VCS Vanishing Windscreen MNPR PCN - Brook Retail Car Park, Ruislip, HA4 0LN

[VCSMugging]

NTK in the post this morning is the first I knew of a PCN from VCS.

 

Wednesday morning, parked in one of the many empty spaces in the car park before going straight over to the car dealership.

Dealership and retail park accessed via the same entrance from the road.

 

A lap of the forecourt followed by a lap inside the dealer showroom itself, don't remember how long exactly probably 20mins or so, before jumping back in the car and driving off without a second thought.

 

Did notice a chap parked a few spaces away when I arrived and still there as I left. 

Obvious now he was VCS who took the photos in the NTK.

 

Looked at the myparkingcharge site listed in the NTK and it had a couple of additional photos. 

One showed a ticket on my windscreen which I don't recall seeing at the time and not seen since.

 

Was about to pay the PCN, I did after all use the car park without checking the signage and without entering any of the shops, not that I knew at the time.

 

Any advice from the knowledgeable folks here or is it simply a case of my mistake and pay up?

 

VCS PCN NTK -.pdf

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

Have you received a Parking Ticket? - Private Land Parking Enforcement - Consumer Action Group

 

dx

 

[VCSMugging]

For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions....

 

1 The date of infringement?

09/12/2020
 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?]

No
 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

has there been a response?

N/A
 

please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

Yes
 

what date is on it

11/12/2020
 

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

Yes
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide]

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?]

No
 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

N/A
 

5 Who is the parking company?

Vehicle Control Services Limited
 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

Brook Retail Car Park, Ruislip, HA4 0LN

[dx100uk]

well if they are claiming there was a windscreen PCN then they have jumped too soon as the NTK should not be sent until 29 - 56 days as the speculative invoice attached to your windscreen gives you 28 days /

 

can you get those other photos up to PDF please?

 

looks like simple simon as screwed up as std for him.

 

 

[Gick]

Ah, the mystery of the disappearing ticket! This is one pantomime that has not been affected by Covid 19 restrictions. It is a well known product of VCS and runs hand in glove with an operator type parking enforcement.

 

As such they have sent the NTK too early to comply with the requirements of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012. The NTK should be received by the keeper NOT BEFORE 29 days of the so called infringement, nor after 56 days. This is to allow a DRIVER to pay the charge before further action, but not so long after that the matter could be forgotten.

 

They have treated it as an ANPR capture, which both from the angle of the photographs in your download and the illusive windscreen ticket it is not. Whatever you do, make no contact with VCS or any of their lackeys,  as in so doing you could unwittingly identify yourself as the driver which could take away some of the protections you have under POFA.

 

If the site is not too far from you, it would be worth re-visiting to both obtain photographs of ALL signs on site, particularly any at the entrance as you leave the highway and enter the private land. Also, visit the dealership and express possible interest in a vehicle, mentioning that you visited them a week ago.

 

Ask if they have CCTV covering the car park as your vehicle was interfered with whilst it was parked (this is not a lie because VCS claim that their operative attached a ticket to the windscreen) If they do have cameras that cover the area, give them the exact time that you were there and ask if they could check for you.

 

They may be reluctant to let you see the footage leading up to it due to GDPR, but if they find your vehicle, they may be willing to give you a copy of that section, which may show the ticket being removed by the operator after being photographed. You have nothing to lose by this request.  

 

Fill in the questionnaire posted by dx above so that advice from others can be tailored to your circumstance. 

 

Sorry, I was composing my post as you were submitting your answers to dx.

[VCSMugging]

dx, Gick, favourable outcome or not, it goes without saying but the giving of your time like this is very much appreciated.

Btw, the car in the background of the last photo is the one I suspect VCS were working from.

 

VCS Brook retail, Ruislip.pdf

Edited December 16, 2020 by VCSMugging

[lookinforinfo]

the NTK is not compliant either as it does not mention that the reason that the keeper can be held liable is because of the Protection of Freedom act . 

[brassnecked]

If no mention of POFA on their begging letter's than they can't use POFA, so later on you have a GDPR complaint to ICO regarding VCS and potentially a bill from yourself to Simple Simon for hios GDPR breach asking for Keeper Data outside POFA.

[cft]

The keeper said there was no Notice to Driver at the time, no ticket on the windscreen/car.  Would it not mean a 14 day limit for the Notice to Keeper to be issued to the keeper, which it has here?

Does POFA need to be specifically mentioned on the Notice to Keeper?  I would have thought just meeting the POFA criteria would validate the Notice to Keeper here.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

I'm confused, you've replied on VCSMugging's thread. Is there a reason for this please?

 

If you have a similar case, it's best to start a new thread of your own.

 

HB

[cft]

Hi HB, just trying to educate myself as the chances of being in a similar situation seem to be growing all the time, forewarned is forearmed as the saying goes.  There's a lot of advice out there, some agree some differ and it gets confusing after a bit.

Which, MSE, parkingcowboy, among others talk about a 14 day limit where there was no ticket.

I wasn't offering advice but sorry if that was what came across.

[honeybee13]

No problem, I just read it as a question.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

but was it

an ANPR capture...NO

was it MNPR (Manual number plate recognition) - yes

was there a windscreen ticket - yes.

 

so they cant use pofa

 

they know this as not only was there a windscreen PCN

the was also a second issues by post 3 days later.

 

simple simon and the people (probably not even a VCS employee) that sit in cars all day haven't a clue what they are doing here.

and they hope you don't either. and blindly think its a fine and be a nice little sheep and cough up 

 

 

 

 

[VCSMugging]

I don't have and never saw the physical windscreen PCN.  Still confused why they didn't just leave it on.  

Except for that one photo on myparkingcharge site, I wouldn't know it even existed.

 

I know Penalty Charge Notices are different but continuing to read around this whole thing, it seems wardens have the option of taking photo's for issuing a postal PenaltyCN within 14 days.

Does the PPC have to issue a physical PCN if their operative is on the ground as for MNPR?
 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

they are not wardens and they don't have to abide by the penalty charge rules they are for councils etc.

 

these are parking cowboys issuing speculative invoices and calling them parking charge notices.

plenty of vanishing pcn threads here already.

 

 

[VCSMugging]

Hope everyone managed to have a good Christmas given the circumstances.

 

Uploaded a pdf to show parking signage at the site.

 

VCS Brook retail, Ruislip Signage.pdf

 

Streetview of entrance to dealership/retail park from the main road.

1. Signage as seen from the road

2. Signage as posted on lampost in the car park

3. Approx. where keepers vehicle parked

4. Approx. where vcs vehicle/operative stationed

 

Going by vs. Ibbotson, the VCS operative had a duty to mitigate their loss but chose not to.

Edited December 26, 2020 by VCSMugging
clarify for accuracy

[brassnecked]

Hope you had a good Christmas Day, the entrance sign looks like Invitation to Treat rather than forming a contract, the second condtion about walking off site is unenforceable, after all someone could park, buy stuff in pets at home, then put it in the car and nip off site over the road, and the VCS goon arrives as you are leaving the car after placing the purchases in it PPCs have been smacked on that one, but doesn't look like any breach occurred  a picture of exactly where vehicle parked from inside the car parkwould be helpful, but those taken are already useful.

 

I'm sure the team will be on in due course as they regain their composure after the festivities, such as the Juntas have allowed.

[VCSMugging]

Brassnecked, thank you for the feedback and Juntas gave me a chuckle.  I've amended the pdf to include birdseye view of site and proximity of the dealership/forecourt visited. 

 

VCS Brook retail, Ruislip Signage rev2.pdf

 

VCS operative was sat in his car throughout arrival and departure so assumption would be they have video/photo of driver as there was nothing else in the as good as empty car park to occupy them.  A SAR should confirm what they have but no plans to contact them for anything at this point.

[brassnecked]

They have shot themselves in the foot with the vanishing ticket in some ways as well. wonder if they have ever tried to ticket cars on the dealership curtledge? as in visiting the dealer parked outside it.

[dx100uk]

cant use photo evidence of people to id the driver...against GDPR rules.

[brassnecked]

Would not go well for them if they did try that stunt, ICO would be all medieval on them for sure.

[BankFodder]

19 minutes ago, mallardgolf said:

Would you believe - I had the same notice arrive today too! Please let me know how you got on?

 

Please would you start your own thread and tell us your story there. It's very confusing to combine two separate issues in the same thread.

[dx100uk]

create you own topic please by hitting create in the top red banner