Startline Motor Finance - Car repo full of my possessions how do i get them back?

[agilenerd]

Hi,

 

Thanks for spending your time reading this i'll try make it short and sweet as possible 

 

Startline motor Finance ... Car was repo from outside of my house by the repo agents on the 23rd of Dec.

The repo was fair because i had missed quite a few payments because of covid and I had not paid 1/3 of the price of the car.

 

I arranged them to pick it up on the week of the 21st so I could remove my possessions in time but they turned up without notice and told me to come now and get my possessions out of the car if i wanted them. I wasnt in the area so I couldnt do anything about it.

 

They've taken the car to london apparently and if I sent them the keys they would then ship my items back ok great, so on the 27th I sent the keys off stupidly not recorded post but i've heard nothing since. I text the repo guys today who have told me the car is due to go to auction today or tomorrow the car will be sold with my personal and work possessions in them and i'd have to arrange with the auction house to collect?

 

My question is

should I be the one arranging to collect these items when its them who have taken the car?

 

The auction house could be other side of the country and the car is absolutely loaded with my personal and work possessions as I was in the middle of moving home. I have it all on text with the repo agent they confirm that there is possessions in the car etc so I can prove that if need be but I cant prove what was in the car and if any of these items go "missing" as I have a lot of mobile phones, laptops (I work in IT) and Jewellery of my own in there who can i peruse for what?

 

Thank you

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Make a detailed list of the items in the car.

 

Check back here for a fuller reply later

[BankFodder]

You need to act quickly. You must contact the auctioneers and also the finance company immediately and put them on notice that the vehicle which they took away contrary to their original notification, contains your personal items and that these should not be sold and if they are sold then you expect compensation and if you don't get compensation then you will see them in the tort of conversion.

Do this immediately. You really don't have much time.

As soon as you have done that, make a detailed list of the items which are in the vehicle and try to give their replacement values. Any bills et cetera that you have will be helpful.

Post the list up here – and also send the list to the auctioneers and also to the finance company.

In the message to the finance company, make it clear to them that this vehicle has been taken away from you contrary to the notification that has been given and therefore there is no authority to sell it with the items involved. One them that they could find themselves in the middle of the legal action if they do not deal with this correctly and that they are now formally on notice.

Once you have done this then come back here

[dx100uk]

why oh why did you leave you car on a public highway?

on private land a powerless repo guy has no powers to take it, they are not bailiffs.

 

can you afford the car going forward if things were undone by say a time order?

[agilenerd]

1 hour ago, BankFodder said:

You need to act quickly. You must contact the auctioneers and also the finance company immediately and put them on notice that the vehicle which they took away contrary to their original notification, contains your personal items and that these should not be sold and if they are sold then you expect compensation and if you don't get compensation then you will see them in the tort of conversion.

Do this immediately. You really don't have much time.

As soon as you have done that, make a detailed list of the items which are in the vehicle and try to give their replacement values. Any bills et cetera that you have will be helpful.

Post the list up here – and also send the list to the auctioneers and also to the finance company.

In the message to the finance company, make it clear to them that this vehicle has been taken away from you contrary to the notification that has been given and therefore there is no authority to sell it with the items involved. One them that they could find themselves in the middle of the legal action if they do not deal with this correctly and that they are now formally on notice.

Once you have done this then come back here

Thanks so much, i'm going to send this across today, only real issue i have is i dont know item for item what was in the car... i have a lot of personal documents 2 mobile phones, some jewellery a printer 2 laptops but I cant be specific at this moment in time i'd have to work it out as i was moving house the car was full of my possessions i did tell the repo guys again i have all this information on a text thread

[agilenerd]

1 hour ago, dx100uk said:

why oh why did you leave you car on a public highway?

on private land a powerless repo guy has no powers to take it, they are not bailiffs.

 

can you afford the car going forward if things were undone by say a time order?

I know! Well I had hidden the car for quite a while but still needed to use it I was waiting to get a court summons so I could apply for a time order and they've located it (was parked quite far from where i live) put it on a truck and got off with it! I probably could afford it if it was undone by a time order 

[BankFodder]

Well make sure they have the formal notice straightaway and the finance company. At the end of the day it will be the finance company that you will proceed against as they are responsible for it because it seems that the people acting for them didn't follow the notification that you were given.

Send a formal notice and then start compiling your list.

However it will have to be a good list because if you end up going to court and they can disprove any of it, you will lose all credibility.

 

[dx100uk]

ring startline and ask if they will accept a time order at this late stage and return the car..

FWIW startline rarely get everything right, there will be a mistake in the process leading to this you've just got to find it?

 

did they issue a default notice?
 

[agilenerd]

Startline just replied with this

 

 

I’m afraid we cannot be held responsible for your personal belongings. Your agreement was terminated in March as a result of the account conduct and at this point you no longer had our consent to retain our property. As you no longer had our consent to retain our property you should not have been storing any of your belonging in it. We did make it clear our intention was to recover the vehicle and proceeded to do so.

 

When the vehicle has arrived at Manheim we are happy for you to attend and collect anything that is removed from the vehicle but you will need to hand over the vehicle keys in order to do this. I believe the vehicle is scheduled to be delivered to Manheim Colchester. You can contact them on 0333 136 1011 to arrange a date and time to drop off the keys and collect any belongings from the vehicle.

 

I also note that you have a private registration on the vehicle at the moment. If you wish to retain this then you should place it on retention as soon as possible as you may lose rights to the registration mark if the vehicle is sold and this is still allocated.

[BankFodder]

Write to them immediately and tell them that they are quite wrong and that you are holding them fully responsible.

Tell them that they gave you notice that the vehicle would be collected on a certain date and this did not happen and in fact the vehicle was collected by their agents in advance of that date. This means that it was not possible for you to empty the vehicle and it would have been unreasonable for them to anticipate the early collection.

Tell them that they are now on formal notice that they will be held liable for the conversion of your property and that it is their responsibility to take steps to make sure that the property is removed from the vehicle and safeguarded.

Remind them of their duty to treat you fairly under cobs – that this is an FCA statutory duty and that if you are unable to access the property which was in the car then not only will you be looking at a claim for conversion of your property but also a claim for breach of their statutory duty under cobs.

Read up about cobs a bit – but it is basically a duty to treat you fairly and to communicate with you fairly.

Send this message off immediately

[agilenerd]

I replied with what you said and he’s literally just put this: 

 

Good Evening,

 

As mentioned, you shouldn’t have had the car after March or stored anything in it as a termination notice was issued. This is entirely your responsibility. If you wish to arrange collection of any belongings in the vehicle then please contact Manheim Colchester as a matter of urgency. 

 

Kind Regards

 

just a couple of points don’t know if their relevant..

 

1. I don’t own a car now as they’ve taken my old one.

2. It’s lockdown? I would be breaking the law wouldn’t I by collecting the vehicle. My mothers a vulnerable adult whom I live with so I don’t think it would be reasonable to expect me to travel to Colchester and collect my items

(I’d probably require a small van to collect)

I have told them originally I estimated the value to be around £5000 of possessions (this is probably a slight exaggeration) it also has a lot of my personal information in the car in a document store such as bills/old passports a lot of information that could be used fraudulently surely they need to protect that under GDPR?

 

Massive thanks for your help so far feel like I might have to make a court case at this rate! 

[BankFodder]

Write back to them and confirm once again that regardless of the rights and wrongs over the vehicle, the possessions inside the vehicle are yours and remain yours. It has been acknowledged by the agents that there are positions in their and that they are responsible for their safekeeping and storage until you get a reasonable opportunity to get them back.

Tell them that they are under notice is also are the agents and the auctioneers that the items are yours and that if they are sold, then they are converting your goods. As the finance company which has instructed them all, then they are liable for all of the unlawful actions of their agents and furthermore they are liable under the FCA regulations and you will have no hesitation in bringing action against them under those regulations.

There rights to possess the car are completely separate from any rights in the personal possessions inside the vehicle.
They search you with a notice saying that the vehicle would be collected on a certain date and you are entitled to rely on that notice – which you did. The vehicle was not collected on that date but was collected on an earlier date and so you were deprived of the opportunity of safeguarding your personal possessions.

If they have a problem with that then they must take it up with their agents who collected the vehicle.

[dx100uk]

did you ever get sent a default notice?

 

[agilenerd]

I’ve sent that off to them @BankFodder

Will see if or what they reply with..

 

I’m not sure @dx100uk if I’m honest! Unfortunately all my paper work is in that car too so I’m a bit lost without it!

[BankFodder]

Send them an SAR immediately

[agilenerd]

I will send a SAR via email today and will send one via post tomorrow first class recorded.

 

thank you 

[dx100uk]

the guy with a flatbed has/had zero legal powers to do anything 

however the Hire Purchase Act (it WAS HP?)  gives the creditor certain powers to reclaim their goods

you've paid under 1/3rd, the goods thus were not protected.

 

but without issuing a default notice they can do nor devolve any power

 

[agilenerd]

I’ve sent SAR request to every email I have for them and also sent the email @BankFodder asked me to last night.

assuming they sell the car and my some or all of my possessions disappear/get sold etc would I need to claim via small claims court? I’m assuming I will need to get some legal advice!

 

thanks 

[BankFodder]

I'm going to say now that I think you are in a very difficult position.

We made noises about attacking the finance company under the FCA regulations – but I expect it would be a nonstarter – broadly because you appear to have been hiding your car out of the way and trying to evade the collection which I understand was entirely legitimate in the circumstances.

I certainly do think that they had a responsibility to take care of your personal possessions in the car, but I suppose you haven't helped yourself by trying to avoid a liability in respect of the collection of the vehicle. This might help to effect the attitude of a court towards your claim.

You haven't given us any particular detail about the items – just very vague references to jewellery and a couple of laptops et cetera but you haven't given us any idea as to the value.

If you bring a claim on this then you would certainly need to bring it in the small claims court – and if you want to get professional legal advice then by all means do although it will cost you an arm and a leg and I can tell you that you won't find any firm of solicitors who will be particularly enthusiastic about helping you.

If we suggest that you have a chance of taking this forward then your best bet would be to do it yourself and with our support.

[agilenerd]

Yeah I can see that me hiding the car isn't going to help my case at all

Do you think a judge would be a bit more lenient towards this considering its law for me to now stay at home under the new national lockdown it would be illegal and immoral for me to travel over 2.5hrs to collect my goods? (I think)

 

in regards to the list of items, these are a few I know to be in the car I can provide receipts for them too
Macbook pro - approx £1300
HP 840G4 - Approx £1000
Samsung A40 - Approx £300
Versace Chain - Approx - 200
Ipad Pro - Approx £700
A4 Printer - approx - £40
Various Paperwork and personal information

[BankFodder]

Well it's a fair bit of money – so it might be worth making a claim for it.

On the other hand, it's a fair bit of money and it might be worth their while defending.

I hope you are my me saying, but I suspect that the defence would point out that you have already shown evidence of dishonesty by attempting to hide the vehicle from a legitimate collection and therefore why should they accept your word that these items are fairly high value were actually left in the car.

I think the defence would probably ask the judge to consider what reasonable person would keep these valuable and highly stealable items in a vehicle which they were parking well away from their own home – and even if the car was parked outside your own home, what reasonable person would risk keeping such a collection of valuable and desirable items in the vehicle when they could quite easily have been stored at home.

So I think your problem is not that you don't have a good legal basis for making a claim – I think you do. However, I think you will problem is one of credibility and getting a judge to accept that you really did store these items of this value in the vehicle.

As I said, you could bring the claim that I don't reckon your chances are no better than 50-50 – which are not odds that I like.

You're talking about forking out for the claim fee for a claim of £3000 – and then when it goes to a hearing, as it undoubtedly would, you would have to pay the additional fee. I'm not sure what these two fees are that I can imagine that they would come to £300 or more and that would pose an additional risk factor for you.

I think you would have to provide some independent evidence that the vehicle did actually contain these items.
I think it's very possible that in the scheme of things, you're going to find that these items disappear before you can even begin to take any control over them.

[agilenerd]

Completely understandable I can understand why the judge may sway in startlines favour... 

 

I do have a ace up my sleeve (hopefully) I can ping my macbook,and ipad to the location they're in so once they hit the auction house I could take a print screen to prove that these are infact there in the car at the time the car arrived at the auction house.

I'm more bothered about getting those devices back than anything else which is roughly £2k with an initial court fee of £105 which isn't an issue if you think it's worth it.

 

end of the day if its not worth it i'll take it on the chin and learn a big lesson from all of this.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Well get that evidence and come back here. That could be very helpful.

In the meantime, make sure everybody has been served with a notice – and if possible, identifying the particular items