VCS CCTV PCN - No Stopping - Outside entrance to southend airport SS2 6YF (Lay Rep too) ***Claim Dismissed***

[nightnajjers]

Hello. I could do with some assistance with a NTK.

Your thoughts and advice appreciated.

Background:

The Driver stopped to load a disabled passenger and a bag.

The area was deserted all bar one other vehicle and it was dark and foggy, vehicle stopped for no more than 1 ½ minutes

Someway before the the area in question and before a junction, there are two signs stating “no stopping on access roads” there is no signage to say which are access roads, all other signs relating to the area in question are (conveniently for them) placed low down on Iron railings at 90 degrees to any vehicle using the road i.e. not facing the driver.

The NTK states:

The “Reasons for this charge”. Are, “104 Stopping to pick up/drop off in a restricted zone.”

The charge notice states a “the period of parking to which this notice relates to immediately preceding the time of event stated in this notice”

So is it parked or stopped to load?

The notice says that if you were not the driver, you CAN notify them of the drivers details.

If I were to supply the drivers details would that not be against data protection legislation?

I can't think that I am under any legal obligation to supply that information.

 

ANPR charge

1 Date of the infringement 28th 12 2020

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 4th 01 2021

3 Date received 09 01 2021

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] no

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? yes

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]  no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up n/a

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle Control Services LTD

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Outside entrance to southend airport SS2 6YF

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. No . How to Appeal says www.myparkingcharge.co.uk

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, (International Parking Community) IPC

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here none

TIA

 

2021-01-04 NTK For PCN incident 2020-12-28.pdf

[dx100uk]

Programmable Search Engine (google.com)

 

clickme ^^^

get reading up ...do not appeal

[lookinforinfo]

You were not parked  you are being charged with stopping in a no stopping area. 

 

Your PCN does not mention PoFA but at the bottom of the first page it makes an attempt which fails.

 

The Act which governs private parking companies allow them to transfer the parking charge to the keeper from the driver if the driver has not paid or their name and address have not been given to the parking company after 28 days.

 

What the Act does not say is that it will be assumed that the keeper is the driver.

The keeper does not have to be the driver to be responsible for the amount outstanding, providing there is a contract formed between VCS in this case and the driver.

 

You will probably have read by now that as their sign was stopping you from doing something no contract can be formed.....

[nightnajjers]

Thank you for the assistance so far.

What better way to while away a few lock down hours than to  read about Vehicle Control Services and Mr Smith. Having done so,   as far as I can see I just await  the  inevitable,  more scary letters with road signs on? or a Letter before action.

"Your  PCN does not mention PoFA but at the bottom of the first page it makes an attempt which fails".    Is that something I can use at  a later date?

I am still slightly bemused by the fact that the NTK states that the charge is for stopping,  but that the charge notice was given as a result of parking?  the car could not have been doing both at the same time. Probably only a small point, but small points seem to matter in these cases.

Thinking  out loud and as a matter of interest.   If  the keeper passed on the driver details to VCS within 28 days and  the driver then did not pay or respond to the claim then it seems it is assumed that the keeper should be responsible,  does not seem to be either fair, reasonable or reliable  grounds for a court case

[VCSMugging]

nightnajjers, you may want to remove, edit and reupload your NTK, you've left ref and registration details on.

[nightnajjers]

Thank you. looks like some one did it for me, thank you as well. I    would ever make it as a Solicitor

[dx100uk]

you don't need to be a solicitor

1000's of joe public have won against simple simon.

[FTMDave]

One today in fact!

[nightnajjers]

Hello

what appears to be the Letter Before Claim has arrived.

I have got this far with the response.

Dear Simple Simon

With reference to your speculative invoice Ref VCS 0000

There is absolutely no intention of contributing to what must almost certainly be your healthy income by paying the above without substance claim.

Conversely the next time your vehicle comes to a stop. if you would like to dip into your without merit income, please forward a cheque in the sum £160 to a Charity of your choice.

I draw your attention to your original spurious invoice dated 22/02/2021 which states “REASON FOR CHARGE 104) STOPPING TO PICK UP/DROP OFF IN A RESTRICTED ZONE”.

Thank you for your reference to Parking Eye v Beavis. Which may have had some relevance had the vehicle in question been parked.

In the same manner, you may wish to refer to One Parking Solutions V Ms. W claim number F0HM9E9Z.

As the case is more relevant, it would be more beneficial for your future victims to include that in favour of your current suggestion. I am sure your Debt Management Team could further their legal expertise by studying the case.

As Southend Airport is not “relevant land” under the POFA it would appear that you have contravened the GDPR by obtaining information from DVLA without justification.

Please provide evidence of authorisation (not an employee as in the One Parking Solutions V Ms. W ) that your are empowered to collect or issue charges of any kind on Southend Airport which is governed by it's own Bye Laws.

If you commence legal proceedings, all and full costs will be sought including costs so far plus the current Court interest rate should it become applicable.

If there is no response within 14 days the matter will be considered closed.

...........................

I am a bit out of my depth here so any help on any further additions or removals is much appreciated.

Not sure if it matters at this stage, but the identity of the driver has not been disclosed to the opposition. demand for Payment.pdf

[FTMDave]

Was the fleecers' letter headed Letter Before Claim/Letter Before Action/Letter of Claim?

[dx100uk]

PDF sorted and back up above

that is not a letter of claim

 

clearly says demand for payment .

 

and when you get the DCA letters...

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

[FTMDave]

The work you've put in to look up legal cases may come in handy later on, so keep all the info.

 

However, as dx says, you haven't received a LBC so ignore this latest bilge from VCS.

[nightnajjers]

Thank you so much for sorting out the upload/pdf business, much appreciated.

The advice given  is very reassuring, thank you.

 

I was assuming as the letter had  "the company intends to take you to Court" and it had all other  relevant details that it was the LBC.

 

I am trembling in my boots because " my account has been passed to our Debt Collection Team". I am not really sure how they can give me an account without my consent?

 

During the research I read somewhere about someone who had taken DVLA to task over them inappropriately  giving out the driver details, did anything  positive come out of that? I could not find the outcome of that case.

 

I am still totally astounded that VCS can operate a business that,  at least in this case an outright and without question  scam on the public.

 

Incredible that in  modern day society with all the consumer rules, regulations and laws that Parasites like the Pieman can operate with impunity , beyond belief!

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

I can imagine that the first time you get these letters, it can be worrying.

 

We've seen them hundreds of times though, and are wise to Simple Simon's ways.

 

Don't worry, VCS don't have a "Debt Collection Team", unless you count the YTS kid who sticks these standard "threatening" letters into their envelopes.

 

Relax for the moment, but do come back here if you get a letter which is headed "Letter Before Claim" or similar.

[dx100uk]

please never be scared of a powerless DCA on ANY DEBT, they are not bailiffs and have ZERO legal powers.

 

 

[nightnajjers]

Thank you for your assurance. The trembling in my boots was tongue in cheek to be honest. They probably put a different hat  on to be raised to the dizzy heights of  the  "debt management  team"

 

It made me laugh that I now have an account with them, maybe I should ask for an advance !

 

Still interested in DVLA  giving out details when they should not.

 

 

 

 

[lookinforinfo]

 

To answer your question in post 4, yes you can use it. The Notice to Keeper is not compliant with PoFA. as VCS' version doesn't invoke PoFA  for their  transfer of liability from driver to keeper. Instead it just says that they assume the driver and the keeper are the same, which the Law does not assume.

 

The relevant piece is PoFA Schedule 4 s8 or s9  

2  (f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—

(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

 

That is not what your PCN states so they can only pursue you as the driver not the keeper. And they cannot assume you are the driver.

[nightnajjers]

Thank you for that. Further ammunition should it be required. I will be back when and if the LBC arrives..

 

It is so annoying having to go through having to waste our time researching something many of us have no idea about and  all the worry of whether or not we will end up in a  Court. I can see how the predatory behaviour of these companies result in folk just coughing up, as it is an easier option than going through the alternative.

 

Thankfully there are still some decent people left to assist  those who do not like to be taken advantage of.

Thank you

[nightnajjers]

Hello.

I was wondering if they will pass this on to a debt collection company?  and how would I deal with them should they arrive on the doorstep. I am a bit worried about this as I am a tenant.

Due to the way the house is laid out it is usual for callers to  knock on the landlord"s door, rather than walk round the back of the house.  For obvious reasons I don't really want my landlord to be thinking I am being chased for debts.

[brassnecked]

You ignore letters from a DCA, they are not bailiffs are powerless and they won't send anyone to knock on the door A letter is full of if but and maybe  with no defini=te Will statement.

[nightnajjers]

Hello

Ok, thank you for the assurance. I will carry on waiting for the letter before claim. 

[dx100uk]

IF.

 

dx

 

[nightnajjers]

hello

A quick update for future victims.

Another final , final demand received, with big red writing !!

 

I will continue to wait for either another final, final ,final,  demand or the Letter Before Claim

 

[lookinforinfo]

I expect they are suffering from dementia. They have forgotten that they have sent you several final letters before. Either that or they are unaware of the meaning of final. They aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer.  Just ignore them and they may go away.  They may also decide to offer you a price reduction......................... they are really kind hearted that way.  Not.

Edited April 18, 2021 by lookinforinfo

[nightnajjers]

Hello.

Seems like they have woken up.

The LBC  has arrived along with a very detailed reply form, which unless I am advised differently I will not waste my time on. Can't believe they have the cheek to ask for so much information including a Standard Financial statement

Section 4 of their reply form Box 1-1.   "I need more documents or information".

Would it be a good idea to ask  them for proof of their authority from the owners of the Airport  for  imposing and collecting  parking charges on their behalf. Seems to me to be  a reasonable request from the recipient of a LBA letter from a company that is threatening Court Action. Surely  without that  authority  that they have nothing?

Or is it time to tidy up/improve  the Simple Simon letter above?

thank you

NN

Is the letter in the  above ( post no. 9) ok to send ? anything to add / remove

 

VCS PAPLOC.pdf