VCS 2*Vanishing Windscreen PCN's - now Claimform - Brook Retail Car Park, Ruislip ***Claim Dismissed***

[FTMDave]

No, just ignore what I wrote about signage, it wasn't important, it was just an example.  I meant that the letters should have separate styles and be sent with a gap between them to try to outfox Simon, which you've done excellently.

 

If there are no last-minute comments from the regulars, then send that one off on Wednesday with the usual free CoP.

[EL21]

Great thank you! I’ll post it this afternoon unless someone has a last minute suggestion to change anything.

 

thanks for help! I’ve also used a different font and different colour envelope #everylittlehelps  

[EL21]

Opps got too eager and got the week wrong. Will post next Wednesday (still in time for the 11th). 

 

Once again, if anyone has feedback then happy to hear it, else will post next Wednesday.

 

[EL21]

Today two letters arrived from ELMS legal - notification of instruction.

 

Presumably ignore?

ELMS legal notification of instruction.pdf

[dx100uk]

well as elms have dumped VCS 3 times this week already i'm surprised.

 

 

[EL21]

I have a bit of down time so wanted to do a little 'in between stages' research.

 

I can't see planning permission on the hillingdon.gov portal. Do you have any suggestion on how I could find out about the status of their signage? 

 

[dx100uk]

go ring the council.

[EL21]

Ah, I feel foolish now, didn't even cross my mind to ring someone. Thanks dx! 

[lookinforinfo]

Many councils have an online planning portal that you can look at for information.

[EL21]

Here we go - two claimforms came through. They are identical so the information below is accurate for both:

 

Name of the Claimant : VCS

 

Claimants Solicitors: Elms Legal Limited

 

Date of issue – 24th May 2021

 

Date for AOS - 11th June 2021 (that's 19 days from date of issue) 

 

Date to submit Defence - 25th June  (you add a further 14 calendar days to the AOS date - note: should this date fall on a W/End, you must file by 4pm Friday)

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The Claim is for a breach of contract for breaching the terms and conditions set on private land. The Defendant's vehice, xxxxx, was identified in the Brook Retail Park on the 22/12/2020 in breach of the advertised terms and conditions; namely Parked in a restricted / prohibited area.

 

2.At all material times the Defendant was the registered keeper and/or driver.

 

3.The terms and conditions upon entering private land were clearly displayed at the entrance and in prominent locations. The sign was the offer and the act of entering private land was the acceptance of the offer hereby entering into a contract by conduct.

 

4.The signs specifically detail all the terms and conditions and the consequences of failure to comply, namely a parking charge notice will be issued, and the Defendant has failed to settle the outstanding liability.

 

The Claimant seeks the recovery of the parking charge notice, contractual costs and interest.  

 

What is the value of the claim?

Amount Claimed: £160

court fees: £35

legal rep fees: £50

Total Amount: £245

[dx100uk]

 pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.
.
 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]
 

…………...

 

 

 

dx

[EL21]

Was unaware I'd started new thread, thx for fixing dx.

 

MCOL being funny so will try again Monday for the AOS. Will also get CPR 31:14 going to Elms on Monday.

 

Thanks for info - happy bank holiday!

[lookinforinfo]

As Monday is a Bank holiday, MCOL may still be playing up on Monday.

The defence at this stage is just a three line catch all so as not to alert them to your actual Witness Statement that comes later and the latter  is the full on knock them out of the ring defence.

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, EL21 said:

Was unaware I'd started new thread, thx for fixing dx.

 

MCOL being funny so will try again Monday for the AOS. Will also get CPR 31:14 going to Elms on Monday.

 

Thanks for info - happy bank holiday!

 

you didnt.... that was a copy and paste from someones elses thread....didnt see that line....

[FTMDave]

I know in post 1 you referred to your parents as "old" and "stressed".

 

Now, Simple Simon has often taken motorists all the way to a court case, definitely.

 

However, one of his disgraceful tactics, unfortunately allowed by the court system, is to issue these claims, see if there is a robust defence, and if there is then run away.

 

It's a numbers game.  Starting these claims only costs £25 and takes under a minute using a computer as they're all cut & paste jobs.  Presumably, sadly, enough motorists wet themselves at the thought of ***COURT***!!!, pay Simon his £100 plus his £25 real costs plus the £60 Unicorn Food Tax he makes up, which means he has cash left over for another two-and-a-bit claims.

 

So if you keep putting in all the excellent work you have so far, Simon may well discontinue the cases further down the line - though that is not guaranteed of course.

[EL21]

Hello everyone - thanks for your responses and I hope you had a nice bank holiday 

 

I've done the MCOL 

 

Does anyone have 2 mins to glance over the CPR 31:14 letter that I edited from your template, just to make sure I did it right? (I've taken out our personal info).

 

If yes, then I'll pop it down to the post office for the free certificate of posting before 6pm today! 

 

@FTMDave - They've accepted we're in it for the long haul and I also think it's likely we'll end up in court because Simple Simon thinks it's pay day with 2 cars...

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

you dont edit the CPR

and you read what is in red at the top carefully...template removed

[EL21]

Sorry dx! I did read the red but got the wrong end of the stick - when it said 'link to the letter' - I thought that meant don't copy & paste content into a comment, but to upload it and by 'edit' I meant my amended version like it said to do in red. But don't worry - I'll go post it now! Thanks for taking it down, sorry again.

[EL21]

Have a reply from Elms regarding the CPR. I hope it's okay to attach the documents but please remove if not.

 

Attached is:

 

1) VCS contract with landowner: article 7 says the duration of the contract and it seems to me it's expired on 8th June 2018. Do you agree? The last sentence is weirdly worded.

 

2) VCS Boundary Plan: I don't believe this is a document from the council? I think I should check with them.  

 

3) A private land sign: I am almost certain this is not from the site itself but I am planning on going back to the site to take more photos and will check.

 

Additionally they sent some photos and all the previous correspondence (NtK, final reminder, final final reminder etc).

 

 

vcs contract.pdf VCS Boundary Plan1.pdf Private land sign.pdf

 

Taking all of the above into consideration. Here is my proposed defence:

 

1)      The defendant was the recorded keeper of vehicle.

2)      The claimant has no authority from the landowner to bring this claim, so does not have standing.

3)      The defendant did not enter into a contract with the claimant.

4)      In any event, the defendant did not breach any terms of such a contract.

5)      The claimant has inflated their claim.

 

i) Any amendments or suggestions?

ii) Am I okay to send the same thing for both defences? I assume yes as it's generic.

 

P.S An edit: I wasn't sure whether to add in anything about PoFA because I'm not sure if they were compliant or not. 

[FTMDave]

Yes, the defences just need to be generic.

 

Just a question.  Did Simon's Particulars of Claim come divided into paragraphs (more or less) or just as a solid wall of text?  I ask as the Site Team are doing some work on defences at the moment, including tying the defence to the PoC.

[EL21]

Hi Dave,

 

I've attached a screenshot of the format so you can see for yourself (minus the reg plate) but it's a solid wall of text and the wording is taken verbatim from previous demand letters.

 

I have until 25th June to file the defence - do you think mine is good to go or shall I hold off for a bit longer? 

 

Particulars of Claim screenshot.pdf

Edited June 9, 2021 by FTMDave
Personal details showing. The OP PM'd me (!) a PDF version which I have added instead

[FTMDave]

I'm amazed that Elms replied to the CPR request, normally they make up an excuse to not do so.

 

I agree with you about the contract.  Nice own goal from VCS there.

 

No point involving the council in the boundary plan, the boundary is an agreement between two private companies.

 

Yes, go back and photograph everything.

 

The defence looks good, but hang on till Sunday before filing, as the Site Team are working on defences.  I promise to get back to you on Sunday.

[EL21]

Hi Dave - sounds good! No rush, I have a few more weeks before the deadline so happy to hold off. Looking forward to seeing what the Site Team comes up with!

[lookinforinfo]

I had a look late last night at the contract.

 

There is nothing that links GBR Phoenix to the actual land owner that is supposed to be Zurich. As GBR Phoenix are now in liquidation, one wonders who VCS have a contract with now.

 

On top of that, the signature of the GBR director is illegible and should therefore have been capitalised.  Very strange as FTMDave said that Elms would have sent you anything let alone a contract like that. On second thoughts, it is Elms.

[FTMDave]

If you have a look at "Q2" in  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-jun-2021/  you'll see an updated suggested defence ... very similar to the one you've already sussed out yourself!