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    • I am going to try and explaine in full details from start to present and see if you have any advice for me on what i can do.   on 15/1/2021 16:25pm i was traveling along hazlebarrow Road wich is on my estate at around 30mph, its a tight road with cars parked along the left hand side, as i proceeded through, a van ( which was parked on my left hand side, facing towards me) pulled out from the side of the road, he stopped the van wich resulted in the van being at an angled stationary position on the road. I breaked immediately but the ice and snow skidded my tyers, i skidded into the drivers side of his van, my car bounced off his van and sent my vehicle head first into the back of a parked car ( wich was originally parked at the back of the van before he set off from the side of the road. I will refer to the van driver as MR S. ( im going to attatch a street view picture and diagram which will be more helpful in understanding how the accident accured ect) .    The owner of the parked car, which i will refer to as Mr T came out of his house. Myself, mr S and mr T exchanged details and took photos, then i left the scene as my first concern, understandably was to contact my midwife and the hospital. I live just round the corner from the scene of the accident so i slowly drove my car to my property.   I contacted Go skippy the next day 16/1/21 and informed them of the accident and gave them all the details ect.   by the following monday 18/1/21 i had a call from AX who said they was dealing with my claim as go skippy will not deal with it as i am third party insured. Over the next few days, i complied with their requests ( gave them a written statment of what happened, sent them pictures of the damage to my vehicle and MR S van ect).   Then on the 19/1/21 AX contacted me again and asked if i need a curtesy vehicle, my first response was ' how much will that cost me?' Of which she replied ' nothing because your insurance covers the cost'. I agreed to the curtesy vehicle and the vehicle was delivered to me on the 20/1/21.    Over the coming weeks, AX and i had regular contact about my claim and updated me in regards to my own vehicle. At one point she said it could be deemed a 50/50 liability.   An engineer had collected my car, deemed in a total loss as the damage was more than 66% of its total value and written my car off . i had a call from a lady from AX and she said they have valued the car and i will be payed out £2200 . i asked when and she said ' we will send you a cheque out for £358 in the post, and the remaining balance will be payed out by Admirel but this may take a few weeks more' .    I didnt hear nothing for around 2 weeks so i contacted AX again for an update, she told me that admirel are refusing liability and there now in dispute. Every time i contacted them they said the same thing ' admirel are refusing liability'.   i asked them why admirel consider them not liable and she read from the notes ' MR S said he was driving along the road, the corsa ( my vehicle) was at high speed coming towards me , i beeped my horn and tried moving out of the way but i couldnt because of the ice and the snow and the corsa hit my van' ( complete lie!!)   The lady at AX said the problem is that the damage to both our vehicles is consistant with both our stories and due to there being no witnesses, no cctv or dash cam footage- no one can prove who is at fault.   I then questioned why i had been told i was being paid out £2200 and she said 'well we have to advice you the estimated value' of which i replied 'no, there was no 'advice' - i was told it was a done deal i was getting paid £2200 and she told me i had a cheque arriving in the post!!!.    The lady then told me she had requested a ' none prejudice payment' from admirel and waiting for a response.     Shortly after this phone call, AX contacted me again and asked if i had the funds to repair my own vehicle or buy another one, ( im.assuming admirel refused to pay the  none prejudice payment).   I told them No i do not as i have a baby due and even if i did have the funds, why on earth would i fork out to repair my own vehicle when i wasnt at fault ?! . she said ok im going to pass this to managment and see what we can do .     I contacted AX again and asked for an update and expressed how unhappy i was with their service as i felt like they hadnt fought my corner, bowed down to admirel and then had the cheek to ask me to repair my own vehicle . Again she said ' its still in dispute, admirel are not budging i have to pass this on to management.   She then asked me for 3 months bank statements to 'prove' i dont have the funds to repair my vehicle myself. I thought this was ridiculous and stated that even if i had the funds, why would i repair my own vehicle when im.not at fault!?   Obviously this has been on going since middle of january, pretty fed up. My brother come to this forum last night to seek advice And had a couple of replies that i may be liable to pay for the hire car costs.   I contacted AX first thing this morning regarding this. I made it clear that they can collect the vehicle to stop the daily charges as i do not want to be in thousands of pounds worth of debt when i am a lone parent with a new born baby. the lady told me ' we will try every avenue to recover the cost from Admirel for the hire car charges, if this means taking them to court, even if this is unsuccessful, considering you comply with your hire vehicle contract and you work with us with your claim ( which you have been doing) you will not be liable for this debt and if worst comes to worst and admirel will not pay, we will just wipe the debt off' .   i made her repeat several times that i will not be liable for this debt and she said i have told you my name, and these calls are recordered and i am telling you that this debt will not be on you to pay . She then said that if i was to give AX the hire car back now, then it would jepordise everything. And she said ' we gave you that hire vehicle because we beleive your not at fault so you can keep using it as we know you need transport'   I then questioned the need for bank statements again and she told me the reason they need bank statements is so if it goes to court - AX can justify why i needed the hire car for so long ( because i dont have the funds to repair my vehicle or buy another one) and also so they can prove they have tried every root possible.      After the phonecall it got me thinking about how she said ' aslong as you comply with your hire car contract your not liable for any charges for the hire car' .   Will they find any fault with the contract just to try and lumber me with the debt? As it seems pretty fishy how they would just ' wipe off' thousands of pounds if admirel refuse to pay.    And also, she said if i gave the hire car back it would jepodise the case . so when the lady rang me the other week asking if i had funds to repair or buy myself a new vehicle , if i had said yes, ill buy a car tomorrow and come collect the curtesy one. Then what? Wouldnt that ' jepodise' the case?      As you can imagaine, my heads spinning. Stressed and dont know what to do. I dont even care about a pay out , i just want to give the hire car back and be completely done with AX . but now im scared if i give the car back i will be lumbered with thousand of pounds worth of debt from the hire car charges.    What can/should i do?    Thank you Gemma
    • Hi Ade,   Stop speaking to them by phone and keep contact in writing only, which you've said you prefer.   Send TT a SAR by post immediately. The data you get back should enable you to see what they think you owe, and how it's made up.   Also write to BW Legal confirming you dispute the alleged debt owed to TT and have written to TT seeking data, so BWL must stop demands until TT have replied to the SAR you've sent them.
    • Please do although obviously I don’t know the facts from your side but at least I can tell you how much of a cut and paste job it is.
    • Please check back for a full reply tomorrow. However, it would help if you would introduce pergo spaces into a story full stop it's very long and especially for people with small screens it's very difficult to follow when it is so compacted.   I think this straight has become rather confused because of the third party account which we received at the outset. I think it will probably be helpful if you could repost your story but on a new thread and more openly spaced please.   Then we can start to have a closer look at it. However, as I've already suggested, I think there are two issues. The question of your liability in the accident and the problem of how you have been persuaded to take a rental car at such a high rate.    I would suggest that you hold off telephoneing anyone until we have had a closer look.before you do anything on the telephone. You have obviously had some very important conversations but you don't have any evidence of them. Although the other side may say that they have recorded them, you you may find it difficult to get hold of those recordings if in fact those recordings incriminate them in any way. for instance if they have promised you that you don't have to pay anything for the hire car, that would be an extremely useful conversation to have but you may find that it is difficult to get hold of.   please start a new thread it will be much easier to continue from there                                
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      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
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ex Company Wages Over payment Claimform


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Hello,

 

Thanks for any help.

I worked for a company until Apr 2015, and now have just received a claim form, from a "County court business centre" stating that I owe the company money. Apparently they overpaid me some salary, not that I can remember, so long ago.

 

This is the 1st corresondence regarding this.

How should I reply to this please?

They reckon it was £700, but with interest and now with costs it's near £1200.

 

If I own money, I owe money, not a problem, but somewhat baffled as to why after over 5yrs I suddenly get this claim form, and was not informed at the time.

 

Any advice/help with my defence would be very helpful.

 

Thanks.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to ex Company Wages Over payment Claimform oo much over 5yrs ago.....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to ex Company Wages Over payment Claimform

Name of the Claimant ? Centrica PLC

 

Date of issue – 02/12/2020

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The claimant's claim is in respect of an overpayment of salary/expenses full particulars of which have been previously supplied.

 

And the claimant claims 717.10p Account no:..., 325.19p interest thereon in accordance with section 69a of the County Court Acts 1984 at a rate of 8% p.a calculated from the date upon which payment became due to the date hereof as set out below. Further interest at the rate of 0.16p per day (8% p.a.) to judgement or payment.

 

What is the total value of the claim? £1192.29
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? No
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?

No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?

N/A

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

No
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

N/A
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?

N/A
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ?

Not known.
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

Original creditor
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

N/A
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

No, this is the 1st letter.
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?

No
 

Why did you cease payments?

N/A
 

What was the date of your last payment?

N/A
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

N/A

 

Any more information needed just ask, and thanks again for any help.

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when did you stop working for british gas?

is this a clawback of training course fees that became due because you left the company within xx years of getting the training?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

so no additional particulars of claim received as they indicate?

 

dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Also, please read up what we have to say about estoppel.

On the basis of what I understand so far, your defence would be an estoppel – but we need to know far more about the pattern of payment. Was this an overpayment which was trickled through over a period of months or years? Or was it a lump sum?

Also it's quite extraordinary that they haven't supplied you with any other correspondence. You need to be absolutely certain of this – it's essential because they haven't then they haven't satisfied the pre-action protocol.

I suggest that you send them on SAR immediately. Do it today.

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I understand that you may not even know how these overpayments were made. Although I have suggested that you send them on SAR – which you must do immediately., Also, phone them up and speak to the accounts department and tell them that you are extremely concerned because you have received a claim relating to overpayments and can they please let you have as soon as possible details of the overpayments, how they were made, and over what period they were made.

If the accounts department are cooperative then you may well be able to have this information within the next couple of days.

If they refuse to send it to you, then you must write them a letter immediately and refer to your request on the telephone dated XXX asking for details of the overpayment – and when you spoke to XXX person – and you are extremely disappointed that they have refused to provide you with this information.

It's very important to have a paper trail and if they have even refused to give you the information then this will help you enormously when you file your defence.

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Thanks for the many thanks – but are you going to take up the advice that we have given and phone the accounts department and also sent the SARs today?

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Hi dx

OK, sorry for the late reply, been on/off talking to my bank. Yes it looks like i did recieve 717.10p, we use to get quarterly bonuses, maybe I thought that's what it was at the time. Now what action is best?

 

Hi bankfodder,

Yes. And as above re dx; sorry for the late reply, been on/off talking to my bank. Yes it looks like i did recieve 717.10p, we use to get quarterly bonuses, maybe I thought that's what it was at the time. Now what action is best?

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Did you receive this money at one go or over a period of time?

As a percentage of your quarterly bonus, how much might this have been? Would it have been a stunningly large amount or would it have simply been a fraction of the bonus.

Did the bonus vary or was it a fixed sum every quarter?

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If you had realised that it had been an accidental overpayment, – hand on heart, what would you have done? Would you have raised the issue with your employer or would you have decided that as it had come into your account, you would simply use the money?

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Okay. I don't know if you looked up estoppel. You should do

Strictly speaking, the money was paid under a mistake and they are entitled to recover it from you. This means you would be obliged to pay it back.

However, if you have received a sum of money from somebody authorised to give it to you – particularly somebody in authority. If you have received that money in all good faith without understanding that the money was not due to you and that you honestly believed that the payment was intended. If you have spent that money on ordinary day-to-day things – in other words not treating it as a windfall, and if it would now cause you difficulty to repay it, then you could plead an estoppel.

Estoppel is basically saying that you received the money, you had no idea that it wasn't due to you and you accepted it in good faith. It wasn't an exceptional windfall and now that it has been spent in good faith, it would cause you difficulty to repay it.
On that basis, the claimant would be estopped (not allowed) to recover it from you. The claimant would be estopped from saying that the money should not have been paid. Effectively they have made a promise to you that the money was yours and you have relied on the promise in good faith.

Does this make sense?
 

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The final thing we need to know is whether they have followed the pre-action protocol and given you advance warning of the action. At least a letter of claim – and preferably some correspondence before that.

I suggest that in addition to the SAR which I hope you have sent off by now, that you phone them and speak to their office and tell them that you haven't had any earlier correspondence on this and would they please be kind enough to email it to you. If they are grown-ups they will do this

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Thanks for your help.

Yes I looked up estoppel, trying to get my head around it.

Yes i did spend it on day to day things as I went self-employed.

Yes it makes sense.

Thanks.

 

This is my 1st correspondence.

And I was looking at the form wrong, it looks like CST Law are dealing it. There's a phone no, shall I ring them instead? I have no problem with the 700 but 300 interest is a bit cheeky as they haven't sent anything before.

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Okay. Well see what you can find out about the any previous correspondence on this matter. It will be helpful if they were prepared to have a dialogue with you and to provide you with correspondence which they say that they have sent. If they do provide you with copies of it then it will be interesting to hear why you say you haven't received anything.

It will be helpful to say that they haven't complied with the pre-action protocol – but on the other hand, if they can come up  with copies of documents which they say they sent you including a letter of claim, then I'm afraid that they will tend to be believed and you won't.

If act if they can come up with copies of documents which they say they sent to you then I probably wouldn't want to refer to the pre-action protocol in your defence because if they are able to prove that they did send the documents, that puts you in a position where you are not believed on that. If you are believed on that, then it may make a judge a bit more wary about believing you on the estoppel. It's very rare that people run an estoppel and the courts are very cautious about upholding an estoppel defence.

This means that you should try and contact the Department as quickly as possible. Obviously, send the SAR straightaway – but it would be helpful to know whether there has been communication with you before you have to file the defence.

 

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Yes, telephone CST law and see if they will give you the advance correspondence. If they refuse then you should write to them and confirm that they have refused to provide you with evidence of the pre-action protocol.

You may be right about reimbursing them £700 – but this is not the time to do this. And I agree with you that the £300 interest is a bit much to stomach.

Also, I wonder what they think gives them the authority to claim £300 interest. What is that rate of interest?
Even if you should repay the £700, it is their error and they should not be permitted to profit from their error.

Thank CST law – don't make any admissions. Don't get into conflict. Just say that you have received any previous correspondence on this and you would like all that correspondence. Send British Gas on SAR and send on SAR also to CST law. Don't tell CST law that you are sending them on SAR because it will sound conflict oriented and you are better not putting them on their guard or on the defensive in any way.

In terms of the claim form that you have received, you should acknowledge it with an intention to defend. You can always retract this later on if you want.

Payment of the £700 – but without the interest could be a negotiating hand that you keep if and when it goes to mediation.

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cst?

can we confirm that centrica ARE the claimant named on the form

CST typically act for debt buyers..

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Many thanks again.

 

Yes the claimant is Centrica and CST are seemingly the correspondence address.

 

Just spoke to CST and they reckon they sent 5 letters, one may of not got here, but 5? Not sure I believe that.

 

She's going to send any docs via email. And has put the case on hold.

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Okay. Let's know when you see this letters.

It concerns me that you say one of them may have gotten through – because we now find that you are basically accepting that they did communicate with you on at least one occasion. So what's the story on that one?

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