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    • Particular Of claim   1. By an agreement between Lloyds Banking Group & the defendant on or around 13/05/2003 (“the agreement”) Lloyds Banking Group agreed to loan the defendant monies.   2. The defendant did not pay the instalments as they fell due. The agreement was terminated following service of a default notice.   3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant.   4. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS: 1) £8704.42 2) COSTS     Defence   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claims are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1.The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) – failed to serve a letter of claim pre-claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is admitted that the claimant has sent details of a current account with an unknown account number but has no connection to this this claim or alleged debt. It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the details of alleged debt the claimant refers to nor have they referred to any account number within its particulars. I have therefore sought clarity from the claimant and requested further in formation which at this time they failed to comply to my request.   3. Paragraph 2 is noted. However, as above the alleged debt is still unknown and further I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.   4.Paragraph 3 is noted. As above as the debt is unknown its immaterial and I do not recall ever receiving this notice pursuant to sec136 of the Law of Property Act 1925.   5. On receipt of this claim I sent CPR 31.14 and section 77 request. The claimant has failed to comply with either requests and in particular my section 77 request and provide a valid copy of the agreement and therefore remains in default of my request and is prevented from enforcing the agreement they wish to rely on.   7. It is therefore not accepted with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:-   a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and c) Show or evidence service of a Default Notice/Notice of Sums in Arrears, d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.               1. I have in the past had financial dealings with Lloyds Banking Group. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought clarity from the claimant.   2. However, I do not recall ever receiving a Default Notice pursuant to sec 87(1) CCA1974.
    • the court should have written to you acknowledging your defence filing?   dx  
    • thanks, will do.   For some reason, I can't delete the first attachment
    • 2 posts hidden docx files contain all your pers details in file properties/info just post them here as plain copy and paste text next time. or PDF don't use docx.   dx  
    • Yes that’s correct.  A secured loan not a mortgage.    thanks for confirming original creditors don’t do court. But if they pass debts to a collection agency, can they apply for a CCJ by default as I’m overseas and then apply for a charging order against the property?
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    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

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Help please I am at my whits end...

We ordered a fridge freezer on 13/11/2020 for delivery 14-21 days. 

I called currys after we had had no contact and the Black Friday cancelling orders hit the headlines on 9/12. They assured me stock was coming in that evening and would receive and email to confirm delivery date no email. 
after many calls to them and lots of broken promises of delivery I was informed it was a broken order. Has anyone heard of this before? They promised a manager to call back This was on 20/12 and have heard nothing. Their phone line now just cuts me off. I cannot go into store as in a tier 4 area. Have tried contacting them through Twitter but to be honest they just promised another stock intake date and when I asked if it was still a broken order they replied just ‘yes’.. with no resolution. So am now stuck. I have raised a compliant via resolver and that states to wait 2 weeks. Just wondered if any other avenues I can try? 
Thank you in advance

 

jo

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What most people don't appreciate is that buried in their terms and conditions – and this will be the same with other retailers as well such as Amazon – is that the contract is not made and the goods are not yours until they are actually selected for delivery.
Unfair? – Yes very.

Presumably you've actually paid for this fridge freezer. Has the money been taken from your credit card account – debit card – how did you pay?

What are you doing for a fridge freezer at the moment?

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Thank you for replying.

 

We paid by gift cards purchased through my work for an extra 8% off.  The gift cards are used so it has not been refunded into there 
I do appreciate that the contract is not made however they have my money and they have promised 2 delivery dates before telling me it’s a broken order and failed to call me back to resolve.  
I have a small fridge freezer that we are using so not desperate and willing to wait for it to be in stock again ( they have had 2 deliveries already and dates verbally promised each time but as mine is broken order it was not recognised as an order) as it’s still in broken order state it’s not moving forward and won’t move forward until it is fixed at their end.

 

It’s the different story each time and the not knowing that is this agent going to resolve this. 
 

 

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Generally speaking, when goods are purchased on credit cards or debit cards, the money is not taken until the day of delivery. On that basis there is no contract.

In your case, it seems to me that you have parted with the gift tokens – in other words they have your money as you have rightly said.

I think there is an extremely good argument for saying that there is a contract. Is there an explanation of what they mean by "broken order"?

 

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Also, have you checked the current price of the item you ordered? I've been hearing stories that people ordered a few weeks ago and those orders haven't been delivered and now they are finding that the prices of been going down for January

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The broken order, they say, is an order that has got stuck in their system and hasn’t got as far as creating a delivery reference so when it comes in stock our order isn’t there to fulfill. 
 

The current price isn’t cheaper. 

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Well I'm afraid it's a difficult situation. You can cancel the order and then order a second one but then you would have to pay on your debit card and then recover the money. We can help you do that but of course it wouldn't be straightforward and they would try to resist. Yours is not the first case with pretty well identical fact that we have had on this forum.

Alternatively, you can source one elsewhere and even if it was more money we would help you get your money back from Currys for the broken contract – but once again you would be out of pocket for a while and of course Currys would spend more energy and more money trying to avoid their obligations to you then it would cost them to sort it out correctly.

What is the latest promise that you have had?

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The problem with Currys PC/Dixons is that they pretty well control a monopoly now so there's absolutely no incentive for them to do a decent job – and by and large they simply cause problems and certainly when something goes wrong they seem to have no idea how to recover from it.

Not only do they have a monopoly in terms of being the principal supplier nationally, but also when people buy gift vouchers then you have parted with your money and that effectively grants Currys PC World a further monopoly and even less incentive to do anything right because – hey! We've got your money, what do we care?

And of course the 8% discount that they give you really doesn't mean an awful lot. They've had the money in the bank – earning interest and not only that they have got you trapped as a customer.
I know the gift vouchers came from work and so I suppose it's a decent gesture from the workplace – but for Currys PC world it simply a nice earner and doesn't require very much effort and doesn't cause any particular stress on their systems

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Just now, BankFodder said:

Well I'm afraid it's a difficult situation. You can cancel the order and then order a second one but then you would have to pay on your debit card and then recover the money. We can help you do that but of course it wouldn't be straightforward and they would try to resist. Yours is not the first case with pretty well identical fact that we have had on this forum.

Alternatively, you can source one elsewhere and even if it was more money we would help you get your money back from Currys for the broken contract – but once again you would be out of pocket for a while and of course Currys would spend more energy and more money trying to avoid their obligations to you then it would cost them to sort it out correctly.

What is the latest promise that you had?

The latest was delivery 19th December and on the 20th we were told it was a broken order and someone would get back to us.  Over Twitter today they said it will be delivered on 6th January and I asked if the broken order had been fixed and they then confirmed it was still a broken order? So that left me even more confused. I have not had a reply after that. It seems to be one vicious circle.

 

Thank you for your help. Will see if I can speak to a manager on Monday and if not will go down the route of cancelling and trying to get money back... although really don’t want it on gift cards as they were only purchased for buying the fridge trying to be savvy! 

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I think that if you have to cancel the order, then I think your position should be that you don't want the gift cards but you want the full and discounted value.

I'm quite sure that that is an arguable position that of course it does mean that you wouldn't get your money back quickly and you would probably have to fight for it by bringing a small claim in the County Court. I expect that you don't really want to go to these lengths although it would bring you a lot of satisfaction – and me too.

As you can see, as soon as it comes to gift vouchers, then they have you in a vice and there's very little you can do unless you are prepared to go to a lot of effort and confrontation. I have no doubt but that you would win butt you might think it's more trouble than it's worth

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I would certain have satisfaction with that too and if it come to it would appreciate your help to do this.  
 

Thank you for this advice very helpful 

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