@FirstResFinance - Car problems -First Response Finance - hire purchase

[Crunk]

Hi 
I purchased a car on hire purchase 2 weeks ago. It’s an electric Nissan: the range should be about 159miles fully charged. The day after I purchased I noticed that the Battery was only showing 11 bars of health, the warranty would be void if I did not get a full Nissan service within 2 weeks and there was only 89 miles range  on the battery fully charged. 

 

I then got it checked by Nissan and they told me I had a faulty cell on the battery which had reduced the range. They will not give me this report on paper unless I pay £180. 

 

The car also broke down on me and I had to call rac. This was when I had 30 miles range and it went to 0 in 1 mile and conked out. I was left stranded for 4 hours waiting for a pickup.

 

So I emailed the dealer to reject the car based on not fit for purpose, faulty battery does not have the range required to fulfil its use. 
 

The dealer said no. So I then contacted the finance company I pay for hp with. They sent a car inspection service out: they did certain tests and said while they can’t do a full battery test they can see there is greatly reduced range and cell 82 is faulty.

they gave the report to the dealer and said we are returning the car. The dealer said no he wants 14 days to do his own inspection. The car finance company said I have to do it:

it’s being picked up tomorrow from my house.

I don’t have time for all of this. I got this 11k car to Commute to work in January. I just want it returned and to find another car ASAP.

Do I have to now give him 14 days? Can I just reject now? It will not be in my possession from tomorrow

[dx100uk]

No you are quite correct .

and the finance company..name them!!..should know better!!

 

DX

[Crunk]

Thank you for that.

It’s first response finance.

 

They have been very helpful but this is not what they told me would happen

they said if the report (which they paid for) came back in my favour I could return the car and that would be that.

 

Now I need to give him 14 days to prove me wrong.

 

what should I do?

Call first response finance tomorrow and just say car gone and I am done?

[dx100uk]

i would threaten them with a section 75 claim under the consumer credit Act which their HP agreement they signed upto is gov't by.

 

the FCA/FOS would be rather displeased to learn a licenced creditor is ignoring your clear rights under that and your short term right to reject under the consumer rights act.

after all its THEIR CAR.

[BankFodder]

And who is the dealer?

You should make sure that you write to the dealer and the hire purchase company and assert your right to reject under the consumer rights act. Do this immediately – even if later on you decide not to reject it, at least you have reserved your position.

Second thing is that you will find that the finance company will try to lead around by the nose. They will insist on inspections, confirmations, et cetera – none of which they are entitled to do.

You need to stand your ground and make it clear that you are not interested in playing the game and that you are taking control. This means that you are entitled to reject the car immediately and out of hand. The consumer rights act assumes that any item which demonstrates a defect within the first 30 days was sold that way.
The dealer is not entitled to say that they are carrying out their own inspection in order to obstruct your rights – and neither is the hire purchase company.

They can certainly carry out their inspections but they do it on their own time. It has nothing to do with you.

At the very least you should give the finance company notice that you are making a formal complaint and you are putting it before the ombudsman. That probably won't faze them very much but at least it is the beginning of pressure.

I how much are you actually out of pocket at the moment?

Once they have a car, I would refuse to accept it back – unless they are prepared to offer you a substantial discount and compensation for the trouble – and this has to be something that you agree with, not something that you are pushed into as a result of their gesture of goodwill.

Once you don't have a car any more, what are you going to do while you are waiting to sort it out?

Start keeping a detailed note of all the inconvenience that you suffer and any expenses to which you are put.

Don't forget that you are completely in the right – and what you are experiencing him is the typical reluctance/dragging of feet that they will try to employ against you to eventually tire you out so that eventually you relinquish control


 

[BankFodder]

First Response Finance Ltd

 

 

Quote

Putting service before profit 

We put customers at the heart of everything that we do; helping you, our customer, as much as we can before, during and after your agreement will make us stand out from the competition. We don’t think like most finance companies and we don’t want to.

Our unique way of thinking and doing business is one of the reasons we were voted Car Dealer Magazine’s “Sub-Prime Finance Provider of the Year” 2016, 2017, 2018 & 2020!

Our excellent customer service means we're also rated as the UK’s favourite car finance company (lender) on Review Centre under the category ‘car loans’. To top that, we've won the Feefo Gold Trusted Service Award two years running, and our now proud holders of a Feefo Platinum Trusted Service Award!

 

 

 

https://www.firstresponsefinance.co.uk/

 

 

[Crunk]

Hi 

 

thanks for the responses.

 

I rejected the car formally in writing 2 days after getting the car. The dealership said no so the finance company took over.

 

First response finance then sent their independent inspection team toll who didn’t have battery testing equipment but he said it’s probably the battery and he can see that the range is wrong. I also showed them my recovery documents from where the car broke down.

 

The car is now gone. It was just collected on a flat bed truck and it’s in it’s way to the dealer. 
 

the finance company is insisting he now has 14 days to prove my claim wrong. A solicitor also told me it’s the finance companies car and I don’t have the same right to reject as it’s no my right it’s theirs.

 

I need a new car in the next 10 days for work.

 

[BankFodder]

Which solicitor told you that?

[Crunk]

It was answers.com 

 

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ME: I reported the fault within 2 days. Then the finance company sent an independent vehicle inspection company to my house who said it was “probably” a faulty battery and that cell 82 is faulty which has greatly reduced the range. The finance company then told the dealer and he said he now wants 14 days to inspect himself which the finance company has agreed to. Can u refuse this and reject the car... it’s being collected tomorrow. And returned to dealer so he can have inspected:

 

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SOLICITOR: Technically the finance company have a legal right over the car so they can make that choice.

 

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ME: Damn. So I’m stuck and just have no rights and have to just wait with no car and paying a finance agreement? I need car before jan 15th for my job

 

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SOLICITOR: Very sorry to say but yes, it is unfortunate the car was on HP. If it were a private cash buy it would be your decision not the finance company. Speak with them to see if they will suspend payments until,the car is sorted as it was there choice to go this route.

 

[BankFodder]

Well you had better take your choice – but I suggest that instead of using "answers.com" you start off by looking at the consumer rights act

 

Quote

Contracts covered by this Chapter

(1)This Chapter applies to a contract for a trader to supply goods to a consumer.

(2)It applies only if the contract is one of these (defined for the purposes of this Part in sections 5 to 8)—

(a)a sales contract;

(b)a contract for the hire of goods;

(c)a hire-purchase agreement;

(d)a contract for transfer of goods

 

 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/3/enacted

 

It is absolutely true that the initial contract is between the finance company and the dealer. The dealer has effectively sold the vehicle to the finance company. The finance company is not a consumer and so therefore they don't take the benefit of the consumer rights act unless they have in place a special agreement with the dealer – and of course they would be extremely stupid not to have done.

However, you are a consumer and effectively your contract amounts eventually to a sales contract with the finance company and under the 2015 act, your relationship to them in respect of defective goods is exactly the same as if you had bought the car from the dealer.

Send them both a letter asserting your short-term right to reject. Point out the finance company that they have a duty under the consumer rights act to act as if they are directly the dealer of the car to you. It's not about being a question of a contract of sale. It is all about having "supplied" the vehicle.

The finance company should know this – and they may well do but they prefer to ignore their obligations. Who knows.

You've got enough evidence to show that there is a defect and not only that the defect is a substantial defect and you've only had the car for a couple of weeks. Clearly it is not of satisfactory quality, you are rejecting it under the consumer rights act and you want an immediate refund.

Unfortunately, I expect that they will still drag their feet. They don't like being held to account and they don't eventually want a dodgy vehicle on their hands – and nor does the dealer.

If it is simply a question of the battery then presumably it can be fully addressed by putting in a completely new battery – and maybe you might want to consider settling for this plus a reduction in price.

This might be a very good move for you because it would sort the problem out quickly. Don't forget that if you are eventually successful in rejecting the vehicle, you are still then going to have to you source a new vehicle from somewhere else. At least this way you might get a vehicle with a new battery and a reduced price.

[BankFodder]

I notice that you don't seem to have given us the name of the dealer. Maybe you are trying to protect them

[Crunk]

No not at all sorry I didn't read that. It's windmill autos limited in Bedford. Horrible company.

This is the finance companies response....

 

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Hi,

 

Thank you for your email, and thank you for confirming that the vehicle has now been collected.

 

In answer to your question, now that we have established that you have the right to reject the vehicle in accordance with the Consumer Rights Act, we are given 14 days in which to complete the cancellation of your agreement. During this 14 days the dealership are entitled to dispute our decision and findings if they choose to do so. This is their legal right as described in the Consumer Rights Act 2015 also, and is not a choice that First Response Finance have made or a matter of company policy.

 

In order to dispute our decision the dealership will need to provide compelling evidence from an independent third party that either disproves our findings, or shows that the vehicle faults were not present on the vehicle at the point of sale and were instead caused by tampering, driver detriment, accident damage or any other mitigating factor. Please be assured that if the dealership are unable to do this, or do not provide evidence within the 14 days period then your agreement will be cancelled as previously stated. 

 

I appreciate that the matter has taken longer than anticipated to resolve, however my investigations are bound by the relevant legislation and I am not able to deny the dealership their legal right to dispute our findings.

 

I hope this email explains the reasons behind the 14 day period. Should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to get back in contact.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Well at least they seem to be coming on board, but they are quite wrong that they are bound to give the dealer 14 days. That might be in respect of some private industry arrangement they have with them – but at the end of the day that's not your problem. They are bound very clearly by the statutory provisions of the consumer rights act in respect of their relationship with you.

As I've already said, there is a presumption that the faults were present and the high poses company must organise the reimbursement immediately. 14 days is the outside limit for cancellation and reimbursement by them – not by the dealer.

The 14 days runs from the date that you have given them notice of your right to reject which I understand expires about now.

They're not allowed to "take longer than anticipated" because this amounts to a breach of their statutory obligations.

The problem of course is that you are slap bang in the middle of the holiday period where people aren't around and it will be difficult to get any final resolution before next week.

I suggest that you email them immediately and tell them that you don't accept their position and that their statutory obligations are very clear and if they feel that they are in some way entitled to an exception then they should let you know immediately where that statutory exception exists. (We would be interested to see this as well).

Also, you can tell them that you are being put to expense and inconvenience and tell them that this email (that you are sending now) is your formal complaint which you want to put before the ombudsman.

I'm afraid that they really won't be much else to do. Let's know what happens next Monday or Tuesday

 

[Crunk]

I think it comes down to thid

 

Quote

Protection for motor dealers

The “reversal of the burden of proof” still remains with the dealer; should a customer return a vehicle for a refund, the dealer must show any fault was not there at the time of purchase. It is essential to take preventative measures to protect yourself from repaying the full purchase price of a vehicle and have it returned with significant faults if they didn’t exist when the car was sold.

If dealers can prove the vehicle did not have the fault at purchase, they will not be liable under the Act. It’s important, therefore, that motor dealers:

• have a robust pre-sales check sheet in place, verified by an auditable PDI check and confirmed with the customer at vehicle handover .
• sell vehicles with a brand new MOT.
• review their pre-delivery processes to ensure they have evidence that the vehicle they are selling is not faulty at the point-of-sale.
• Ensure that sales team fully understands the rights of both parties under the new Act.

 

he is allowed the chance to prove the faults were not there when the car was sold which he won’t be able to do.

[BankFodder]

He was only allowed the chance – of course, but the time he takes to do that must be in his own time. There is no basis for extending the 14 days. He has to complete his investigation within the 14 days.

The 14 days, by the way, is not a legal limit but it is generally reckoned to be the outside limit and after that you would certainly have a basis for complaint. You can see that the finance company is already vexed by the fact that the standard time period has been exceeded.

Of course this all to do with the dealer dragging their heels – and as you have pointed out, they have already indicated that they are not prepared to cooperate.

[BankFodder]

I don't know if you've looked round at the reviews, but the Google reviews are interesting

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=windmill+autos+limited+in+Bedford&oq=windmill+autos+limited+in+Bedford&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i22i29i30.463j0j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#lrd=0x4877c930b3bc8411:0xbb8e8bc9f1bbca9d,1,,,

 

Four stars apparently – but out of 203 reviews, the vast majority of them are one star and only a very few are four-star or better.

I think when you look at starred reviews, you shouldn't only look at the total assessment, but you need to look at the composition of those reviews – and for windmill autos Ltd, it doesn't make very good reading. Have you looked on trust pilot?
 

[Crunk]

Yep found this today. Google stars seem to be a bit skewed...

 

on phone to consumer helpline at the moment.... 

 

finance company won’t budge. I need to get another car very soon for work...

 

I don’t trust anything this dealer says. They all have friends in the industry. He can probably get a report to say all is ok..

[ukshane4life]

that why alot of cars get a new mot with no advisory's when they should fail or have notes theres a few in my area where they was selling a getz 2yrs ago my dad wanted me to look at and it had cracked cv boot and 2 tyres near limit and pads and disc need doing and mot showed clean and when i told manager he said my mot guy would never lie to me about need work doing and i just laughed and said i know how garages work you dick and he shut up

 

and i viewed a c2 last year and 2 back tyres where cracked and i mean really cracked and engine was pissing oil from rocker cover and it passed it mot 

Edited January 2, 2021 by ukshane4life