Small Claim Court Issue

[BankFodder]

Yes I'm not aware that the online system allows judgements to be entered in respect of a counterclaim. I'm afraid I think that you will have to go to the court tomorrow and apply the judgement there.

However it is well worth doing and you should do it as quickly as possible.

Take copies of all your documents including the email you received telling you that you could apply for judgement

[Lilliboo]

Hi, it was a paper claim not online. The courts are closed and also the phone lines for the local court.

 

They are only conversing by email at the moment, but slowly, hence my asking if there is a particular form to use as the email did not specify.

 

I will just have to email back and to wait for response.

 

If the judge does grant the judgement does this mean he has to pay the money even if he does not proceed with his claim against mum? Thanks for your help.
 

[BankFodder]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n225-request-for-judgment-and-reply-to-admission-specified-amount

[Lilliboo]

Thank you, that is the only form I can find. 
 

just to clarify, in this instance mum now becomes the claimant and claimant defendant?

[BankFodder]

Good point - and it's not even clear to me that this is the correct form.

 

You could simply prepare your own request.

 

I'm trying to find more info

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part12

[Lilliboo]

Thank you. It is not really clear is it what form to use.

 

I have searched and searched. Read everything available.

 

Maybe I have to phone a solicitor for advice

[BankFodder]

By all means phone a solicitor – but I expect that the advice you get will be pretty poor – and probably cost you some money.

It's not essential to have a form. You are allowed to make your own application on your own paper and if you adopt the style of the existing form, that will be more than adequate.

I would suggest that the top of the form – you head it very clearly "application for default judgement – failure to respond to counterclaim".

Also, I have a feeling that you describe yourself as a "part 20 defendant" – and for the avoidance of doubt I would describe yourself as a "part 20 counterclaim defendant".

It's important not to get hung up on these forms. Forms are there to make things easier for litigants – but also to make things easier for the court system so that they can process them quickly. But there is no rule that says that you can't use your own form.

If you want to do something and post it up here then we'll take a look.

I would start off by:

 

Quote

Application For Default Judgement by Part 20 Defendant– Failure To Respond To Counterclaim

 

 

In the XXX County Court
claim number XXX

Between

XXX – part 20 claimant

and

XXX – part 20 defendant
 

Application For Default Judgement by Part 20 Defendant– Failure To Respond To Counterclaim

 

1. The part 20 claimant  has not fled an admission or defence to my claim
2. I confrm that particulars of counterclaim claim have been served on the part 20 claimant in accordance with the rules.
3.  
4. Part 20 claimant's date of birth is not stated in the form of reply but is known to the claimant as: XXXX
5. or
6. Part 20 claimant's date of birth is not stated in the form of reply and is not known to the claimant.
7. The judgment details
8. Certify as correct
9. Blah blah

 

You can see that I have suggested that you state the subject of the application very clearly at the top and also in the usual place before the application begins.

After that, I think you broadly use the details in the default application form.

I can't see anything wrong with this at all.

[Lilliboo]

Thank you. That is brilliant.

 

I expect you are correct about a solicitor. Shame solicitors probably do not know what forms to use.

 

I with your advice. I expect that if I have not submitted it in the way they would like that I will be corrected.

[BankFodder]

Post it all up here when it's done

[BankFodder]

In fact I would introduce at paragraph 3, a reference to the email which you have received.

Something like "the part 20 defendant has received an email from the court dated XXX indicating that they should apply for a part 20 default judgement on the counterclaim. A copy of the email is attached to this application".
Something like that
 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

n the case of a failed response to a counterclaim does the claimant now become the defendant and defendant (mum) now become the claimant? Or is there another way to request default judgment. Thanks

 

Yes....Your Mum is the Part 20 Claimant

[BankFodder]

Thanks for that. So probably use the same wording but simply transpose the parties

[Lilliboo]

Thank you both of you for your kind help.

 

As Andy has confirmed that the counterclaimant is now the Part 20 claimant I have used the form N225.

 

This should be correct as there is also a fee for a counterclaim using the same tariff as for an initial claim.

 

We will see if I get an email to state otherwise.

[Lilliboo]

In respect of submitted Form N225 for Default Judgement - Specified Amount. We have just heard back to day. Judgement appears to be in mums favour but:

 

I wonder if someone could explain/clarify the meaning of what is written on the General Form of Judgment Order:

 

1: Judgement is entered in respect of  counterclaim in favour of the Defendant against the Claimant for the sum of xxxx plus interest xxx Total: xxxx

 

2: Enforcement of the said judgment is stayed pending determination of the Claimants' claim (listed for hearing)

 

3: Because this Order has been made without a hearing, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or deliver the application to the court (with the fee) to arrive within 7 days of service of this order.

 

Am I reading that mum has won but if claimant wins at the hearing she may lose? Or if claimant wins, his winning is offset against the judgement meaning no one wins -  each side wipes out the debt to the other?

 

Clearly having no legal advice is leaving me confused.

 

Thanks of you can help.

[BankFodder]

Have we ever had sight of the claim form or the defence and counterclaim?

[Lilliboo]

I'm not sure?

 

Does this alter the advice or explanation of the Judgement Order

[BankFodder]

Well it would be nice if you would post up the documents so that we can understand the context of everything and give you the best advice

[Lilliboo]

Not sure why that would alter asking for advice regarding the judgement form from someone who understands that particular order.

 

I appreciate that you personally don't understand what I am asking, so best we just leave it now. Posting, or reposting 50 pages of what has gone before is totally irrelevant to the explanation or clarification that I am looking for.

 

Thanks anyway.

[BankFodder]

We are not asking you to repost information – simply to post up the documents that have been filed or responded to in PDF format.

I think that you don't really understand that you have joined a community which sets out to help people with great goodwill and without asking anything in return except some reciprocal goodwill.

Asking you to post up documents is completely normal. If you were paying £300 an hour – which is the value of the advice you are getting here – you would soon post up whatever you are asked in order to save yourself money.

Posting up documents would have helped us and saved us time and maybe you would have benefited from better advice.

Not only that, posting up documents would make them available to other people so they could also understand the problems that you are experiencing and the procedures involved in dealing with those problems and they could then apply that knowledge and experience to their own problems.

This is a community where we share information and the expenses of running the service are borne by us - not by you.

Clearly you don't seem to understand that and I'm sorry about it.

Of course we are happy to keep on helping you – because our help is unconditional but maybe when I've explained to you that you appear to have a very self-centred attitude about these things, you may decide that you don't want to come back you any more – and of course that's your choice.  

 

 

[AndyOrch]

I suppose it begs the question.....why is there a hearing for the claimants claim? Has there not already been a hearing ? what has happened since and before you submitted your N225 ? Did you submit you request too early ? why has the court awarded you judgment on the Counter claim if the main claim has yet to be heard ?

 

Lots of details missing.

 

Perhaps a Bullitt point timeline of what has happened so far ?

[Lilliboo]

Andytorch.

 

I think everything that has happened so far has been detailed above in the post.

 

The hearing is not until the end of June. You appear to have advised on the issue of the N225 previously.

 

The situation is that the claimant submits a claim and pays a court fee. £455

 

The defendant (mum) submitted a defence and also a counterclaim and also paid the same court fee £455. Both in the same position regarding costs.

 

Just as my mum had to submit a defence within a specified time limit, the claimant has to respond to the counterclaim within a specified time limit which is 14 days. He did not. Having spoken to the court, they confirmed that my mum could request Judgement by default. The judge has awarded her almost £6500.

 

Now, my question relates to the Enforcement part as the claim has not yet been heard. I just wanted clarity as to how the hearing may affect the judgment.

[AndyOrch]

Yes I remember now...so yes its quite normal for your mums judgment to be stayed until the full claim has been processed. Whatever the outcome win or lose one will counter the other or your mums judgment will stand in full if the claimant loses.