PCS/CST ANPR PCN PAPLOC - On the roadside - Summerville Road, Bradford, BD7 1PX

[Chimichanga]

Hello, it’s been a while . I see you’re all still hard at it helping us all fight parking charges. Thank you. 

 

Trying to help a friend and I have a quick question. Does a Letter Before Claim have to actually state that it is a letter before claim?

 

Does ‘Please respond to this Letter of Claim’ in the final paragraph count?

 

I don’t want to give incorrect advice so asking the experts here    
 

Thank you!

[BankFodder]

It will do – but it's not great.

Does the letter give the facts of what the claim is about, how much is being claimed – and a 14 day deadline and referred to court action that will be taken at the expiry of that deadline – at least 14 days?

[Chimichanga]

Thank you BankFodder

 

The letter gives the PCN number, date it relates to, reg number, the location (which is a street name)  and the amount. There is no reference to what the actual infringement was only that WY  Parking Enforcement have instructed CST Law to take legal action to recover the amount owed. 
 

as it is the car was parked on a public road not on private property so they cannot claim as far as I’m aware. 
 

it gives 30 days to respond by letter or using the form on the back of the letter or to pay the amount in full (with all the extras they slapped on top as usual). 
 

‘Any reply received outside of the 30 days may not be considered as legal proceedings are likely to have been issued’ is that last thing in the letter, which makes me think that this is the letter before claim. 

 

Thank you

[BankFodder]

Why don't you just post up the letter in PDF format?

We are really doing things a long distance here.

You are referring to something on behalf of a friend, and you are also referring to a letter whose contents we don't really know and we haven't seen and you are asking us to give opinions about.

Post up the letter and then we can understand properly

[dx100uk]

can you please do this:

Have you received a Parking Ticket? - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

 

and copy up all sides of everything he has to date please

one multipage PDF ONLY

read our upload guide carefully.

 

dx

 

 

[Chimichanga]

Thanks BankFodder and dx100uk. 

 

Yes of course will post up everything to date including recent letter (apologies I did try to post it up earlier but it’s not the correct format on my phone) will try from laptop. 
 

Again thanks... will be back with completed ‘form’ above and all info. 

[Chimichanga]

Please find Q'aire answers below.

 

I'm struggling to upload a PDF of all the letters together as it exceeds the max allowed. I have uploaded his original PCN and the main pages of the LBCCC for now. Should I do the others in separate posts? There are two debt collection letters and the final big document which is (as I suspect) the LBCCC plus all the reply forms etc.

 

As ever, your help is much appreciated.

 

 1 Date of the infringement

16/08/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

22/08/2019
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

3 Date received

26/08/2019
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Yes on reverse of PCN
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Not on the PCN - but on reading the reverse photographic evidence is available to view at www.parkingcsl.co.uk/pay  I haven't seen the photograph as yet. Was unsure of the implications of visiting the website?
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

Give answer here
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Parking Collection Services

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

On the roadside - Summerville Road, Bradford, BD7 1PX
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA

PCN.pdf LBCCC.pdf

[dx100uk]

use the sites in the upload guide 

pdfreducer/merger.

 

[dx100uk]

so dr+ dca hiding behind a new name of pcs.

ignore them totally 

 

thats a std CST law PAPLOC so you must reply with a snotty letter

if you use our search top right

or FTMDAVE pops in

you can find many CST snotty letters here which take the ...out of them nicely

[dx100uk]

go onto googleearth and post a link of exactly where the car was parked

i suspect it wasn't on the highway but a forecourt

 

dx

 

[FTMDave]

The difficulty with the choice of snotty letter is that you are posting on the site rather than your friend, so we don't know what went on.  The fleecers reckon the vehicle caused an obstruction.  What exactly happened?

 

Please also answer dx's question in post 10.

 

There's no problem if you access the fleecers' site to see photos, in fact it may clarify matters.

Edited December 30, 2020 by FTMDave

[Chimichanga]

Thanks dx100uk I will give the uploads a go ( I should be good at that by now but it's been a while, forgive me  ). Here's the link:  

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Summerville+Rd,+Bradford+BD7+1PX/@53.7903956,-1.7724903,44m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x487be6b62c5bf83d:0x5b04a31a8df464e6!8m2!3d53.7894865!4d-1.7709028.

 

I also nipped down tonight and took some photographs of the signage and Summerville Road. There are no signs on the side of the road where the vehicle was parked.

 

He's adamant he was parked on the road and from their pictures (attached to this post) you can just make out the bollard in the road and the speed bump to the left of one of the pictures.

 

The pictures are incredibly bad and look to have been cropped? I suspect because they show he was parked on the road.

 

FTMDave, yes I completely understand what you're saying, but he's young and asked me to help as you guys have helped me previously (successfully) I have a tiny bit of experience thanks to that help.

 

He didn't park in their 'forecourt' he was parked down the side as you may be able to make out from the pictures.

 

I appreciate it's hard if you're not familiar with the area.

When you look on google maps you'll see a black car parked next to what looks like a large white container?

 

His car was parked further back, a little closer to the speed bump.

 

I will attempt all uploads tomorrow morning and will have a look at the snotty CST letters too, thanks dx100uk.

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

Pictures removed

pop them in one multip age pdf

dont force people to use up data

use pdf then they can choose

[Chimichanga]

Apologies, I went through several attempts at attaching and then removing and forgot to convert to PDF.

 

Here you go.  PCS Pictures.pdf

[FTMDave]

OK, how about this as an attempt at a snotty letter?

 

 

Dear CST Law,

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  In these dark days of panic buying and supermarket shortages, extra toilet paper is extremely welcome.

 

The car was parked on a public road thickos, which means your clients have no right to claim a bean from me.  Not even a good try, more an epic fail from them.

 

You scored a big own goal when you tried to sneak in £64 Unicorn Food Tax.  Remember DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 24 April?  Not very happy with these made up amounts, was he?

 

Your clients can either drop this madness now or get a good hiding in court.  Up to them.  I quite fancy a well overdue holiday once all this COVID stuff is over and your clients' financing it after an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) would do nicely.

 

That's not to mention GDPR.  Fancy getting my details from the DVLA when the car wasn't even parked in the car park they "manage" (ho, ho!)  There's £500 holiday spending money in it for me from a GDPR claim too.

 

COPIED TO PARKING COLLECTION SERVICES"

 

 

The reason I say to send to PCS too is that I'm sure that CST Law would love their clients to start a hopeless court case - after all, it's £££££ in for them in any case.

 

Wait & see what the other regulars think, then tell your mate to send off the two letters from a post office either late tomorrow or Saturday, and get two free Certificates of Posting.

[dx100uk]

he was clearly parked where the roofed UK flag mini is on google earth

their pictures don't really 'prove' it, but...

 

so was partially on the pavement 

that is deemed as private property 

so thus the claim of obstruction is correct too.

 

the exact sign as in their photos is on the right end wall of AMC foods and on most walls up the road too.

 

not that he has to pay it mind..

 

so this is another case of a vanishing windscreen ticket and the NTK should not have been sent before day 29 till day 56.

 

they've screwed up on both 

NTK issued too early

no PCN left on windscreen

 

as with all CST fake PAPLOC's

FTMDAVE ...insult to be jesus out of them...

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FTMDave]

Great detective work dx.

 

What do you reckon?  Send the snotty letter as is, even if it's not entirely accurate, as after all CST Law won't have a clue and if PCS do continue there is back-up regarding how they screwed up with the NTD & NTK as you sussed out, plus cards won't be played too early?

 

Or do you think we should change it and ridicule their stupidity with the paperwork?

 

I have an encyclopedia-length list of things to do tomorrow as the boss in my life, my 21-year-old son, wants his mates round for New Year as all bars & restaurants are closed due to COVID.  My second job is to compose snotty letters this evening   

[dx100uk]

i would be removing the parked on a public highway ref at  start and end

 

and beef up the suing under breach of GDPR/DVLA ..

 

their client has failed to comply to pofa 2012/BPA/ISA guidelines as they failed to issue a windscreen PCN this is proved by their own photos of the incident. 

the breaking of pofa 2012 

[FTMDave]

Superb dx

[FTMDave]

Revised snottiness

 

 

Dear CST Law,

 

cheers for your Letter Before Claim.  In these dark days of panic buying and supermarket shortages, extra toilet paper is extremely welcome.

 

Your clients were too bone idle to affix a windscreen NTD which is shown in their own photos!  Was it raining and were they worried about getting their hair wet?  Even the guidelines from your clients' mates in the BPA and the IPC insist on this, not to mention a proper law passed by parliament, the Protection of Freedoms Act.

 

You scored a big own goal when you tried to sneak in £64 Unicorn Food Tax.  Remember DDJ Harvey's judgement at Lewes on 24 April?  Not very happy with these made up amounts, was he?

 

Your clients can either drop this madness now or get a good hiding in court.  Up to them.  I quite fancy a well overdue holiday once all this COVID stuff is over and your clients' financing it after an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) would do nicely.

 

That's not to mention GDPR.  Fancy getting my details from the DVLA when they couldn't be pestered to move their little finger to issue the most basic documents in the time frame necessary to comply with the law.  Ho! Ho! Ho!  There's £500 holiday spending money in it for me from a GDPR claim too.

 

COPIED TO PARKING COLLECTION SERVICES"

 

 

It's almost New Year, so no reason to rush to the post office, the letters can be sent on Saturday, which also gives other forum regulars the chance to tweak the letters. 

 

I love the way forum members knock ideas off each other so that the end result is always improved.  Thanks again to dx.

[Chimichanga]

Thanks FTMDave and dx100uk

 

You really meant it when you said snotty . Should he send that verbatim? I must confess I’m slightly nervous for him
 

So (for my own knowledge) they should have issued a windscreen ticket in this instance? Is this because of the nature of the ‘offence’?

 

I thought that if a windscreen ticket hadn’t been issued that the NTK had to be sent within 14 days?

 

I only have experience of Gladstone’s and ANPR thus far (that was enough to send my mind off the rails) so I’m scraping the barrel a bit . 
 

Again, thanks for your endless wisdom and help, I’ll get him to send your letter. 

[dx100uk]

the usual reason for a vanishing windscreen ticket is the person taking the photos is not an employee of the parking company, but someone local they give backhanders too to take pictures and dob people in.

 

Both parties are thus breaking at least the data protection rules and possibly tax and employment ones too.

 

by issuing a windscreen PCN someone has to ID themselves as the issuing operator on the ticket, even just by an operator number , but as they don't have one nor any blank PCN's anyway...the scam would unravel very quickly for both if they did.

 

if you go back and read our sticky, it explains ANPR/windscreen time limits for things like the NTK etc.

 

a PPC can't simply 'choose' which time limit or process they like and try and bend the rules...they must abide by the correct process.

 

the current dodge is they call them MNPR's, Manual Number Plate Recognition. but in all truth if a human operator at the scene takes photos, its not an MNPR - thats only for use via remote CCTV operation AFAIK.

 

yes send the letter as is.

[FTMDave]

There's a reason for the "snotty letter" strategy.

 

These companies send out LBCs as a fishing exercise.  They hope for a start that motorists won't know the law, will take the Unicorn Food Tax seriously and will cough up before the amount further "increases" especially with COURT on the horizon.  Then there are those who don't reply, indeed might have moved, and therefore may not reply to a claim form giving the PPC a default victory.

 

The last thing these companies want is someone who replies assertively, shows that they know what they're talking about, and would be big trouble in court.  Remember in small claims that even if the PPC wins they'll never cover their costs. 

 

Of course there are no guarantees, but experience has shown it's the best strategy.

 

Plus it's fun to take the wee wee out of these parasites

 

So, yes, get your mate to send the two letters off today or on Saturday, with two free CoPs.

Edited December 31, 2020 by FTMDave

[Chimichanga]

Thanks for the clarity dx100uk and FTMDave. 
 

I have to say I’ve missed your banter, you do make me smile. 
 

Thank you, will get writing (to them both) and post on Saturday with proof of postage for them too. 
 

Best wishes for the new year, see you on the other side!