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    • Right.    The law says that when you are asked to provide the driver's details you have to use "reasonable diligence" to find out who it was. The diligence you are required to use only begins once the request is made (this is covered in the case of Atkinson vs DPP). So it cannot be held against you if you did not obtain his details before you allowed him to drive the car.    I take it you provided the police simply with his name and address? If you are to defend this successfully you must convince the court that you did everything that was reasonably practical to identify him. But it seems you already know who it was. It just happens he seems to have disappeared.    You can understand the concern of the police. If it was so simple to just name somebody as the driver and you know that person, even if he was genuine, could not be traced, then everybody would do something similar. You have a simple choice to make: you can defend the charge against you on the basis that you have provided the details required, or you can plead guilty for failing to do so. It should not be in dispute that you provided the details; the matter for the court will be whether they believe they were genuine or not. If they do they should acquit you. It is not your responsibility to trace people who are accused of offences but who have since disappeared.   Personally I don't rate your chances of success too highly. You only know him as a "friend of a friend". At the very least you should have checked that he was insured to drive your car. That is something a car owner definitely must do before allowing another person to drive their car. If you had done that (say, by seeing a certificate of insurance to prove the cover) you may have been able to take other details which would help you convince a court hat the person was genuine. As an aside, if the driver was traced and it turned out he was not insured you could be prosecuted for permitting  him to drive your car uninsured (an offence which carries six points).   The outcome if you are found guilty at trial will be a fine of a week and a half's net income, a victim surcharge of 10% of the fine, six penalty points but, most significantly, prosecution costs which will be in the region of £600. If you plead guilty to the offence the fine will be reduced to just one week's net income and the costs will be £85, but six points will still be imposed.   The speeding matter is a dead duck. You were not driving, you have told them you were not, they obviously have no proof that you were so you cannot be convicted of that offence.
    • @defender90 welcome to the forum and it's very interesting news that new say that you have evidence. Any chance that you might start your own thread and tell your story there. We may be able to offer you help – but more importantly, the more threads there are with the name and the business name et cetera in the title, the more likely that Google is going to pick it up and that may attract others. Would like very much to know what the evidence is that you have 
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    • Hello Taxhelper   Thanks again . Your so kind and Im very grateful.   I am about to submit the form in the next few hours. Before clicking the submit button there is a calculation page that has been generated by the site based on the info I provided ( income from PAYe and income from self employment etc...with all expenses deducted). their calcs are correct.   The figures are correct and I do owe them a sum as well as 1st payment on account for 20-21. I just am not sure I can pay the lot by 31/1/2021 because I did not anticipate that the hospital may not be able to pay me on time ( my jan pay). Thats because I did submit my 'timesheet' to the HR on time but they delayed processing it in time for it to be paid by the end of this month. They have said they have asked for an exceptional CHAPS payment to be made but I remain uncertain whether they will pay it into my account by then or not. thats why i wasnt sure if its best to call HMRC and give them the heads up or not.  
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NCP/BW ANPR PCN Claimform Bought ticket but threw it away


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My wife has received PCN from this same car park.

She bought a ticket at the time but had thrown it away by the time she received the PCN as there was a fortnights holiday in the interim.  

 

Please can anyone advise the best way to use this forum for advice on this one?

We have requested a PDT machine record of payments made that day, but this has not been forthcoming.

She now has a claim form from County Court Business Centre and I would be most grateful of any advice in the best way to present her defence. 

Thank you in advance.

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  • brassnecked changed the title to NCP/BW ANPR PCN Claimform Bought ticket but threw it away

Have moved your comment to a new thread specifically for your query, its better to have your own thread  now if you can fill in the questions on the Sticky below it will help the team to offer advice for your particular case.

 

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Just because the receipt has been thrown away doesn't invalidate the payment. Besides there are several other hurdles that the crooks who run hte car park have to overcome before they can successfully win in Court-even if your wife hadn't paid at all.

As a start please complete the questions on post 2 and then we can begin pinting out where they have gone wrong already.

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Yes the sticky will then give us the what why's and wherefore of their likely groundless claim, but don't delay as you must acknowledge the Claimform within a strict timescale or they win by default.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Hello all,

This is my first thread, so I hope I am following protocol.

My wife parked in an NCP car park late last year. It is controlled by ANPR and she bought a ticket and displayed it on the dashboard. We were away for Christmas and on our return discovered a PCN from NCP waiting for us. I can supply the dates but I do not know how much information of the case I should disclose here at this stage.

 

She wrote back to NCP saying she had bought a ticket and saying 'We have no record of any payment being made against your vehicle registration number'. She was driving our daughter's car so it is entirely possible that she entered her own registration number by mistake.

 

Having read a number of threads here and elsewhere, I entered an SAR on the NCP website asking for photos, all correspondence, a PDT machine record from that day of payment made, and all data that they intend to rely on. This has been received with the conspicuous absence of the PDT machine record.

 

I have read that entering an incorrect number is not a breach of contract, and I think this is our strongest defence, but I would really appreciate any comments that will help in submitting my wife's defence which is due next week.

 

Thanks in advance, 

Rovarp

 

 

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Hi.

 

You say you need to submit a defence, but have you had a court claim for this?

 

In the first instance, please could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky so we can advise you?

 

 

We don't necessarily go about things the way that other forums do, so we wouldn't have advised sending an SAR or for your wife to admit that she was driving, but that isn't terminal. We'll take it a step at a time.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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we'd already made you a thread

so i've merged them.

 

can you please re read from post 1 now

and fill out our court sticky in post 2 

 

thank you

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

06/12/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

19/12/2019
 

Uploaded as NTK.pdf

 

3 Date received

It could have arrived any day after 19th December as we arrived home on 31/12/2019
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes - See NTK 
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Yes - see Redacted Appeal Letter
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

We did not receive a response, however there was a response within the SAR pack which was only requested after receiving the County Court Claim Form - Attached (Appeal Response 2 page)
 

7 Who is the parking company?

NCP

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Cheltenham Portland Street East
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

Redacted appeal letter.pdf NTK.pdf Appeal response 2 page.pdf

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On 30/11/2020 at 11:34, brassnecked said:

Have moved your comment to a new thread specifically for your query, its better to have your own thread  now if you can fill in the questions on the Sticky below it will help the team to offer advice for your particular case.

 

 

 

i'm not sure why the wrong sticky got posted

 

if you have a claimform 

we need the above

 

thanks.

then we will get you moving

this one should be easy.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Name of the Claimant National Car Parks Limited, Saffron House, 14B St Cross Street, London, EC1 8XA

 

Claimants Solicitors: BW Legal. Enterprise House, 1 Apex View, Leeds, LS11 9BH

 

Date of issue – 10 Nov 2020

 

Date for AOS - I posted AoS on 19th November 1st class.

 

Date to submit Defence - Please advise (apologies for not contacting you guys earlier) 11-08-2020 - dx

 

What is the claim for  

1.The claim is for the sum of £170.00 being the contractual charge due from the Defendant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a contractual breach which occurred on 06/12/2019 in the private car park/land at Cheltenham Portland Street East Cheltenham GL50 4DW in relation to a xxxxx xxxxxx registration mark xxxx xxx.

 

2.The PCN was issued as the Defendant failed to comply with the terms and conditions, as displayed. 

 

3.Despite demands, the charge remains unpaid.

 

4.The claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of £0.04) from 06/12/2019 to 08/11/2020 being an amount of £13.00.

 

5.The Claim also includes £60.00 recovery costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions and in the ATA AoS Code of Practice.

 

What is the value of the claim? £173.00+

 

Amount Claimed  £173.00

court fees £25.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £248.00

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thanks.

 

i would still register with MCOL Website today

and regardless to the SAR get a CPR running today too.

 

follow

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. --- check AOS is registered if not do it!
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the 
claimform [1 in the count]

 

..............

 

defence is due friday 11th dec by 4pm

 

twill be one of our many 3-5 line defences here in numerous PCN claimform threads

shame you appealed...next time DON'T!!

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I am being a bit thick here perhaps but if your wife parked her daughter's car there then the PCN should have gone to your daughter if no payment was made. And how did the PCN get to your wife if her car wasn't there? 

 

Oh I have forgotten that your daughter could have her car registered at your home address but still wouldn't explain the PCN going to your wife.

 

And have you asked NCP to check if your daughter's reg no. was paid for?

 

Also did NCP's takings for that day tally with the number of cars that parked there that day.

You can tell them that they will be put to strict proof of this since it is a vital piece of evidence  in their claim.

 

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Both cars are registered to me, so original PCN was in my name.

My wife in her appeal said she was driving and she has received all subsequent correspondence.

(We now know this was a huge error).

 

I am sure if we had the list of registrations for the day, we could identify the purchase but that is not forthcoming.

I did request the PDT machine record of payments made that day in the SAR.

 It's just if this is the main thrust of the defence and how to present it if it is.

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its not for you to prove their ANPR system is pants , leave that for later.

 

reg mistakes are being removed as an allowable reasons these fleecers can issue speculative invoices soon, so it should be easy.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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They will be trying to get as many wrong reg no claims in before it is changed and becomes law that its not a reason to claim. the court process is used as a frightener to push for a payment often not legally due.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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AFAIK there have been zero wins for any PPC on a wrong reg issue.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That would be a defended claim as being de minimis it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.  Only way they would geta judgment is a default, as undefended, or a back door default to old address.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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They cannot show you their PDT record for that day since that would breach the GDPR of every other motorist.

You could explain that your wife may have inputted one of several reg. nos. and see if they will look at that.

 

Of course she may have got one of the letters wrong as well as the actual car that she was driving which would encourage the crooks to keep pursing. They will still need strict proof that she didn't pay. Like a picture of the windscreen without a ticket showing.

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its for them to prove their claim

its not for you to prove their ANPR system is pants, leave that for later.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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