Fast Motor Finance Ltd /Advantage - problems with car and now wish to VT

[BankFodder]

If you still think that it is strange that the finance company withholds information from you then you still haven't entered the right mindset. I think you need to sort yourself out on this

[just_jue]

True but I am self employed and wouldn't ever treat a customer like this

[BankFodder]

That's because you know that any failure in your customer facing role will have a direct impact on you. You shouldn't judge some garage – and also the finance company by your much higher standards. They are protected by rules, regulations, policies, the ombudsman. The dealer is protected by the hire purchase agreement which puts the responsibility into the court of the finance company so that the dealer feels that they are completely shielded from any action.

You don't have any of those protections so you have to shape up. They don't

 

Not only that, if they lose a customer or there's an FOS decision against them, it doesn't matter a jot. It has seen no impact on their bottom line and it simply an inconvenience.

If you lose a customer then it is probably very significant

[just_jue]

Going to send this email regarding the report.

 

I'm not to going to mention any other details at the moment.

 

'I have read you report and I am amazed that you think a car which was purchased in September and has been driven for a total of 1500 miles since collection would need a new gearbox is put down as wear and tear.

 

It is very strange why you have not included this report.

 

I want a full unedited copy of the mechanics report along with their company name, what qualifications they hold regarding these reports, what  official trade associations they belong to.

 

If you are unable or unwilling to supply this information I require you to put you reasons in writing at the earliest opportunity.'

 

 

[BankFodder]

Why don't you skip all the amazement stuff and the very strange stuff.

How about:

 

Quote

Despite the fact that I was promised the full report to accompany your final response, this has not been included.

Please will you supply the full report upon which you are proposing to rely when denying my claim or let me know why you will not.

 

[just_jue]

Perfect thank you

[phil40000]

This will be the Ford 'Powershift' gearbox which is widely considered to be the worst gearbox on the market. Its not a full automatic in the sense that it is not a fixed speed torque converter design. It uses a fiercely complicated mechatronics unit coupled with a dual clutch pack that is either wet or dry. 

 

I was recently in the automatic transmission specialist that we use and the owner pointed to a Volvo (so still a FoMoCo product with the same gearbox) and simply said 'never buy one of those'. They can fail in each vehicle multiple times from as little as 2,000mls from new. 

 

A fluid change is often attempted as a last ditch effort to avoid major heart (and wallet) surgery. It almost always makes no difference as its a mechanical/electrical fault. Its very similar to VAG's 'DSG' gearbox only even more unreliable. Even when working correctly they are a jerky drive. I would strongly advise not to go down the route of having the 'box serviced, it will not make any difference based on all evidence and experience available. 

 

I'm amazed that more people don't do more research when buying a car, specially if it has a complicated engine or gearbox, they are far from equal regarding reliability . In this case though, and as has been said already I think, its the finance companies car and their problem.

 

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/fords-crazy-powershift-transmission-mess-what-were-they-thinking/

 

I know someone who runs one of these 'poor credit' outfits and this car would be dumped outside his premises with the V5 stuffed in the glovebox and the Key posted through the letterbox. He considers this a 'positive outcome'. They all know their responsibilities, they just avoid them as long as possible. On every phone in the place I know is a salutation reminder saying 'The customer cannot return the vehicle' and 'The customer cannot cancel the agreement once they find out just how much interest they are paying'.  

Edited November 30, 2020 by phil40000
adding article regarding this transmission.

[dx100uk]

5 minutes ago, phil40000 said:

On every phone in the place I know is a salutation reminder saying 'The customer cannot return the vehicle' and 'The customer cannot cancel the agreement once they find out just how much interest they are paying'.  

not sure what you are intimating by this??

 

[phil40000]

I was stating that, in my experience, 'poor credit no problem' finance companies are very often total scumbags. The interest in this 'deal' was over £5,000 on a car purchased for just over £7k. They take advantage of folk in poor circumstances by coming over as the only people who can help them. It is common for interest rates to be over 55% APR. 

[dx100uk]

thats better and ofcourse those2 statement i quoted are totally twaddle! they can!

[phil40000]

Of course they can! What do you think about complaining to the Ombudsman? Companies don't like it as it costs them circa £500 per complaint.

 

'Fast Motor Finance' is most likely a finance broker. These brokers very rarely have their own 'book' i.e. their own money. They act as a middleman and make their money that way. I would say that its important to find out exactly who the finance company is that actually provided the money.

 

When an invoice is requested by the broker to the dealer, the actual finance company goes on one side, with the 'to be delivered to' i.e. the private customer on the other side.

 

The broker is not mentioned on the invoice usually. They are just the 3rd party passing the info between the customer and the company actually putting up the advance. Like I say, it is super rare for these smaller companies to have enough capital to use their own funds. 

 

In both lockdown periods, many dealerships have offered 'click and collect' or had the cars delivered, after the car has been paid for in full most of the time.

 

Would you send someone you have never met £7,000 for a car you have never seen, driven or inspected out of your own personal money? The answer should be no.

 

Most cars sold in lockdown have been financed. This is because the customer knows that if the car is not as described or has a fault they will be calling the finance company to sort it out, as it is the finance company's car after all.

 

Car retailers and finance company's all know their obligations and their responsibilities under the CGA of 2015. The tactics that the OP has described are common where a 'high rate' lender is involved. They take advantage of people in often vulnerable circumstances who, I have to say, have a history of making poor financial decisions and often have a limited reading and writing ability.

 

Anyway enough about that, I just thought a view 'from the other side of the fence' might help.

 

In this situation the squeaky wheel gets the grease. Polite and meek customers will be ignored as they have the habit of giving up and going away to repair the cars themselves. With your help this should be resolved. The responsibility lies with the finance company, end of. 

[just_jue]

I have sent DSAR and email regarding the report every day to advantage main contact details and CC the women meant to be looking after our complaint, and not even had a reply, but did we expect anything else.

Edited December 3, 2020 by just_jue

[BankFodder]

Please can you reread what you've just sent because it doesn't make a huge amount of sense

[just_jue]

So still nothing regarding a copy of the report not even a confirmation email.

It was sent to the women that dealt with our complaint as well as CC all the other contact details we have.

This has been done daily and we will carry on until we get proof of the report

[BankFodder]

When did you send the SAR?

[just_jue]

The sar was sent Friday last week and the email regarding the report was sent over the weekend. 

[just_jue]

Here is the letter I would be sending to the garage;

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

Ref: xxxxxx

On xxxxxx I purchased, and took delivery of, the above vehicle Ford Kuga from you. On xxxxx I discovered that it was not of satisfactory quality: the transmission will need to be replaced.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 requires dealers to supply goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. However, the vehicle is clearly not roadworthy. You are therefore in breach of contract.

 I am legally entitled to ask that your repair or replace this vehicle at no further cost to me. If you are unable to do so, I expect to be reimbursed the original purchase price of £xxxx, minus an agreed amount for fair usage.

If you fail to reimburse me, I shall have no alternative but to issue a claim against you in the county court for recovery of the money without further reference to you.

Yours faithfully,

[BankFodder]

Don't send it yet.

[BankFodder]

Does this do the job?
Please check it over and see if there's anything missing or anything you think should be taken out.

 

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

Letter of claim

 

I refer to the vehicle which you sold to me on a XXX date registration number XXX.

As you know, on XXX date I reported to you that the automatic gearbox was now making noises and was clearly demonstrating serious defects. You have declined to accept any responsibility for this apparently on the basis that I had had the vehicle for more than 30 days.

I have been in contact with the finance company – Advantage Finance Ltd – and informed them about the defect and they have also declined responsibility although they have emailed me with an instruction not to drive the vehicle any more in its present condition.

Also as I'm sure you must realise, you are subject to the provisions of the Consumer Rights Act in addition to the general law of contract.  So are the finance company because this is a hire purchase agreement. Therefore they have legal obligations under the Consumer Credit Act as well as The Consumer Rights Act.

It is clear that the vehicle is not of satisfactory quality and as the defects have manifested within the first six months of my ownership,  you have been given an opportunity to repair the vehicle and you have declined.

 

Furthermore, on examination of the paperwork, it is clear that an important gearbox service which should have been scheduled at 105000 miles was not carried out.

 

Ford themselves have now provided me with a confirmation in writing that the gearbox should be serviced at this level of mileage and in fact I understand that the gearbox should be serviced every 35,000 miles or else one can expect trouble.

Since the purchase you have confirmed to me that although it was serviced at 106,000 miles, it was not a full service and did not include the gearbox. This failure to service at the correct interval is itself a defect in the service history and frankly I do not see how it can be remedied as you can not go back in time.

I have also been informed by the finance company that their own mechanic has concluded that the gearbox needs to be replaced.

 

In case you're not aware, not only are you obliged to sell me a vehicle of satisfactory quality, but it also must remain in a satisfactory condition for a reasonable period of time. Clearly this has not happened and you are in breach of contract.

The finance company has instructed me not to drive the vehicle.  It is now in storage at an independent garage and there will be an invoicIn case you're not for the cost of storage which I will be presenting to you when this matter is concluded. I would urge you to deal with this quickly because the longer it goes on, the greater will be the storage fee that you will have to pay.

I'm writing to inform you that if you will not refund me my money plus ancillary expenses or if you will not carry out a satisfactory repair on the vehicle, that I'm proposing to sue you in the County Court.

You should understand that although my hire purchase contract is ostensibly with Advantage Finance as third party beneficiary to the contract I enjoy full rights of direct action in the courts under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and it will be on that basis that I shall begin an action against you and without any further notice if you do not cooperate this matter.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[just_jue]

That is brilliant, do we have to give them a certain amount of time to respond?

[BankFodder]

Yes, 14 days. There are a few loose ends on the letter to tidy up including that – but go over it carefully.

[BankFodder]

I can't quite remember where we are on this. They now say that it needs a full gearbox whereas in the letter I suggested that they can have an opportunity to repair. However, I understand from you that you don't want to deal with them any more – and I think you're right. Also, a failed gearbox means that the car is so fundamentally not of satisfactory quality that you are entitled to treat the contract as terminated.
On that basis, it might be better simply to say that you are treating the contract is terminated and that you want your money back.

How does that sound?

Also I'm wondering how to communicate the news to the finance company.

[just_jue]

I just feel that it will be expensive to replace the gearbox and I have a feeling that the garage will sadly ignore this letter but they have to have the option to repair it.

[BankFodder]

Yes, I feel that the best thing to do is not give them the option. The other thing is that if they happen to repair the gearbox – then you have no idea of the quality of the work. The finance company mechanic has said that it has to be replaced.

The next thing is that even though you have fallen out the garage, because you have bought it from them you are dependent on them for remedying defects so that the car remains of satisfactory quality for a reasonable period of time. I don't think you can have confidence that they will do a decent job or that they will do it willingly.

I think you have enough here to terminate the contract and that's what I think you should do. I think you need to get shot of it so that you then don't end up driving this car always worried about having to go back to this garage who you don't like and who doesn't like you.

[just_jue]

I think it's best to get rid of the car.

 

But it's going to be a struggle.