Old and new CTAX LO's and dodgy Fees & ROG - Rossendales URGENT

[Splitty13 1]

Hi,

we had a council tax debt that was settled in full with our council back in July.

However the bailiffs are continuing to pursue us for their fees. 

 

We had an initial incident where the first bailiff had no ID and stated he was from the council and needed to inspect our house (council house).

My partner let him in and he started listing items at which point my partner questioned who he was and he then told her he was from Rossendales reference outstanding council tax. After a discussion she set up a payment plan and he left.

 

Things went on and we missed 1 payment, we rang them and explained and they said it was fine if we can pay double the following month to catch up. We agreed but before that date arrived we had a doorstep visit.

 

It all became silly and stressful, i spoke with Rossendales who just were not interested and so rude its hard to not get agitated and stressed

 

I took out a loan and paid the council directly. I paid the entire debt with them. This did not include any bailiff fees.

 

I logged an official complaint with Rossendales over the conduct. It transpires that the bodycam from the initial visit was miraculously unavailable and also no complaint was logged by Rossendales, however there are notes on our account regarding the complaint!! With the virus etc I guess this has delayed their action

 

today I received a phone call saying I have to pay the council tax debt now or they will remove goods tomorrow. I tried to converse and explain what had happened and was shut down, the agent said he wasn't interested, either pay now or I'll visit tomorrow to remove goods, every time I tried to speak, he spoke over me so we got nowhere. 

 

I'm at at a complete loss as to what to do, I cannot raise a complaint with them without evidence and they're not interested in anything other than causing stress and trying to obtain money or goods.

 

Please can anyone offer advice, do I just need to pay their fees, even with their conduct?

 

Can they still charge fees for a settled debt? What if they do visit?

 

What can they do and what can I do? 

[dx100uk 9,435]

who told you to pay the council directly and not pay their bailiffs fees?

because sadly that is very bad advice since the changes in about 2014 i think it was.

 

you would of had a NOE fee of £75 (which ofcourse you did get?) , and a visit fees of "235, that being the total they can charge = £310.

 

 

 

 

[Splitty13 1]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I choose to pay the council as I didn't want to deal with the bailiffs after the issues. It was more making a point.

We received a possession order on the first visit which was stated as a council inspection and the man was from the council, it was when he started listing items that it became apparent what he was

 

This is issue, they entered under false pretences

 

is there anything we can do or do we just have to pay to avoid even more fees?

[dx100uk 9,435]

57 minutes ago, Splitty13 said:

We received a possession order on the first visit

 

what a possession order 

or do you mean removal of goods order?

 

what was the FIRST written comms from the bailiff or company please

you should have received a notice of enforcement stating a £75 fee and 7 days to sort before a visit?

 

was this debt for you current home ctax debt?

 

 

 

[Splitty13 1]

The first visit listed items, so I guess a removal of goods notice. I have tried paying online and by phone but they are saying the reference number is invalid

[dx100uk 9,435]

hey don't rush to pay, it can't increase anymore, but we need to be sure they followed correct process

 

you have failed to answer some important questions i asked...

 

 

[Splitty13 1]

They are due later this morning to remove goods at which point the fees increase. I have tried to pay online but it states that the reference number is incorrect

 

It was for council tax from our previous and current address. Its a very long story but the council lost over £1800 of our money and it took months for them to find and try to sort out. It caused loads of issues and caused a nightmare 

 

I do not recall an NOE and cannot see one in my file. We have letters from the council and the court fees added but the first bailiff visit was the ROG order, there was no prior communication from the bailiffs

[dx100uk 9,435]

A visit with only an intention to take control (and/or to remove those goods) cannot therefore attract the fee. 

 

you are opening up a can of worms far too late for this forum

with far too much water under the bridge to deal with properly and correctly at such short notice.

 

were you left or have been given a list of goods taken into control?

 

but i say again i dont believe any of this can happen without a valid notice of enforcement having been already issue  stating the current address.

 

so you have NO other bailiff letters

[Splitty13 1]

A list was made and taken away by the bailiff. 

We logged an official complaint on the 12th March 2020 and have heard nothing until 8th September 2020 when a ROG notice was received, we then called and spoke with a manager but got cut off and couldn't trace who he was when we called back.

Then nothing again until yesterday

[dx100uk 9,435]

so no list of goods sent with the rog?

dx

[dx100uk 9,435]

did the ROG have a list of your good attached?

 

[Splitty13 1]

No, nothing attached to it

[dx100uk 9,435]

then you are under no legal obligation to allow entry

there is no legal right of forced entry on CTAX debts either.

 

i am hoping help will appear today.

 

i suspect the rossers will claim the NOE was sent to your old address or something (then its useless today)

but i can't see how old/new property CTAX liability orders can all be rolled into one

a NOE sent to an old address

then the bailiffs rock up at the new address

do a list of goods

without a NOE being served on the new Address.

 

but the story appears to cover a long periods of time and might be incomplete.

[Peterbard 3,082]

Hi 

Important, when you made the arrangement to pay, did you sign a walking possession order?

 

If you did not they CANNOT come back and take goods off you, nor do they have a right to force entry, it is that document (agreement) that gives them the right.

 

The bailiff misrepresenting himself in that way, is also a very serious offence.

 

Was there any witnesses?

Edited December 4, 2020 by Peterbard
spel

[Splitty13 1]

My Mrs cannot remember if she signed it, I have never signed anything so I assume she did.

 

The misrepresentation to gain entry is my concern and complaint.

I filed a formal complaint on the 12th March 2020 regarding this. 

 

Last night I wrote all the details into an email and sent it to Rossendales, our council,  LGO, CIVEA, HCEOA and a local Councillor. 

 

Rossendales have today officially recorded the complaint although their own system shows notes from March onwards which mentioned said complaint. 

 

I have paid the full amount due to avoid any increase in costs and I am waiting for responses and advice now on how to pursue the complaint.

 

The original agent is apparently well known for his dubious behaviour and is known for similar and may no longer work for them

[Peterbard 3,082]

Yes it must have been signed. Do we have a name for the EA?   How much in fees did they end up charging, if you dont mind me asking.

 

 

 

Oh, and Civea dont handle customer complaints anymore I believe.

[Andyorch 10,463]

https://www.civea.co.uk/complaints

[Peterbard 3,082]

Nice link Andy?

 

Complaints | CIVEA

[Splitty13 1]

Only surnames but yes we do 

It was £190 in charges