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    • This is a draft of my WS   By no means final   Negatives:   doesnt follow smoothly    long winded   not much referene to cases except Beavis     I have tried to attach appendied but failed miserably, but I may not need them   The appendix are essentially:    IPC COP example of a contract between landowner and a PPC   IPC COP re entrance signages   IPC COD re sanctions on members who dont comply   JPEG of the erected signage showing that its back is to the entrance of the car park hence not in immediate view   JPEG of a receipt from 16.1.2021 ( yesterday) proving I went there and had a look at the signages     Not really sure if the appendices will make much difference en my defence   Please make any constructive comments etc..   I will have a look at the many links  FTM Dave kindly provided. I havent in detail because bene typing for the last 7 hours      Anyhow Thanks All             WS redacted-merged.pdf
    • Thanks DX 100   haha i totally  agree with your comment about the page 20    Yes I am awake and been all night w my WS   BUT can I point this very very very impt point please, which I am not sure if it has come to your attention   1. The payment machine and 6 hours and the free parking after 4.30 pm on a Saturday etc....all taken on board.   HOWEVER, and I cant stop myself laughing, this pay machine  he eludes to is based at The Market Shopping Centre Car park , after googling it is in CREWE.  It is not even relevant. They have put in a signage that is not even at the Merry Hill Centre which is in the West Midlands.    The Merry Hill Centre is the one I went to in Dudley, west midlands. All the signages , apart from the one you elude to have the intu Merry Hill logo     The one you refer to is in Crewe. I have never been to Crewe in my life lol so that signage is totally irrelevant    we can play this either way:   1. can take up your line of argument regarding the 6 hours etc. and pretned we are also using the pay machine    OR     2. totally dismiss it as being irrelevant, misleading , wasting the time of everyone by providing irrelevant info. Thats what I have argued in my WS so far. That signage does not belong to inTu Merry Hill            This is akin to someone being on annual leave from work between say 1.10 .2020 and 1.11.2020, and then finding out one of his/her collogues saying,  I saw you leaving work early last week , the 15th of October 2020.   hello !!!, I wasnt even in the country on the 15th of October 2020 !!   essentially thats what the claimant has done . The signage on page 20 doesnt even belong to the shopping centre I went to   I will log out and carry on with th WS     Thanks again       .   
    • Thank you FTMDave. As you can see from the time now I have had a nightmare getting questionnaire answered due to scanner problems, it is up there now though. I do not have proof of breakdown as the alternator was bought from a breakers yard near Chelmsford. I remember it well as they sold me the wrong one on the Saturday and I had to go back in my mechanic friends vehicle on Sunday as I had broken the original alternator getting it off.
    • 1 The date of infringement? 19/12/2019   2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No. I did, unfortunately use the MyParkingCharge.co.uk portal to deny liability as the keeper and deny any contract. I mistakenly thought this was where I made a SAR. (I now see looking at the site again that it is actually. https://excel.zatappeal.com ) This was replied to as if it were an appeal.   if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]   has there been a response? yes please AS A PDFFILE  ONLY ..post it up as well, suitably redacted. - follow the upload guide]   If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........DONT ! seek advice on your topic first.   have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] Yes. Issue date indicates that if "contravention" date is day 1 then NTK was issued on day 15 so arrived well before day 29. Document received was PCN/NTK in one. (see pdf)   what date is on it Issue date is 02/01/2020   Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? Yes   [scan up BOTHSIDES to ONE PDF of the PCN and your NTK - follow the upload guide]   3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] NO   4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances] Suggested appeals could be made via IAS   5 Who is the parking company? VCS   6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Broke down on service road of Southend Airport, Southend-On-Sea   please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   .............................   For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]  (must be received within 14 days from the Incident)   please answer the following questions.   1 Date of the infringement 19/12/2019     2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 02/01/2020.   I recall noting, when it arrived on Saturday 16th Jan 2020 that this was more than 14 days from "offence" date.   [scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide] please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   3 Date received 16/01/20   4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] No   5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes   6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] Not as such. See this entry for PCN above.   Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up As above.   7 Who is the parking company? VCS   8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Broke down on service road of Southend Airport, Southend-On-Sea   For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Initial appeal to be via www.myparkingcharge.co.uk then via IAS   There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check HERE   If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here I have subsequently received a Demand for Payment dated 28/02/2020.  outstanding balance £160 Final Demand posted on 16/03/2020         outstanding balance £160 LBC dated 27/03/2020.                                 outstanding balance £160 with estimate of court fees £25 2nd LBC from ELMS legal dated 30/10/2020 listing estimated fees of   Principal debt £160                                                                                                                        Estimated interest £12                                                                                                   Estimated court / hearing fees £50                                                                                                          Estimated solicitors' costs £50                                                                                                                              Estimated total £272   windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions... …….... in either case scan up bothsides of any letters/tickets in or appeals made out to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY please do not put JPG Picture files into your post   NTK plus .pdf
    • Have done the email address thing. The order specifically states just the applicant ?
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
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    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
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Interim Charge order to final charge order ?


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Hi,   I applied for a charge order (  N 379 )  against property owned by a person who owes me money from a CCJ but as not paid a penny so far. An interim charge order was been granted and the person objected and at a hearing  asked for the Charge order to be " set aside ".

His case was dismissed.

I need to know what happens next. Does the final charge order automatically take place, or do I have to perform further work myself ?

I have contacted the County court where the hearing took place and also the land registry, but one has not replied and the other replied but did not answer the query.

Does anyone know the answer or are able to let me know where i can find the answer.        

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is he sole home owner?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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dx100uk,   no he is joint owner.  The interim charge order is already shown on the title register of the property and the other joint owner ( wife ) has been served with the notification papers as per the procedure. 

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Applying for a charging order involves two stages: the interim charging order and the final charging order.

Interim charging orders

If your creditor decides to apply for a charging order:

  1. Your creditor sends a form to the court along with proof from the Land Registry that you own, or jointly own, your house
  2. If the court agrees that you own a share of the property and a charging order is allowed under the rules above, you'll be sent an interim charging order on form N86 and a copy of the creditor's form N379. These show the reasons they've applied. This is also sent to your spouse or civil partner, any other joint owners of the property and your mortgage company or other secured lenders
  3. A restriction will be placed on the Land Registry, stopping you from selling your house until the final charging order hearing. You will get a form B136 from the Land Registry telling you this has happened. You don't need to reply to this form

The interim charging order is issued without a hearing. If you do nothing, a final charging order will be issued 28 days later.

If you want to object to the final charging order, you must write to the court and creditor within 21 days of receiving the interim charging order. The court may then arrange a hearing to make a decision.

Reasons to object might include:

  • The property doesn’t belong to you, and you are not entitled to a share of any equity in it
  • The CCJ happened before October 2012 and you’ve not missed any instalments set by the court
  • The creditor has not followed the application process correctly, for example they’ve not informed your spouse or civil partner

You can also write to ask the court to set conditions on the charging order. One condition that we recommend asking for is an affordable instalment order, if one is not already in place. This is where the court sets a regular payment. If the court agrees to this and you keep up with the payments, the creditor will find it much harder to take further enforcement action through the court.

If no instalment order is set there’s a risk the creditor could take further action, for example by instructing enforcement agents (bailiffs) to visit. If your CCJ was date 1 October 2012 or later, an instalment order which is up to date also prevents the creditor applying to force the sale of your home.

Final charging orders

For the second stage of the charging order process, if you’ve not made any written objections, a court officer or sometimes a District Judge will decide whether to make a final charging order.

If you wrote to the court and creditor with objections, or you requested other conditions are applied, the court may arrange a hearing to decide whether to make a final charging order.

The hearing will be at your local County Court hearing centre. The hearing will usually be in private chambers with a District Judge and normally a representative from the creditor. The judge will listen to both sides and decide whether to make the final order or not, and what conditions if any are to be applied.

Once a final charging order is made, you’ll get a letter from the court confirming this on form N87.

 
Regards
 
Andy

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so wont this thus be a totally useless restriction k andy?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you for your replies. You have answered my query. I was not aware of form N87. I have looked at the form on line and I have not received it from the county court yet ( hearing date 5/11/20). So i can now chase them and refer to the form.

 

Thank you andyorch and dx100uk.    

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if its a restriction k you'll get that's useless to you 

you'll never get your money even when they sell

 

look at otherways to enforce your judgement.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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4 hours ago, Andyorch said:

Applying for a charging order involves two stages: the interim charging order and the final charging order.

 

It would be good if you could at least credit Stepchange for your copied and pasted information:

 

https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/debt-collection/charging-orders-and-my-home.aspx

 

You can still apply for the final charging order to secure the debt against the property.

You can then apply for an order for sale once that's granted but the joint owners' situations would need to be taken in to account by the court.

 

Whether or not it is granted depends on the status of the home and what the intention of the joint owners was when the property was jointly purchased. If it is a family home with children, the order for sale is unlikely to be granted.

 

If there is insufficient equity in the property to cover the debt and the debtor cannot make any repayments, it's also unlikely to be granted. Disabilities of the occupants can also be taken in to account. Depending on who the occupants are and why they are joint occupants, it may be difficult to force a sale.

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Thank you for your helpful replies.  I am waiting for Form N87 from the County Court ( i will be chasing this up ).

Next question.  When i receive form N87 what do i do with it ?  Is a copy sent direct to the land registry or do i have to send it and if so is there an accompanied form to go with it ?  

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hope you are not believing you will actually get anything out of this via a restriction k?
 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

dx

    I note your comment and i have checked and I it is a non- standard registration and not a standard form K, charge order.   

    I accept that this does not guarantee immediate payment. My case is that the debtor owes a five figure sum from a CCJ in my favour for over twelve months and he has not paid a penny.  

    I am also proceeding with court action to enforce payment, and the charge order strengthens my case to ensure the debt is paid at some point. 

    As i stated in a previous post, when i receive the N87 I would like to know what i need to do with it. Do i need to inform the land registry and if so are there any forms that need to accompany it.

    Cheers

              

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