed and served the supplementary on the 17th of Feb)

 

3. Serve me the first WS less than 48 working  hours ( they filed served the documents on 15th january 2021 and that was a Friday. My only chance of reply was the 18th of January , so again deliberate 

 

4. use the excuse of clerical error /typographical error more than once ( therefore more likely to be deliberate then an error)

 

Then I really hope the Judge on the day, despite me not having included the latest phots in my original WS, would make exception and allow me to show the photos.

 

In a way they have demonstrated contempt of court by their4  actions above. Either we all follow the correct rules or if the Judge is going to allow them to get away with all the above four points then i feel its a bit Harsh to deny me the opportunity . They should not just  be allowed to get away with excuses such as clerical errors and if a judge does not home in on this then actually I admit i do lose a bit of faith in the system.

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

On 17/01/2021 at 20:57, Andy711351 said:

I dont have a printer so its gonna be tricky.

 

1. Can I File he Bundle, which will include my WS electronically. Its at Gloucester and Cheltenham? if so, will an electronic signature be acceptable?

 

2. The Claimant emailed me their WS and Bundle. In return can i do the same, ie serve them my WS/bndle electronically?

 

so you cant argue against them using email sadly

 

just take 3 copies of the photos with you.

1 for the judge

1 for the claimant rep

1 for you.

 

as for your other points, it's not really contempt, simply that you fell for and did not protect against most of the oldest tricks in the book that 99% of fleecers will put on LiP's. pers i'd not say anything.

 

dx

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dx

 

I think therefore I would just stay silent on these points as you advise

 

Regarding the phots I will ask if the ipad ones are allowed. Ill try printing g them off tomorrow, but it would be in blackand white.

 

Question though , if allowed to use them do you think the phots i posted a few posts ago, which have been hidden are actually in my favour? thats because at the entrance it says on the big logo

 

" Short stay Car Park.. 4 hours free parking. need longer? Wehave 9600 spaces in our long stay car parks"

 

does this actually help my case ?

 

Ill try my best to ask the judge to disregard their supp WS

 

CPR 32.10 is the sanction for witness statements. It states:

“If a witness statement or a witness summary for use at trial is not served in respect of an intended witness within the time specified by the court, then the witness may not be called to give oral evidence unless the court gives permission.”

they've produce a detailed 9 paged contract etc... so I want to disallow that

 

Two differences are immediately apparent:

• There is one sanction for witness evidence but two for expert evidence. In both cases the respective witness or expert may not give oral evidence. The expert report, however, is also barred but the witness statement does not (at first blush) seem to be.
• The witness sanction is automatic. It is triggered by a failure to serve the statement by the court deadline. The expert sanction is not linked to the court deadline, all that is required is that the report be “disclosed”. Does this really mean it can be disclosed at any time?

[FTMDave]

I see you're doing a lot of reading-up: well done!

 

Also read up on who can represent them.  You have to plan on the worst-case scenario, so plan on them turning up.  But they may well not do.  Or they might send someone local to the court who has no right to address the court, which is what you need to read up on.   

[Andy711351]

Thanks

 

Im reading through every single post here summarising then reading up on a few CPRs

 

 

[dx100uk]

right of audience...

 

can i be polite here and say STOP trying to be a legal eagle when there is NO need for you to do so.

you are a LiP ....end of.

FORGET all your procedural legal arguments, no need to go there , it will simply portray desperation and an air of little confidence by YOU that your real evidence, your WS, is in your mind weak. 

 

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

 

Dave , in reference to your post #133, 

 

'Or they might send someone local to the court who has no right to address the court, which is what you need to read up on'

 

Claimant WS Para 29):

 

 

I may not be able to attend the hearing. Should this be the case, I will instruct an advocate to attend on my behalf and ask that the Court accepts this as my written notice given pursuant to CPR 27.9(1). Should I be unable to attend, I request the Court decides the claim in my absence, taking into account this Statement and any other evidence I may file. This paragraph demonstrates my compliance with paragraphs (a) and (b) of CPR 27.9(1). 29. In the event an advocate does attend the hearing, I request their fee be added to the amount sought.

 

 

Question:

 

1. Has the claimant covered himself /all eventualities if he or his representative dont turn up but they send someone local?

 

2. How do I find out that whomever does turn up has the right or not to represent them. I dont know what the claimant or their nominated representativ look like to be then able to tell the judge, that the person before 'us' is neither the claimant nor his his legal  representer, so has not right to address the court.  Even if they do send Mr Joe Bloggs, hasnt the claimant covered himself by the para 29 above?

 

 

 

[Andy711351]

The Claimant also in his initial WS states that

 

'I do not intend to comment on the Letter of Claim, which for the avoidance of doubt was complaint with Pre-Action Protocol, because the Defendant did not respond to it. I respectfully submit that the Defendant should lose the right to raise complaints about a letter that they could have responded to with those concerns. Perhaps if the Defendant had done so, we would not be here now'

 

My Q

 

Why did the claimant not even show a copy of the ' Notice of Debt recovery letter' which normally follows the  Reminder Notice?

 

In their exhibits they have a copy of the NTK and a copy of the reminder.

 

Why haven't they included anywhere in their WS or indexed bundle any of the ' Notice of debt recover letter ' by dcb legal and the 'Letter of Claim' following that,  by dcb legal.

 

Can I actually ask the judge to put them to strict proof where the extra £50 came from as they have no  proof that they ever showed me where the extra £50 came from.  All they have included is the NTK of £90, then the POC of £150 with no evidence ever that they added the £50 . ( I have copies of their debt recovery letter and LBC saying they have added the extra £50, but they havent submitted this to the court, so can i put them to strict proof for an invoice as to where it arose from?

[FTMDave]

Regarding Right of Audience, have a read of this case.  It's quite short  http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/search?q=right+of+audience

 

Bank Park "should" turn up, but they won't, as they're too stupid to deal with a court case on their own.  Fair enough, they have every right to send a solicitor.

 

So DCB Legal "should" turn up, but again they won't, because Bank Park are too tight to pay all the solicitor's travel expenses and time.  So if they go ahead a local solicitor who knows nothing about the case and doesn't care (so good for you) will be there and you should challenge their right to present the case.

[Andy711351]

Thanks Dave

 

Reda through itand is much clearer now

 

Just another Q please

 

Does that mean if BP director doesnt turn up, and neither someone from DCB legal ( their legal representatives), but a local cheaper solicitor/legal rep turns up, they have no right of audience because they are not from DCB legal? Are you implying  that the legal rep MUST be from DCB legal, otherwise they have no right of audience?

 

Or are you implying that its ok to get a local solicitor who isnt from DCB legal, but they have no right of audience because they are not familiar with the case. In essence what im asking is if the local rep is legally or Paralegally qualified, on what basis cant they haev the right of audience. Ive read through the blog but still not clear  on what basis is the local guy, if legally trained or Paralegally trained, has no right of audioence?

 

 

[FTMDave]

I am not an expert on this, but have been reading up.

 

I think it comes down to accountability.  If DCB Legal are there, and do something naughty in court, the firm can later be sanctioned.  If DCB Legal don't want to travel all that way and so instruct a local firm of bona fide solicitors, then fair enough, if that second firm does something naughty they are accountable. 

 

What is not on is for DCB Legal to send someone local who isn't qualified or is self-employed.

 

That explanation won't be exact but will be some of the way there.

 

So ...

 

The best judges read the paperwork beforehand and focus in on points that could rapidly lead to judgement, and in your case it would be the signage, but let's assume that doesn't happen and the whole process plays out.

 

Ask who is representing Bank Park and challenge their Right of Audience.

 

Then challenge the supplementary WS which has only been sent because the original was a roboclaim which no-one bothered to read through before lazily sending it off, unlike yourself who has respected the Court and written everything yourself.

 

Don't worry if all the above fails miserably!  As dx says, don't get bogged down in minutiae.  Also don't be surprised if the judge won't accept the photos as they weren't in your WS.

 

Your aces are that you could never have agreed to pay the £90/£100 because it is is deliberately hidden in writing that even a scientist at CERN would have difficulty in detecting.  Plus the double dipping.  Go on & on & on some more about these points.

[Andy711351]

Hello

 

Im in the waiting area of the court

 

my hearing is the only one happing on site

 

all others are online

 

Havent seen the claimant yet but Im stuck in a seminar room on my own and they may be here but kept apart

[Andy711351]

claimant turned up

 

Lewis Jukes

 

independent advocate

 

by elms legal

come from wales

 

satred asking me about defence and whether this from internet

we are awaitng to go in

[Andy711351]

He just says he wasnt even aware there was an order for a hearing

 

He thought is was a tel hearing

 

H e says he has been to law school etc.. 

[FTMDave]

Challenge his Right of Audience.

[dx100uk]

dont let him un nerve you..

[Andy711351]

He says he is independent advocate then said he has been inserted by Elms?

 

so is he independent or works for Elms

 

he says he is self employed

[Andy711351]

he is confirming things with me

 

like is this the signage that you said was not belonging to the site

 

he is just checking things withme

 

he seems uncertain

 

 

[FTMDave]

Don't cooperate with him!

 

[honeybee13]

FTMDave is right, no cosy chats. Wait to see the judge.

[dx100uk]

smile walk away 

 

[Andy711351]

he is confirming the charge

 

100 or 90

 

then he says i will be claiming 90