NCP/BW ANPR PCN Claimform Bought ticket but threw it away

[Rovarp 1]

My wife has received PCN from this same car park.

She bought a ticket at the time but had thrown it away by the time she received the PCN as there was a fortnights holiday in the interim.  

 

Please can anyone advise the best way to use this forum for advice on this one?

We have requested a PDT machine record of payments made that day, but this has not been forthcoming.

She now has a claim form from County Court Business Centre and I would be most grateful of any advice in the best way to present her defence. 

Thank you in advance.

[brassnecked 1,843]

Have moved your comment to a new thread specifically for your query, its better to have your own thread  now if you can fill in the questions on the Sticky below it will help the team to offer advice for your particular case.

 

 

[lookinforinfo 2,258]

Just because the receipt has been thrown away doesn't invalidate the payment. Besides there are several other hurdles that the crooks who run hte car park have to overcome before they can successfully win in Court-even if your wife hadn't paid at all.

As a start please complete the questions on post 2 and then we can begin pinting out where they have gone wrong already.

[brassnecked 1,843]

Yes the sticky will then give us the what why's and wherefore of their likely groundless claim, but don't delay as you must acknowledge the Claimform within a strict timescale or they win by default.

[FTMDave 632]

How did she pay?

[Rovarp 1]

Hello all,

This is my first thread, so I hope I am following protocol.

My wife parked in an NCP car park late last year. It is controlled by ANPR and she bought a ticket and displayed it on the dashboard. We were away for Christmas and on our return discovered a PCN from NCP waiting for us. I can supply the dates but I do not know how much information of the case I should disclose here at this stage.

 

She wrote back to NCP saying she had bought a ticket and saying 'We have no record of any payment being made against your vehicle registration number'. She was driving our daughter's car so it is entirely possible that she entered her own registration number by mistake.

 

Having read a number of threads here and elsewhere, I entered an SAR on the NCP website asking for photos, all correspondence, a PDT machine record from that day of payment made, and all data that they intend to rely on. This has been received with the conspicuous absence of the PDT machine record.

 

I have read that entering an incorrect number is not a breach of contract, and I think this is our strongest defence, but I would really appreciate any comments that will help in submitting my wife's defence which is due next week.

 

Thanks in advance, 

Rovarp

 

 

[honeybee13 4,493]

Hi.

 

You say you need to submit a defence, but have you had a court claim for this?

 

In the first instance, please could you let us have the information requested in the forum sticky so we can advise you?

 

 

We don't necessarily go about things the way that other forums do, so we wouldn't have advised sending an SAR or for your wife to admit that she was driving, but that isn't terminal. We'll take it a step at a time.

 

HB

[dx100uk 9,543]

we'd already made you a thread

so i've merged them.

 

can you please re read from post 1 now

and fill out our court sticky in post 2 

 

thank you

[Rovarp 1]

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

06/12/2019
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

19/12/2019
 

Uploaded as NTK.pdf

 

3 Date received

It could have arrived any day after 19th December as we arrived home on 31/12/2019
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes - See NTK 
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Yes - see Redacted Appeal Letter
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

We did not receive a response, however there was a response within the SAR pack which was only requested after receiving the County Court Claim Form - Attached (Appeal Response 2 page)
 

7 Who is the parking company?

NCP

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Cheltenham Portland Street East
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

BPA
 

Redacted appeal letter.pdf NTK.pdf Appeal response 2 page.pdf

[FTMDave 632]

How did your wife pay?

[Rovarp 1]

She paid cash unfortunately

[dx100uk 9,543]

On 30/11/2020 at 11:34, brassnecked said:

Have moved your comment to a new thread specifically for your query, its better to have your own thread  now if you can fill in the questions on the Sticky below it will help the team to offer advice for your particular case.

 

 

 

i'm not sure why the wrong sticky got posted

 

if you have a claimform 

we need the above

 

thanks.

then we will get you moving

this one should be easy.

 

dx

 

[Rovarp 1]

  

Name of the Claimant : National Car Parks Limited, Saffron House, 14B St Cross Street, London, EC1 8XA

 

Claimants Solicitors: BW Legal. Enterprise House, 1 Apex View, Leeds, LS11 9BH

 

Date of issue – 10 Nov 2020

 

Date for AOS - I posted AoS on 19th November 1st class.

 

Date to submit Defence - Please advise (apologies for not contacting you guys earlier) 11-08-2020 - dx

 

What is the claim for – 

1.The claim is for the sum of £170.00 being the contractual charge due from the Defendant in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) for a contractual breach which occurred on 06/12/2019 in the private car park/land at Cheltenham Portland Street East Cheltenham GL50 4DW in relation to a xxxxx xxxxxx registration mark xxxx xxx.

 

2.The PCN was issued as the Defendant failed to comply with the terms and conditions, as displayed. 

 

3.Despite demands, the charge remains unpaid.

 

4.The claim also includes Statutory Interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum (a daily rate of £0.04) from 06/12/2019 to 08/11/2020 being an amount of £13.00.

 

5.The Claim also includes £60.00 recovery costs as set out in the Terms and Conditions and in the ATA AoS Code of Practice.

 

What is the value of the claim? £173.00+

 

Amount Claimed  £173.00

court fees £25.00

legal rep fees £50.00

Total Amount £248.00

[dx100uk 9,543]

thanks.

 

i would still register with MCOL Website today

and regardless to the SAR get a CPR running today too.

 

follow

 

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
.
 register as an individual
 note the long gateway number given
 then log in
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box. --- check AOS is registered if not do it!
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked.
 click thru to the end
 confirm and exit MCOL.

 get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]

no need to sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

 

..............

 

defence is due friday 11th dec by 4pm

 

twill be one of our many 3-5 line defences here in numerous PCN claimform threads

shame you appealed...next time DON'T!!

 

 

[Rovarp 1]

Thanks DX and all,

I will do that now.

[lookinforinfo 2,258]

I am being a bit thick here perhaps but if your wife parked her daughter's car there then the PCN should have gone to your daughter if no payment was made. And how did the PCN get to your wife if her car wasn't there? 

 

Oh I have forgotten that your daughter could have her car registered at your home address but still wouldn't explain the PCN going to your wife.

 

And have you asked NCP to check if your daughter's reg no. was paid for?

 

Also did NCP's takings for that day tally with the number of cars that parked there that day.

You can tell them that they will be put to strict proof of this since it is a vital piece of evidence  in their claim.

 

[Rovarp 1]

Both cars are registered to me, so original PCN was in my name.

My wife in her appeal said she was driving and she has received all subsequent correspondence.

(We now know this was a huge error).

 

I am sure if we had the list of registrations for the day, we could identify the purchase but that is not forthcoming.

I did request the PDT machine record of payments made that day in the SAR.

 It's just if this is the main thrust of the defence and how to present it if it is.

[dx100uk 9,543]

its not for you to prove their ANPR system is pants , leave that for later.

 

reg mistakes are being removed as an allowable reasons these fleecers can issue speculative invoices soon, so it should be easy.

[Rovarp 1]

Logged into MCOL and AoS was received on 23/11/20. I will send CPR this afternoon.

Thanks

[brassnecked 1,843]

They will be trying to get as many wrong reg no claims in before it is changed and becomes law that its not a reason to claim. the court process is used as a frightener to push for a payment often not legally due.

[dx100uk 9,543]

AFAIK there have been zero wins for any PPC on a wrong reg issue.

[brassnecked 1,843]

That would be a defended claim as being de minimis it wouldn't stand up to scrutiny.  Only way they would geta judgment is a default, as undefended, or a back door default to old address.

[lookinforinfo 2,258]

They cannot show you their PDT record for that day since that would breach the GDPR of every other motorist.

You could explain that your wife may have inputted one of several reg. nos. and see if they will look at that.

 

Of course she may have got one of the letters wrong as well as the actual car that she was driving which would encourage the crooks to keep pursing. They will still need strict proof that she didn't pay. Like a picture of the windscreen without a ticket showing.

[Rovarp 1]

So far, we haven't mentioned that it is possible my wife entered the wrong reg number or given them that number to check. Should I now be doing this then?

[dx100uk 9,543]

its for them to prove their claim

its not for you to prove their ANPR system is pants, leave that for later.