Packlink and UPS Compensation - **£1000 settled by Packlink**

[Gryphon]

I read a thread David v Goliath thread 419960 on this site with a very similar issue to mine. 

 

I sold on ebay an expensive piece of yacht equipment for £1000. The buyer told me not to bother with extra insurance as he understood that eBay would compensate any loss. He was wrong sadly. The parcel was "lost".  I have been through the whole appeals process with Ebay but they have returned the buyer his money and I am £1000 out of pocket.

 

The item was sent through UPS via Packlink and I asked for signed for delivery as the item was worth more than eBays compensation limit. The tracking showed the parcel was delivered at 10a.m the following morning and I thought everything was OK.

However the buyer reported that the parcel never arrived.

 

To cut a long story short UPS say that the driver signed it off (for Covid reasons) but they then apparently changed their story and said that the parcel was lost.

 

I have not been able to complain to UPS direct as they say I am unable to deal with my case with me for "data protection reasons".

 

Packlink have said they will compensate me for I think about £65 (plus the postage fee) as I failed to take out enhanced compensation...which I was not even aware of. I assumed they would know the value from eBay. I attach the start of the most recent email from Packlink.

 

Is there any point in my pursuing this through the Small Claims Court and if so how should I go about it? If so who should I pursue?

 

It is possible that the buyer did get the package but decided he would rather not pay for it....but he has been very reasonable  I do not believe this is the case, and clearly Ebay believe that it was never delivered.

 

 

 

 

 

UPS Letter.pdf

[BankFodder]

When you post documents, please can you post them in PDF format. Scanned – multipage single file if necessary.

I'm afraid that the photograph you posted above is not at all clear and for people with small screens it would be unintelligible. I use a large screen and I can scarcely read it.

Please could you repost this if it is relevant.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the driver signed it off". Please could you explain.

I suggest that you send an SAR to UPS immediately and maybe that will provide some information as to what has been going on.

As you have said, there is a possibility that the addressee is being scallywag about this – but on the other hand you say that it has been reported as lost. Let's see what a data disclosure turns up, if anything.

For £1000 I would certainly think that it was worth pursuing to the small claims court – but I think that you need to be very steady about it and to gather your information together before you make your move.

[Gryphon]

Thank you for the initial advice . I have managed to convert part of the email from Packlink to  pdf and will attach it. . The reason the driver might have signed for it is to keep social distance apparently.

 

It appears I cannot talk direct to UPS as they consider me to be a 3rd party and  I cannot see how to email UPS. There is a physical postal address but do you happen t know of an email one to send the SAR to?

 

I am not certain it is worth pursuing as I should clearly have taken out the enhanced insurance,

 

Chris

 

 

I have also attached the official notification sent by UPS to Packlink

 

Letters.pdf

 

Sorry to do this bit by bit but is this the correct form for the SAR? Chris

 

Subject Access Request

 

Re .....

 

I sent a piece of yacht equipment sold for £1020 via Ups using Packlink as agent. The tracking showed that it was delivered the following day. Packlink informed me that the driver signed for it in line with Covid guidelines. However you have since informed Packlink that the parcel was lost.

 

Please could you send me all information you have regarding this parcel and the investigation into its whereabouts

[BankFodder]

In terms of the subject access request, you should use our SAR template which will give you a very generic form of statutory request which you can modify to suit your own situation. However you should keep it as wide as possible rather than limit the disclosure request by reference to particular events or dates et cetera.

You should give them one reference number so that they can trace you within their system – but that's all.

In terms of the requirement to take out insurance, you should be reading around the sub- forum – particularly at the Hermes stories – to see what we have to say about the requirement that the customer should insure themselves against the negligence or criminal wrongdoings of the employees of the courier.
Our view is that this is extremely unfair and unenforceable. It is the courier company which should take out insurance. The customer has paid for a particular service. You should not be in a position where you must then pay for that service to be carried out.

Please read around. It's very important

[Gryphon]

Thank you for the advice so far, but I am sorry to say I am being a bit slow. I cannot find the link to the SAR template which you refer to. When I go to the Librarian post there is no download for the SAR . Clicking just takes me back to the top of the post.

 

I take your point at looking at the posts of others. It was the case of Hermes losing a parcel that made me think it moght be worth seeking your advice.

 

Thanks 

 

Chris

[BankFodder]

Read the entire SAR thread.

 

It's not a download it is a template

 

 

[Gryphon]

I have read it through more than once but only see a letter template for sending to ISO ....sorry!

[BankFodder]

Well I'm very puzzled because I have just visited the thread and it is post number three which contains a template subject access request

[Gryphon]

If I tap on the words Subject Access Request it just takes me back to the post number 1 . I have also tried on my phone in case my browser was doing something odd with the same result. Also when I try to go to the library it says I need to register ....which I have done. As I say I may be being stupid but I do not see where to go....sorry to waste your time .

 

Ignore me I have found the answer....

 

 

2 questions

1 Should I send the SAR by email or is it better by post?

2 Should I send it to Packlink as well as UPS?

 

Chris

 

[BankFodder]

Well they don't cost anything so you have nothing to lose. You can send it to both parties – why not.

Email is fine but it might be a good idea to confirm in writing – although make sure that the written one is really a copy of the email and it is clear that it is a confirmation so that the start date of their 30 day period is the earlier one – the email date.

You certainly don't want to confuse things by giving conflicting start dates

[Gryphon]

Thanks. I will let you know when I hear something.

[Gryphon]

Some advice please. I have had an email from Packlink saying that they are giving me £60 compensation. However the email says 

With this settlement letter, all future legal obligations against us are satisfied.

The customer shall be deemed to notify to PACKLINK SHIPPING, S.L. if proceeds, the fact that lost shipment has been located and to refund the compensation paid by PACKLINK SHIPPING, S.L. In the event of such a breach, PACKLINK reserves the right to take legal proceedings against you, in order to recover the above concepts.
Thanks for the cooperation.

Any thoughts on how I should respond . I have yet to hear anything from my SAR from them or UPS

 

Cheers 

 

Chris

[BankFodder]

Well this is a decision you have to make – but I have to say that if it was the tossup between 60 quid or the chance of getting all of my £1000 back, I know which choice I would make.

If you decide to turn them down then make sure that you send them a very clear message saying that you reject the offer and you want full reimbursement of the entire value of the parcel. Tell them that you note that they have changed their story and that initially you were told that the driver had signed it off – and later on they told you simply that the parcel had been lost

You should also point out to them that you will be issuing legal proceedings on this matter and that you are confident that you will win and that their requirement that you should ensure yourself against their own negligence or the criminality of their employees is unfair and you are quite convinced that the judge will agree with you and will point that out in the inevitable judgement.

On the other hand, you can simply accept the 60 quid.

What is the return date for the SAR?

 

[Gryphon]

Thank you for your prompt reply.

 

The SAR I sent to UPS and Packlink on the 15th Jan.

 

Another question. Do you think I should be aiming at UPS themselves who were the courier  or Packlink who are the company that I booked the parcel with? It is Packlink who are offering me the compensation so I assume they should be my target for getting re-imbursement of the £1000.

 

Could you confirm that what I have written in an email to Packlink is appropriate?

I wish to reject your offer of £60 compensation and unless you are prepared to re-imburse me for the full £1020 for the package I intend to take the matter further.

I therefore reject your statement that “all future legal obligations are satisfied”.

 

The UPS tracking showed that the parcel was delivered and I was told more than once that the driver signed it off for Covid reasons.( Please see your communication of Jan 4^th). You or rather UPS then changed their story and said the parcel was lost. I do not believe that I should be out of pocket due to the negligence or criminality of UPS  employees.

 

If I do not have a satisfactory outcome I intend to issue legal proceedings on this matter and I am confident that I will win.

 

Chris

[BankFodder]

The letter is fine, but Packlink are based in Spain. They had an address recently in the UK but I think that has now ceased to operate and so you would have to bring a legal action in Spain which is pretty well impossible.

Therefore any legal claim will be against UPS.

In order to start this you will have to begin a claims process against UPS – it needs to give them a chance to respond and to deny liability. I would say that you shouldn't have to wait more than about 14 days.

If they deny liability or they don't respond then you could move to the letter of claim and then the court proceedings if that produces nothing.

I'm not sure that we have sued UPS before on this forum so we don't have a lot of experience of it – although I expect it will go broadly like all the other courier firms.

[Gryphon]

It seems there is no way I can make a claim on line against UPS as in their eyes I am not the customer (ie that Packlink is) and they say that due to data restrictions they cannot deal with me directly . I assume that is probably rubbish but I think it might be easier just to issue a letter of claim straight away to their head office address.

 

Could you cast your eye over the following below and see if I have got the right idea before I send it? Should |I for instance mention mediation?

 

Additionally I have told Packlink by email that I reject their off of £60 and will be taking matters further. I asked for a physical UK address. I guess that is not going to happen and I suspect that the £60 will just appear in my account in a couple of days. I guess it is UPS that I shall have to concentrate on from now on.

 

Cheers Chris

 

 

Letter of Claim

 

Parcel Number  .....

 

I wish to make a claim against you for the loss of the above parcel sometime after 26/ 11/20. I sent this using Packlink as the agent on the 26/11/20 and the tracking showed that it was delivered and its release signed for by the driver on the 27/11/20. However the recipient never had the delivery and subsequent investigations by you showed that the parcel was lost although Packlink have continued to inform me that the parcel was signed for by the driver.

 

I did not take out any enhanced insurance with Packlink and they are offering me only £60 compensation for the goods which were worth £1020. It is not my responsibility to pay for the negligence and or criminality of your employees therefore I wish to claim for the full amount of £1020 from you. If I do not hear from you within 14 days I intend to take court proceedings to retrieve my money.

 

Yours Sincerely

[BankFodder]

please monitor this thread for a fuller reply later but in the meantime I have no idea why you believe what you were told by ups. Why do you give these people who were trying to avoid the responsibility, such credit for telling you the truth?

Bless!

[Gryphon]

The naivety of youth ....at 67!

[BankFodder]

Is the letter which you have suggested above intended to be sent to Packlink or to UPS? I'm not clear as to which company you are targeting.

I've already suggested that you should read around the Hermes stories in this sub- forum – and I have the impression that you haven't because otherwise you would see that Hermes almost always raises the issue that there was no contract with them because the delivery has been arranged through Packlink.

There is a standard answer to this and it has been iterated many times. I think it is a good idea that you should read through again and understand the arguments.

In terms of the suggested letter, I think it is far too detailed. You are giving them far too much narrative.
I expect that in the Hermes sub- forum there are some suggestions as to suitable letters of claim. You will see that they are short, to the point, they don't provide evidence, they simply lay out sufficient facts so that the other side understands the cause of action.

When you come round to drafting your particular claim, but also will be succinct and provide the minimum amount of information to ground in action.

Let us know what you find in the sub- forum and we'll take it from there.

Also while reading, I'm not sure if UPS will opt for mediation – but it is quite likely that they will and so en route it will be worth your while familiarising yourself with the various useful accounts that have been given and which describe the mediation journey.

I'm putting the ball in your court as much as possible because this is a self-help forum and if you familiarise yourself with the various arguments and the procedures, you will have a lot more confidence when you have to deal with it yourself. Also you will acquire transferable skills which you will be able to apply in order confidently to sue anybody else who gets in your way.
 

[Gryphon]

I am intending to claim from UPS first because they lost the thing and second because as you said Packlink are based in Spain and I have been unable to find a physical address in the UK. 

 

Thank you for such a comprehensive answer. I have researched at least some of the Hermes examples of similar problems the smashed guitar the lost laptop etc so I think I have a fair idea of how to proceed but it is good to have you in the background with your experience... for instance in your suggestion of too much detail in my claim, I had twigged that UPS will try to say it is Packlink's problem but as I understand it they still have an obligation to take due care . I found this on one of your previous posts which I guess gets to the nub of the problem.

 

The negligence argument will be on the basis that they took custody of your parcel. They undertook to carry out a certain service. They knew full well the value of the item. They understood full well that you and the intended recipient of the item were the beneficiaries of the arrangement and as such it would be recently foreseeable that both of you would be affected if they failed to carry out their duty of care to a proper standard.
Hermes are a large company with systems in place in which hold out an expertise in parcel delivery and you are entitled to rely on their expertise.
In breach of their duty of care towards you they lost the parcel and as a result he suffered the kind of direct damage which would be recently foreseeable: – the loss of the parcel and the loss of its value.

 

My claim letter now just reads as follows

 

 

Letter of Claim

 

Parcel Number  ........

 

I wish to make a claim against you for the loss of the above parcel sometime after 26/ 11/20.

 

I wish to claim for the full amount of £1020 from you. If I do not hear from you within 14 days I intend to take court proceedings to retrieve my money.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Thanks again

 

Chris

[dx100uk]

you need to remember not to blindly copy and paste stuff with ref no's etc that id you

ref number removed

 

dx

 

[BankFodder]

Please wait for a further reply tomorrow before sending this off

[BankFodder]

Packlink is based in Spain. This means it is very difficult to sue them and of course this is extremely convenient for people – mainly Hermes but apparently now UPS to try and deflect their customers onto a wild goose chase.

It's not only about the UPS duty to take reasonable care. It is about the UPS contractual duty to Packlink to carry out their contractual obligations.
You seem to have missed the fact that even though the contract is between UPS and Packlink, you enjoy full third-party rights to bring action on the contract under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.
If this is something that you did not understand – then please go back to the Hermes stories because we have gone over this time and time again and it's extremely important.
Hermes know about this act of Parliament. UPS know about this act of Parliament – and sewed all the rest. Yet they routinely tried to bamboozle their aggrieved customers by simply saying that there is no contractual relationship between them (the courier) and the customer.

Please have a look at this and understand it. This will be the basis on which you will be bringing a breach of contract action against UPS.

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

Letter of Claim  Parcel Number  ........

 

On XXX date you undertook to deliver a parcel on my behalf to an address in XXX town.

The value of the contents of the parcel at £XXX and its contents were properly declared when the contract was made.

Through your negligent handling of the delivery, the parcel did not arrive at its destination and you have since declared that it has been lost. You have declined to reimburse me for the value of the lost item.

I'm writing to inform you that I'm proposing to take legal action against you and if you do not reimburse me £1020 being the full value of the parcel which has been lost by you plus the wasted costs of delivery within 14 days, I shall sue you in the County Court and without any further notice.

 

 

 

YF

 

 

Please check this suggested draft. Make sure that it is correct and that you are happy to sign it. If there's anything you want to change then please let us know before you send it off.

 

I think you should keep on reading around the sub- forum so that you understand what we're doing here. It's really straightforward but as I've already said you earlier, you need to be ahead of the game in order to have confidence

[Gryphon]

Very good news.

 

I emailed Packlink rejecting their £60 compensation and saying that I would be taking action if they did not compensate me in full  and they have just  replied....

 

Firstly, I would like to sincerely apologise on behalf of Packlink for the circumstances which caused you to submit this claim. We appreciate the financial loss in which you now find yourself and will gladly reimburse you in full for the value of the missing item.

As with everything, there exists the possibility of an item becoming damaged or lost due to the much larger than normal volume of logistical traffic and movement of parcels worldwide at this time. We at Packlink, appreciate the situation and place a strong value on customer satisfaction and protection as one of our core values. That is why we will reimburse you 100% as a gesture of goodwill and appreciation of your business.

 

So it appears Packlink do worry about their reputation even if they could have avoided any action by me due to their Spanish location. It is well worth knowing for others who may find themselves in a similar position. Thanks for your patience and advice. 

 

It will be interesting to see if anything happens with the SAR I sent to UPS and Packlink.

 

In thanks I shall be making a suitable donation to your organisation.

 

Chris

 

[BankFodder]

Well this is more than simply good news. It's astonishing news and I'm very pleased for you. Congratulations.

Maybe Packlink are far more customer-facing than we ever imagined.

It would be helpful if you provide the contact details that you have been using for your communications with Packlink and maybe we will adjust our advice for future cases.

Please let us know when the payment actually arrives. It really is an extraordinary result – good for you and good for Packlink.

And in advance, would be very pleased to accept your donation so thank you very much.