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    • good i can see where you got that from  pers i'd put back, suitable adapted the line:   3.Throughout this period XXX only ever served estimated bills which were grossly over estimated with values unrelated to actual use. There was and still remains an unresolved dispute with XXX which was never resolved prior to the assignment of the alleged debt.
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    • I have had another good look around but still struggled to find any templates. I did find a defence on a thread that I have adapted below. I would greatly appreciate some input before I file it. Again, many thanks in advance.   Defence   1. I the Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   2. It is admitted that I have had a supply and service agreement with Co-operative Energy in the past. During the period, Co-operative Energy actively blocked me from hanging to a cheaper tariff or switching provider as there was an outstanding balance on the account.   3. Throughout this period Co-operative Energy served estimated bills. This is shown in the one copy of a bill that the claimant has been able to provide. The claimant has given no details as to the full breakdown of their claim and what dates it relates to, so I am unable to defend specifically until the claimant can particularise and quantify its pleadings.   4. Pursuant to OFGEM code of back billing rules the alleged charges are now over 12 months old and relate to charges which have not been billed correctly by Co-operative Energy and are therefore prevented from charging.   5. The claimant does not have access to the agreement nor was the Assignor required to retain a copy. Therefore their claim is unsubstantiated.   Pursuant to the civil procedure rules Practice Direction 16 (7.3) Where a claim is based upon a written agreement.   1) a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement,  the original(s) should be available at the hearing along with a complete breakdown of how the charges accrued by date and amount.   With the court’s permission the Claimant is put to strict proof to: -   a) show and disclose how the Defendant has entered into an agreement. b) show and disclose how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. c) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.   6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   7. It is therefore denied that the defendant is indebted to the claimant as alleged or at all.
    • why are you stuck with them?   do you not understand what i posted above?  
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Screwfix,Trade UK/Shoosmiths chasing Business a/c but no? Personal Guarantee


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ok thank you.

it was just that we usually see shoos try fly kites in scotland here.

 

so confirmed a letter of claim

and you must reply.

 

if you look here:

 

 

there are examples of how you need to reply

use our pack i attached earlier

pop it up here and we'll finalise it.

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok thanks, dx.

 

Until last Friday I was trying to establish what their bottom line was for settlement - whilst not accepting liability.  If it had been £1000 I would (probably!) have settled to save all this hassle and stress.  I'm really not keen to pay for someone else's misdemeanors when the amount is £1800, though.

They have taken so long to reply at each iteration that the legal timeframe of 30 days has now expired.

Should I now reply that I am seeking advice - or that I do not agree that I owe the debt?

 

Thanks

Edited by RS200Phil
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Well thats their problem..reply anyway

yours is to reply using our form in the manner of the examples .

 

Dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,

 

I'm really sorry, but I've bottled it.  I spoke to a local solicitor, whom I was going to ask to pen my response, to lend it gravitas.  They said that unfortunately they thought I would lose.  Given that this was an easy opportunity for them to earn out of it, which they declined, I don't feel I can expend any more time, stress or heartache on it.  I'm just going to bite the bullet and pay, despite the morals of the case.

 

This is a warning to any poor innocent soul who completes the Trade UK application form, as I for one find it totally misleading. 

 

I am so grateful to you guys for your time and support.  I shall make a contribution when I've had payday Friday :)

 

Compliments of the season to you all.

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don't be a mug!

all you are doing is funding them harassing lots of other people with the free money you are giving them.

 

simply fill out the form asking for the required documentation..like where is this signed PG??

it is immaterial you are outside of the 30days now.

 

if you want help with what to put and where ask...

don't bottle it just because you are afraid of a form and what to put!

your biggest issue is you've spoken to them and been taken in by their lies they wont repeat in a letter

i bet they are already lining up the free drinks down the pub awaiting you paying the bill...

 

as for that local solicitor...wants shooting!

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have to agree with dx100 - 

 

the info I gave you from one of my cases was from a barrister - who helped me - there is no personal guarantee where you sign on behalf of a company , and not in a personal capacity 

 

I gave up approaching solicitors for general information a long time ago - 

 

they are just picking on the easiest person to give in , if the company is still trading, even though in difficulty , they could pay or come to an arrangement to pay , how do you know , they are not paying or in an arrangement 

 

not only do they have to prove personal guarantee , they have to prove amount owing is genuine etc have you had a statement of account and copies of invoices to prove what the asked of you - 

 

as you said earlier 
 

In August 2019 the company defaulted on their account and in November 2020 the Trade UK solicitor chased me for the payment 

 

they tried the company for a year , then thought They would have a go at you - 

 

if they knew there was a valid personal guarantee , trust me , you would have been contacted September 2019 not one whole year later - they are trying it on 

 

I would bet money on a very well written response  with case law - would end further communications from them , they  know you are flustered and are playing on your fears 

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Hi both,

The reason i capitulated is because a relative is a solicitor for a large firm and she thought i would struggle.  That was why i rang the local firm at all. 

 

The concern was that if I made any fuss at all the reduced payment offer would be immediately withdrawn and presumably further charges added.

 

It would be little V large when it came to fighting it.

It was causing me great stress and upset so I just wanted to remove the problem.

I am still adamant that I did not know I was a guarantor. 

 

The company is no longer trading and I know that the one employee has no money at all. 

I believe it is currently the subject of a compulsory winding up order.

 

I do feel i want to take it further, but i have removed all risk that it will cost me any more now.

The first payment of 3 is now made.

 

I am very grateful to you both.

 

Perhaps i should have recruited one of you if you are qualified, as i do believe you (and i!) are right.

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3 minutes ago, RS200Phil said:

Hi both,

The reason i capitulated is because a relative is a solicitor for a large firm and she thought i would struggle.  That was why i rang the local firm at all. 

 

The concern was that if I made any fuss at all the reduced payment offer would be immediately withdrawn and presumably further charges added. - well they can't add anything

 

It would be little V large when it came to fighting it. - nope very simple.. where is the PG?

It was causing me great stress and upset so I just wanted to remove the problem. - no it wasn't, what you had been told which was BS was causing you the stress.

I am still adamant that I did not know I was a guarantor. - correct, means they can't do anything!

 

The company is no longer trading and I know that the one employee has no money at all. 

I believe it is currently the subject of a compulsory winding up order.

 

I do feel i want to take it further, but i have removed all risk that it will cost me any more now.

The first payment of 3 is now made. - mug go get it back !! and stop further payments

 

I am very grateful to you both.

 

Perhaps i should have recruited one of you if you are qualified, as i do believe you (and i!) are right.

we dont need to be qualified we go by years of experience here

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the help, Hammy. 

 

I tried in vain to find the supporting case study by typing verbatim the statute references.  What I found was unintelligible to me which is why I sought professional help. 

 

Had that solicitor agreed with my case there is no doubt whatsoever that I would have taken it forward - but she didn't, to her own cost.  I didn't want to keep asking these very helpful guys for more and more of their time and I couldn't expect them to write my letter for me.  That's why I sought to send my letter from a solicitor, to give my claim the gravitas it deserved.

 

It's very easy to be gung-ho when there isn't someone pointing a gun at your head.  I don't have the confidence or the competence to produce a strong case. 

 

I knew if I rejected the claim that they would come back heavy-handedly. All I could see was more rubbish nights worrying about it and increasing legal costs. 

 

I had negotiated almost 50% off the fee, to a point where I felt my legal fees might exceed that amount.

 

Anyway, I do really appreciate the time and advice of these two souls and I absolutely intend to follow it up at a point when I know Trade UK can't do anything to me.

 

I don't want to enter into a slanging match, so I'll leave it at that.  Thanks again both.  It's no fun being this side of the gun.

 

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There is and never was a gun at your head.

 

Go get your moneyback from your bank under chargeback if you paid via a card.

 

Im not sure what 'gun' you think they have and whatever magic bullet s its loaded with??

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I just mean a solicitor, who knows what he's doing (compared to me, not you!) and for whom the more time he spends on it, the more income he will expect.

 

I have spent hours trying to research this and I followed up fully on all of your advice,  which i greatly appreciated.  However, when two solicitors independently said i didn't have a case... i didn't dispute your assertions, i just felt i would face a fight and yet more stress, hopefully establishing that we are right. My 100% confidence dipped and nerve broke. Sorry. 

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how did you pay trade uk

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hi Phil,

 

We're all different and, if you choose to do what you think is best for you, that's entirely your prerogative.

 

Personally, I would have demanded sight of a binding PG. And if you want to challenge them on this now or any time further on, you can do so without prejudicing your position.

 

Do what you need to do but come back here for opinion and support anytime. 😎

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Thank you, Slick. 

I'm sure we are all equally deflated at my decision.

 

To cap it all, I am in the throes of being made redundant. 

If I were to lose my job through lack of time / effort / concentration on my programming, I would forfeit my redundancy pay; my statutory rights and employment record. 

 

A case such as this can become all-consuming, so that was a major element that played on my mind. 

There is no binding PG, I am personally totally convinced of that.

They just referenced what I had posted here as the PG.

 

I needed someone to act for me, I guess, but I wanted to seek top-line opinion (i.e. here) before I spent any working hours processing it with a solicitor. 

The rest, as you see, is history.

 

Hi dx,

I actually wrote to Shoo and said I would pay in 3 instalments as they proposed - which takes some of the sting out of it (but not  much!). 

 

Keeping my job and paying this, I will be far better off than if I lose the job!

 

My email never stated that I agreed with their claim, but I'm sure that in agreeing to pay I am conceding that. 

They wrote by return saying the first instalment is due on or before 31st December, so technically I committed to pay rather than actually paying, as I said earlier. 

 

You will appreciate I just want to close the study book at chapter 1 - I will have a lot of spare time and energy in a few months time. 

 

The way I feel at the moment is that I am prepared to temporarily let things slip, but I don't feel "finished" yet!

 

Cheers to all and compliments of the season to you.

 

Phil

 

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simply don't pay them.

stall it, you don't have to contact them at all.

 

they cannot harm your employment.

not sure where you are thinking they can.?

 

if you wish CAG to do the form simply ask, we've done hundreds of them.

 

chin up.

 

 

  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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