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Issues with a 2nd hand car trader.


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Can anyone help. I bought a used car a few months ago. Started having issues within the 4th week. Trader has repaired the car but has not replaced all that was needed. So I refused the car. I was trying to negotiate a refund (I know I wouldn't get a full refund) but the trader was saying throughout the negotiation process that I'm liable for storage fees. I have spoken with consumer advice throughout and they have said im not liable as I have rejected the car already. We have agreed on a price unfortunately for me its not what I wanted but needs must (no car since 19th October) After speaking with consumer advice again they told me to include in the response email that for acceptance of the refund but for the trader to confirm there were no fees. In his response he said that I have to wait a week for a refund but no mention of any fees. I responded with please confirm there are no fees and I'm yet to receive a response. I dont want to make another unnecessary journey when I get there to find out that he has included them. Where do I stand? I know the only other route is court (I'm halfway filling this out) but I'm in need of some advice? Any anyone help? Tia (new member)

 

Can anyone help.

I bought a used car a few months ago. Started having issues within the 4th week.
Trader has repaired the car but has not replaced all that was needed. So I refused the car.

I was trying to negotiate a refund (I know I wouldn't get a full refund) but the trader was saying throughout the negotiation process that I'm liable for storage fees.

I have spoken with consumer advice throughout and they have said im not liable as I have rejected the car already.

We have agreed on a price unfortunately for me its not what I wanted but needs must (no car since 19th October)

After speaking with consumer advice again they told me to include in the response email that for acceptance of the refund but for the trader to confirm there were no fees.

In his response he said that I have to wait a week for a refund but no mention of any fees.

I responded with please confirm there are no fees and I'm yet to receive a response.

I dont want to make another unnecessary journey when I get there to find out that he has included them.

 

Where do I stand?
I know the only other route is court (I'm halfway filling this out) but I'm in need of some advice?

Any anyone help? Tia (new member)

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Firstly, we can help you – but please will you make your posts in a way which is easy for other people to read. Otherwise you will discourage people from giving you the help and support that you need.

Well spaced and properly punctuated please.

 

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we need to know the name of the dealer, when you bought the car, when the faults developed, what kind of faults? What might be the value of any repairs? What kind of car? What mileage? And of course how much did you pay?

At least that.

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My apologies. Many Thanks for the reply. I will start with the following timeline if this helps.

 

VW Touran 1.9tdi 2007 with mileage of 113k'ish on the clock.

 

Bought the car on 18th August for £2000 from a trader in peterbough 11FG Limited. At this time the trader said he could provide proof a cambelt and waterpump replacement. To which i never received. 

 

Within the 1st week of ownership car brokedown and trader replaced battery and was all good.

 

Around the end of september car started to struggle to get into 3rd gear and transmission sounded really noisey.

 

Booked in with my local mechanic for cambelt and water pump change and to look at the gear changing issue and he said that the gearbox, clutch and flywheel would need replacing. Total cost would be roughly £900.

 

Spoke with trader and he agreed to repair. Collected a few days later on 23 Oct. Waited a month in total for repairs , with me emailing him every week asking for updates and the trader was very sketchy on replies. Finally got the ok to collect car and upon collection there was an immobiliser issue and only the gearbox and clutch were replaced. I needed more advice and rang consumer advice and rejected the vehicle as it was evident that the repair was not completed properly and another had came up.

 

Long story short, been trying to negotiate from the 24th November and in the initial email the trader has stated that storage fees apply. I have sent various letters recorded delivery and out of the 3 sent i have had 2 undelivered.

 

I have agreed to take his last offer of £1700 bearing in mine that i can't have this hanging over my head any longer and needing a car. Me and my partner are key workers and also have 4 young children. I'm not liable for these fees but what i don't want is to travel again and find that he has taken off the fees. I have had no reponse to my last email. All i want it clarification on the fees but as usual the trader is being sketchy. I do not want the court route but will take the action if necessary. Can i email him again for a response? i need some advice on what to next? Please help?

 

Many Thanks

 

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Please check back here for a reply tomorrow.

How far away do you live from the dealer?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Bansky39 said:

in the initial email the trader has stated that storage fees apply.

bloke is having a  laugh..storage fees...:pound:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you for your explanation.
One thing I'm not clear about, is where is the car now? Is it with the dealer or is it with you?

I understand that you bought the car and there was a promise of a certificate showing that a water pump and a cam belt have been replaced but these were never received. I understand in fact that this work has not been done.

I understand that you return the car and that the clutch and gearbox had been replaced. Is this correct? Are you sure they have been replaced or is this simply what you've been told?

You refer to a figure of £1700. Is this the sum of money which you have been offered by way of a refund for the entire vehicle?

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I'm afraid that there's not a lot of good news about this firm of dealers.

You bought the car from  11FG LIMITED which seem to have a website at http://11fglimited.flexwebsites.co.uk/ . Of course this is not their own dedicated website, this is a website provided by a website provider which seems to specialise in providing websites for the motor trade.
They are not very extensive – but they give a motor trader an Internet presence without having to go into the business of designing their own website and dealing with all the logistics of server hosting and updating and all the other general things which come with running a website.
Nothing wrong with this approach of course. Very sensible for small business – but just to let you know.

You can find 11FG LIMITED registered at Companies House –

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/12430093

 

The company is owned and run by Kabeer HUSSAIN

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/officers/A14Uu26X9k2rXNqgkRYFW4K5Kz4/appointments

however, if you have a look you will find that the company has been in existence for barely a year.

If you then have a look at the owner of the company Kabeer Hussain, you will find that he was previously the owner/director of:

KAR4U LTD which traded out of the same address in Peterborough  https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11447832

 

KAR4U LTD was also only in existence for about a year as a limited liability company.

Looking around the Internet, KAR4U LTD seems previously to have traded under the name of KAR4U and then  Carz 4 U going back at least 2015 – before they registered as KAR4U LTD in 2019.

 

I haven't looked very extensively at the reviews – but certainly these reviews are pretty striking

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealership/carz-4-u-peterborough-peterborough-cambridgeshire-england

 

It seems that they previously may also have traded as Quality Used Cars in Peterborough.

I see that there is at least one person who is talking of bringing a legal action against them a couple of years ago. We don't know if that legal action occurred or what the outcome was. We don't know if there were other legal actions against this business, but it is interesting that they appear to have stopped trading as a non-incorporated business and started incorporating – under to limited liability names each one only lasting about a year – although the present one 11FG LIMITED is still continuing.

What we are seeing here is typical of "Phoenixing" – but this is simply speculation, and it is entirely possible that there are legitimate reasons for this but the poor reviews and the name changes are certainly quite disconcerting.

 

What all this means to you is that you need to think very carefully about the kind of action that you take, because even if you begin a legal action, you could find that there would be difficulty in enforcing a judgement.

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Many Thanks for the reply, My apologies for missing these few points.

 

A few answers to your previous questions:

 

1. The car is with the trader and has been since 21st Oct.

2. The cambelt and water pump has been changed and paid for by me at the time of diagnosis for the gearbox, dual mass flywheel and clutch issue.

3. I was shown a receipt totally the value of £500 for a gearbox and clutch replacement. Trader was even driving the car whilst i was on the phone to consumer advice. Basically he was hassling me to take the car back but i was checking out my options as i was not satisfied with the repair. It was evident that the dual mass wasn't replaced.

4.Yes £1700 is the total figure for the car in terms of a refund. But he is implying that i have storages also. I rejected the car on 24th November and there was no mention of storage fees at this time and i have been trying to negotiate a sum as i will be out of pocket for the cambelt and water pump replacement.

 

On the 28th November i did travel to get a refund but at this time i was offered a sum of £1500 which we could not agree on a final figure and i felt bullied so left the premises. Over the course of that saturday i was constantly hounded by the trader into making a decision.

 

Hope this helps a little.

 

Many Thanks

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So you pay for the cam belt and the water pump – how much did you pay for these? And who did the work?
I understand that you are promised a certificate by the dealer that this work had been done and you hadn't received it – so you put the work in hand yourself. Is this correct?

Sorry but I'm finding your account seems to be out of step, out of time and a bit confusing.

Then you left the car with the trader for a replacement gearbox and clutch – but the only evidence you've seen that this work was actually carried out, was that you were shown a receipt – by the dealer who is causing this problem.

So what I'm trying to find out is how much are you out of pocket altogether? I gather that you are probably out of pocket by the £2000 for the cost of the vehicle plus the money you spent on the cam belt and water pump which is done by a third party garage.

 

I understand that you have been offered £1700 refund but this may be subject to storage charges.

At one time you did actually travel to the dealer to be given a refund but he was only prepared to offer you £1500 which you refused.

 

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23 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

So you pay for the cam belt and the water pump – how much did you pay for these? And who did the work?
I understand that you are promised a certificate by the dealer that this work had been done and you hadn't received it – so you put the work in hand yourself. Is this correct?

Sorry but I'm finding your account seems to be out of step, out of time and a bit confusing.

Then you left the car with the trader for a replacement gearbox and clutch – but the only evidence you've seen that this work was actually carried out, was that you were shown a receipt – by the dealer who is causing this problem.

So what I'm trying to find out is how much are you out of pocket altogether? I gather that you are probably out of pocket by the £2000 for the cost of the vehicle plus the money you spent on the cam belt and water pump which is done by a third party garage.

 

I understand that you have been offered £1700 refund but this may be subject to storage charges.

At one time you did actually travel to the dealer to be given a refund but he was only prepared to offer you £1500 which you refused

 

My apologies i'm just a little angry at the whole situation i will try to sum it a little below:

 

Yes i paid for the cambelt and water pump - Price was £378 and was fitted by my local mechanic and he is a VW specialist. Highly respected also.

 

Basically purchased car on 18th August.

 

Car booked in for cambelt and water pump around end of sept, same day had issues with gearbox and my mechanic said he would take a look at time of cambelt and waterpump.

 

I had to wait a couple of weeks as my mechanic had a week back log and was on holiday and car was used sparingly.

 

16th Oct - Cambelt and water pump changed and was evident that it needed doing. Mechanic showed me the belt which was spilt (unfortunately i do have this) when i collected car on 17th October my mechanic diagnosed the clutch, gearbox and flywheel issue.

 

At this time the trader was closed so i sent him an email on 18th detailing the issue. He agreed on 19th to repair and collect car on 21st Oct.

 

Car was collected on 21st Oct and i was told i will be contacted when car was repaired.

 

5 weeks later and various sketchy responses from the trader the car was ready to collect and i arranged for this on 24th November.

 

Upon entering premises trader was banging car with his fist and couldn't get car started, there was an immobiliser issue and advised me to wait another day for him to repair or a choice of another car. I declined both as by this time i could not trust him. I rang my mechanic to see if it would be an easy fix. 2 options either a key issue or an immobiliser issue and not a simple fix . My mechanic said to check to see what work had been done. Trader produced a receipt for £500 for clutch and gearbox. I relayed this info to my mechanic. He said get in car and see if the car rattles when clutch is dipped. I couldn't as the car couldn't be started and just as i was about to end the call the car started. I jumped in and done as my mechanic advised and the rattle was evident. My mechanic said that the dual mass flywheel had not been replaced. At this time i said to the trader i needed to get advice and rang consumer Advice.

 

Was hounded for a couple of hours whilst searching my options and eventually told him i wanted a refund. Arranged a date to come back with all documents etc and this was 28th November and this is time of the £1500 offer which i refused as he couldn't provide proof of a cambelt and water pump change.

 

Various emails have been corresponded between 28th November and now with the offer email consisting of 3 choices:

1. Collect Car

2. Choice of another car off forecourt

3. Refund of £1700

 

And storage fees apply of £20 per day.

 

I have reluctantly accepted the £1700 refund on the basis of that the storage fees are no included as i'm not liable for them. I'm yet to receive a response on this but he has said i need to travel up to get the refund on 18th December.

 

I have travelled once to collect car and once to collect 1st refund.

 

Currently i'm out of pocket for £2000 for the car, £378 for cambelt and water pump, 2 train journeys £30ish and various bus fares for me and my partner to and from work roughly £128 so far will still go up as i'm without a car.

 

Hope this helps a bit more. 

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Thank you.

I don't blame you for being angry. You have been thoroughly ripped off and frankly you are in danger of getting nothing – not the car, not the refund, not the repair money, not the travel money or anything else.

I'm afraid that having looked at some of the history of this dealer and the reviews, it doesn't make at all comfortable reading.

On one hand you have your rights – and they are completely clear. You are entitled to treat the contract as terminated and to recover the money you paid for it plus all of the ancillary losses that you have suffered including the repairs, train fares – et cetera.

If you decide to issue a small claim – and we would help you – you will win without any problem at all. You can claim all of your money plus interest.

However, enforcement will be a totally different matter. I haven't looked at the Registry Trust which is where you can find records of judgements and whether they have been satisfied or not satisfied but you may find other people have already sued this firm and haven't managed to get their money.
Asserting your rights in principle is always easy. Then enforcing your rights in order to get your money back is a completely different matter.

My suggestion would be to reduce your losses as much as possible and that is to do whatever it takes to get the refund – as much as is offered. If it is only £1700, get it. If they decide to deduct storage fees – then get whatever they are prepared to give you.

At least then that minimises the problem you have. If you only get, say, £1500 then consider suing the dealer for the rest. Once again, you will get full judgement for whatever sum use sue for but enforcement might be a problem – but at least if you can't eventually enforce, you will have lost a lot less – and also the cost of bringing a claim for this smaller sum will be much less. I estimate on the basis of what you say that you would be claiming for about £800.

One important aspect is that it would be better for you if you are claiming more than £600 because once you hit the £600 limit, you are then entitled to transfer the judgement up to the High Court for enforcement by High Court Enforcement Officers. These people have substantial powers and they don't mince around. They would be your best chance of enforcing a judgement. If you sue for less than £600 then you would only be able to instruct County Court bailiffs who are pussycats by comparison and probably would not be able to enforce the judgement.

On the basis that you are probably going to have to sue for something, you might as well minimise the problem – but keep it over £600.

If you go to collect the money then if I were you I would install a recording app on my mobile telephone and keep the telephone somewhere concealed where it can easily pick up sounds and record the entire conversation. Practice with the recording app before you go and use it.

It's entirely possible that the dealer will try to get you to sign a receipt for the money in which you agree that it is paid to you in "full and final settlement". Make sure that you record a conversation in which you say that you are not happy about agreeing to this and you are only doing it because you realise that you won't get the money any other way that that you believe that you are entitled to the money anyway.

Obviously, if you can avoid signing something then it would be better. However even if you sign, we can still help you assert your rights.

Let us know what you want to do. I'm very sorry but I think you've fallen into a bad trap. The less money one spends on a car, the more careful one needs to be. 55 miles is quite a distance and it's difficult to imagine that there aren't cars a lot closer to you.

We find on this forum that people buy very cheap second hand cars and a long way away – and forget to factor in that they will have to return to the dealer for any issues such as defects or faults which occur during a guarantee period – or more importantly – during the period of statutory protection which could be one year or two years or three years depending on the vehicle.

By the time all of these logistics are factored in, it becomes clear that a lot more money could have been spent on a second-hand car a lot closer to home so that the whole nuisance of it would have been much less.

Anyway you probably learned this lesson by now.

Let us know what you want to do. Going to the so-called "consumer advice" agencies is okay, they tell you what you are entitled to expect – but they never tell you about the pragmatics of achieving those expectations.


 

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