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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
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Royal Mail Postage Subsidies-Crafts-Chinese Online Sellers-Retailers-Jobs & More.


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Hi old Tawnyowl here with a thread that i want to know much more about and involves many countries.But mostly involves China.
Though i feel affects many people in other countries in many ways.
Well when something seems wrong it is usually clear to see and you have to say something.Usually after a little time things get put together the thread becomes clearer and all is revealed hopefully.
If i get things wrong which happens from time to time i welcome being told so.
But i will research what you might say as i hope others might research and help me get to the bottom of what is bothering me.
And who knows we might all realise what is happening and has happened over the years.
And learn a little.


Once i know what truly is happening my blood pressure will no doubt return to normal and  iwill fade away back to the shade of a far corner of the Bear Garden till the next time something bothers me.
Lets begin,well i had better start somewhere.
I am sure this thread could run for a while.


The story started this way a few years ago.
Old Tawnyowl set up a very small business crafting,making things and supplying small businesses with the materials to make things themselves.
Some going to the United States even and other far flung destinations.
It does not matter what i am supplying you could be crafting supplying,making anything.
This gave me great pleasure especially when young people who had never done anything like this before started and sometimes send me photographs of their work.
What surprised me was the quality they were producing after a short time and  beginning to sell.

I do not supply that much just a few genuine articles that i sell online.


Over the last couple of years i watched as the Chinese sellers arrived probably after seeing old Tawnyowl making a few pounds on a certain product.
But it is not the genuine article they are selling and anywhere near the same quality,though looks similar.And uses the same name.
Sometimes you can tell by the words they use or by looking at the product.
They try many things to make things look like they are produced,made in the UK.
You can mix words around carefully and try to fool people.And i dare say this can produce some sales.
But i enjoy a challenge and enjoy holding them off with the few products that i sell.

And as i experiment with a few tales from time to time you can tell sometimes that the Chinese sellers read their competitors articles.

 

Here we go with the next observation.
The sheer scale of the operation when they bring a product out is mind boggling.Pages and pages on online sites pushing local sellers far back.
Most countries are targeted,the same product appears everywhere at the same time.
With free postage.
Now i wondered how the hell do they get free postage on lightweight items into the UK or what is the deal with the Royal Mail.
I am trying to find out but cannot find the figures out,i really like figures, but am getting the impression the Royal Mail postmen are delivering lightweight items from China for about half a pence each when it costs you more than than 2.90 to post to the next town with your quality items.
So your Royal Mail postman is walking round delivering Chinese items that it has to be said are being subsidised by who i wonder and must be putting many thousands of workers out of a job.And has been for years.

 

As i understand things but am learning.
Some kind of United Nations agency.
The UPU is a 145-year-old agency that sets the prices of international mail, with the mandate of ensuring that global postage is affordable to all.
Do you agree that China is a developing country so deserves this subsidy.
They popped up on the moon the other day and are spreading out in many ways globally.
The huge factories making many millions for some in China surely cannot expect these subsidies across the world to continue.
Pay their workers more and compete fairly. Some night say times are changing and anyway Automation is taking over which it no doubt will.Massive changes are coming.

What is the future for the workers, UBI-Universal Basic Income  perhaps for all sooner or later.

 

Who wants to hear comment like this it is roughly saying i give up, let them take over the world or fight back.

Some must be having a right laugh.
 

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I have always tried to steer clear of stuff they [Chinese online sellers] can do. 
You cannot compete with subsidised products.


Royal Mail said the Universal Postal Union (UPU), a UN agency, sets limits on the rates that China pays for postage once it reaches the UK.
Well in my opinion if so the UPU needs a shake up.Workers,Retailers,Crafters need help here.
What do you think and why is it so hard to get figures from Royal Mail.The figures must be startling,guaranteed to  surprise you.How much would Royal Mail be receiving if no subsidies.

How many jobs would be created in Europe would be created if things were fair.

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As i say it is easy to be wrong have your say.

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I watched over the last month as another craft was taken over on pages and pages of cheap Chinese articles on a online site and across Europe probably across the world with free postage and local workers,crafters vanished back into the depths.


As i say have your say and lets try to get some figures,facts about jobs, retailers,crafters,postage and the Chinese way of doing business.

How much the subsidies are costing.
Sounds like changes are needed rapidly,  perhaps you think differently.
Perhaps you have been affected in some way pop your thoughts down.
Bye for now
Tawnyowl

Edited by Tawnyowl
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On 11/12/2020 at 14:16, Tawnyowl said:



Most countries are targeted,the same product appears everywhere at the same time.
With free postage.
Now i wondered how the hell do they get free postage on lightweight items into the UK or what is the deal with the Royal Mail.
I am trying to find out but cannot find the figures out,i really like figures, but am getting the impression the Royal Mail postmen are delivering lightweight items from China for about half a pence each when it costs you more than than 2.90 to post to the next town with your quality items.
So your Royal Mail postman is walking round delivering Chinese items that it has to be said are being subsidised by who i wonder and must be putting many thousands of workers out of a job.And has been for years.

 

 

 

 

Why do you assume that Royal Mail delivers it cheap or for nothing, rather than assume that the chinese suppliers absorb most or all of the cost?

 

I wouldn't spend too much time concerned by it.  China is the most powerful economy on earth and it's government doesn't really care about individuals or other countries - or what's fair and unfair.  And neither does the global economy - that's one of the reasons why we are where we are today.  It won't improve.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Manxman in exile said:

Hi  Manxman in exile.

Thanks for replying  i found your post very interesting and raises a few thoughts.

I am just trying to get to the bottom of it all which might take a little time then come to a final conclusion hopefully.

I will break your post down a little and try to  find a little info.

Some of it might be a little dated but might help a little.

And if my information is wrong which can happen just let me know.I will give the sources i quote from.

 

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Why do you assume that Royal Mail delivers it cheap or for nothing, rather than assume that the chinese suppliers absorb most or all of the cost?

Chinese Retailer are being offered hugely subsidised postal services known as “Terminal Dues” by the United Nation’s Universal Postal Union (UPU) allowing them to sell goods including postage from China to the UK for less than the stamp would cost a UK retailer to send the same item from the UK to the same customer.

United Nations UPU class China, the second biggest economy in the world, as a Category 3 Economy along side Gabon. This entitles Chinese online retailers huge international postal discounts. Packages can be sent to the UK for less than a penny. And it’s the UK mail service and the cost of our stamps that picks up the tab.

Souce

Stop subsidising Chinese Retailers post via United Nations Universal Postal Union (UPU) terminal dues.

http://www.vatfraud.org/blog/stop-subsidising-chinese-post-via-united-nations-universal-postal-union-upu-terminal-dues/#:~:text=The United National UPU subsidises,that UK Retailer are charged.&text=It would cost a UK,send them within the UK.

 

 

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I wouldn't spend too much time concerned by it.  China is the most powerful economy on earth and it's government doesn't really care about individuals or other countries - or what's fair and unfair. 

 

I understand the do not spend too much time consumed by it and the thought that China does not seem to care about individuals or other countries because it does seem that way.

It does not affect me i am getting closer to the end of my working life but it is what i have seen happening  to others that is bothering me.Which does not mean i am not going to take a few Chinese online sellers on i have not gone that soft yet.

 

Back to the story.

Perhaps in a rural area tonight or a city street somewhere small businesses are working with one or two or a few workers  who have built up something from scratch over months  a few years even and are beginning to  see the light at the end of the tunnel,excited even. Suddenly they find the light dimming and do not seem to have a voice.A poweful one anyway.Just have to take it on the chin.

What has happened to these businesses.

 

The way it is done i feel i have a rough idea.Some might i suppose say well toughen up that is business.

A business comes up with an idea taking weeks,months to come up with and all associated costs.Could be anything at all.They start selling and pick up a good few sales making a few hundred, many thousands even.Quality products.Many will know the warm feeling that gives you.

But far away in a distant land groups sat around a table have noticed this business and its product and sales and taking notice.

Within as little as a week or two or less the products are copied  using inferior fake materials and many times bogus words describing the product.And possible safety defects.

Then distributed across  the world with all postage heavily subsidised as has been the case for decades.

Then it is just a case of rinse and repeat.Move onto the next business.

Imagine how that must feel for the business.

For the sellers just another day at the office shaking hands and chuckling away as others ideas pay off.

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And neither does the global economy - that's one of the reasons why we are where we are today.  It won't improve.

I will have to research a little on that thought but very interesting.

As i have said thanks for your post  which was free the only post that is, is here in the Bear Garden for sure.

And as usual it is easy to make mistakes and if i have shout out and  let me know and have your say.

Bye for now.

Tawnyowl.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Tawnyowl
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I must admit, I did wonder how items coming from China, are often listed with free postage on Ebay !. 

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