Initial Parking ANPR PCN - no cash and tried to use app but no internet signal - appeal refused

[Rebecca H]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm sure I will have to pay this and have gone though their appeal process, but lost.

 

On 6th August we parked our car at Porthluney Beach Carpark at Caerhays.

We didn't have any change as we're used to paying for parking using apps etc and also because we had got out of the habit of having cash as no one was accepting it during lockdown.

 

I had the app and proceeded to put 3 hours parking on the car. 

I took a screenshot and it said processing payment as I had an E showing on my phone and only 1 bar of signal that came and went, 

 

I was worried that there wouldn't be enough signal to make the transaction work.

It was taking ages and despite walking around trying to get a better signal, there was nothing.

I decided to leave a note on the car saying that I had no change and couldn't pay as had no signal and so decided to hope for the best.  Unfortunately it was a camera operated car park. 

On 17th August I received a fine for £100.

I sent in a letter appealing with the screenshots showing that I had tried to pay and explained the situation.

This didn't work and now I have a fine for £170.

 

There's probably nothing to be done but it does seem unfair as they must know there is very little reception there.

I wasn't the only one having problems. 

I have sent in the screenshots showing my intentions but it hasn't made any difference, a very expensive trip out!

I wonder if anyone knows if there's anything I can do?

Thank you in advance,

Rebecca

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

1st

please complete this:

Have you received a Parking Ticket? - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

and also scan up to ONE multipage PDF all the letters in/out so far including your Appeal

 

2nd it is NOT a fine, only councils/courts can Fine you for Parking infringements and those being on public land/highways.

 

Private Parking Companies managing private land, whereby they might or might not have an enforceable contract with the landowner or their agent ...can only issue a speculative invoices.. claiming the driver not the keeper broke some imaginary contract by driving on to the land. that is also incumbent upon if they have the correct planning permission for their signs, cameras and poles from the council and if the said contract is carefully explained by signs to the driver in or before they enter such premises or land.

 

there are many ways to skin these cats rather than blindly paying up.

 

for future readers, never appeal a speculative invoice, you shoot yourself in the foot by identifying the driver and lose your protection under  POFA 2012 

 

[Rebecca H]

Thank you for your speedy response.

 

I have a PDF of everything which I have attached as we got sent a code and had to log into their website.

 

They do suggest that we can contact a citizens advice bureau but it's virtually impossible to contact anyone there as they are so busy right now. 

 

The odd thing is that in the photo they sent of their parking charges, the machines have black covers over them. I actually don't remember that.

 

I think it is fair to say that I did try and pay, but they are choosing to ignore this.

They admit in the response to the appeal that I had acted in good faith etc but despite this, had parked without paying. 

it really is crazy!

Thanks you

Rebecca

 

car park photos PDF.pdf

 

1/ The date of Infringement 9th August 2020

 

2/Date On the NTK 14th August 2020

 

3/Date received 18th August 2020

 

4/ Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of the freedom of Information Act 2012? Yes

 

5/ Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6/ Have you appealed? Yes

 

Have you had a response? Yes

 

7/ Who is the parking company Initial Parking

 

8/ Where exactly [ carpark name and town] Porthluney carpark, Caerhays

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under? Popla/Independant Appeals Service. This seems to be under the BPA

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

One more letter received, please see attached

parking PDF.pdf

 

Attached is the PDF of attempted purchase of parking tickets  and my initial post 

 

Hi everyone,

 

I'm sure I will have to pay this and have gone though their appeal process, but lost.

 

On 6th August we parked our car at Porthluney Beach Carpark at Caerhays. We didn't have any change as we're used to paying for parking using apps etc and also because we had got out of the habit of having cash as no one was accepting it during lockdown.

 

I had the app and proceeded to put 3 hours parking on the car. I took a screenshot and it said processing payment as I had an E showing on my phone and only 1 bar of signal that came and went, I was worried that there wouldn't be enough signal to make the transaction work. It was taking ages and despite walking around trying to get a better signal, there was nothing.

I decided to leave a note on the car saying that I had no change and couldn't pay as had no signal and so decided to hope for the best.  Unfortunately it was a camera operated car park. 

On 17th August I received a fine for £100. I sent in a letter appealing with the screenshots showing that I had tried to pay and explained the situation. This didn't work and now I have a fine for £170.

 

There's probably nothing to be done but it does seem unfair as they must know there is very little reception there. I wasn't the only one having problems. 

I have sent in the screenshots showing my intentions but it hasn't made any difference, a very expensive trip out!

I wonder if anyone knows if there's anything I can do?

 

Thank you in advance,

Rebecca

screenshots of parking payments.pdf

[FTMDave]

What the hell does "Please park considerably" mean?!  Yes, they really wrote that on one of the signs!

[dx100uk]

thread tidied.

[dx100uk]

you really must get reading up on just about any other thread in this forum yours is in.

 

its not a fine and it most certainly does not need to be blindly paid.

 

to me it looks like you've had help from another forum as theres lots of info they've sent you that wouldn't normally be sent other than out side of an sar?

so where did you receive your past help from?

 

and forget CAB...totally useless with regard to scam parking invoices.

 

yours is now not the next move.

[Gick]

dx I think that you mean,  'its not a fine and it most certainly does Not need to be blindly paid'

[Rebecca H]

Hi,

Not really sure what you mean as haven't posted on any other forum about the parking fine.
If there's something I should read, then please point me in the right direction, otherwise my partner will pay it as he doesn't think there's anything to be done

[honeybee13]

There's plenty to be done, please don't pay. It isn't a fine, it's a speculative invoice as we call them.

 

If you can find the time to read around our Private Parking forum, particularly threads/topics about Initial Parking, you'll get an idea of how these people operate. Are you aware that many or most of them are ex-clampers? That gives you an idea of their business ethics.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

One to bear in mind, is this:  You say you had minimal signal at the location, so its a remote location, chances are like some areas in Wales its a NOT SPOT, and no one gets a signal. that being so they are on a sticky wicket with the Just pay App, as no signal means no can pay, if ticket machine covered, impossible to pay, thereby any Contract the deem to have is void through non Performance, it  being impossible to pass consideration as in payment to the PPC. with that in mind they would be silly to attempt court on those facts. Any mileage in that folks?  Lets see what else the Team comes up with, but don't go paying a bean to them.

[FTMDave]

Remember the only person who can force you to pay this money is a judge after you've lost a court case.  I've done a web search and can't find any examples of Initial Parking taking anyone to court.

 

You've attempted to pay, both while you were in the car park and later, and can prove it.

 

From their photos am I right in thinking they covered the machines so you couldn't pay by cash or card, only by app or phone?  If so they are making it as difficult as possible to pay and this is all extra ammo for you.

 

EDIT: Am I also right in thinking that they have added Unicorn Food Tax to their claim and are demanding £170 rather than £100?

Edited December 30, 2020 by FTMDave

[unclebulgaria67]

According to the parking operator there were working  pay and display machines where you could pay by card or cash.

 

Is this is a correct statement ?

 

Definitely don't pay this, but curious about what payment options were actually available on the day.

[Rebecca H]

Hi 
I actually can't remember as I didn't have any money on me and used the app as i use the Just park app regularly.

 

[FTMDave]

Can you answer the questions in post 12 please?

[Rebecca H]

There may have been pay and display machines there but as I didn't have no money I didn't see. if they were working. I just used the app. Bearing in mind that we have become used to not carrying cash as no one wants to take it, I was out of the habit of having any on me!