Jump to content

  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • No problem. Glad we helped.
    • Well, I'm not having that luck. A quick google shows that I'm not the only one either.   It's very hit and miss it seems.   Currently, I'm looking for some recourse, as this is eating my and my sister's inheritance up in interest and government fees, when it should have been a cut and shut case.
    • Doing it that way does add an extra chance for a screw up in that someone has to marry the physical will to your online application.  Does seem a recipe for disaster.  Can’t see that a determination to move all applications online will be an improvement.  Doing it all with pen and paper and using snail mail last year I got the email to say they’d received it within days and probate granted a couple of weeks later both times.
    • HSBC has announced the closure of 82 sites across the UK as part of a wider strategy to create four new types of branches View the full article
    • @BankFodder   I have obtained 3x independent Quotes, the average of the quotes was 24,000 including VAT but not including things like sanitary ware if that is damaged trying to rectify his works or new tiles.  In addition I have already spent £1000 and anticipate needing temporary accommodation for at least 1month but it is hard to know how long the works will take.  I need to to exact calculations, and it is difficult to predict all costs but I believe in total I am looking at between £28,000 and £30,000   Here is a chronological bullet points of events, which I have sent to the builder and attempts at communications, it is still not short.    May 2018- works began October/November  2018 Original work completed. 19th April 2019- first contacted builder with regards to patio doors; said he would get back to me. May 2019- apologised for the delay and said he had hurt his knee  17th June 2019-  I chased him and said there were further issues I wanted to discuss and asked for him to arrange a walk through- we were unable to agree to a suitable time due to him only being available whilst I was at work.  My lodger then was ill and I suggested waiting until after his trip to glastonbury, .  4th July 2019- he contacted me to arrange times which responded to. I didn't get any further response. 26th July 2019- I chased him- no response. 31st July 2019- bumped into him in the street and he said things were tricky at home with his child and would be in touch. 9th August 2019- had heard nothing so chased again.  Further conversation. 18th August 2019- he contacted to ask if I was free on 19th august, we arranged that would be ok for you to come for a walk through 19th august 2019.  he came to look at the issues- patio doors, bathroom grout behind shower, shower seal (it was leaking), bubbling& cracking plaster in the bathroom, joins of plasterboard buldging, loose floor tiles, sticking windows in the loft (unable to lock or close with ease) , leaking back porch , cracks on joints of plaster, gaps in frame of doors, gaps around and under fire doors, staircase looking not straight.   We arranged for him to come on 3rd September. 2nd September 2019- he messaged to say that he was no longer able to attend the following day due to meetings regarding his child. Asked for key to let himself in and do it when he was able to whilst I was at work. I responded and suggested some local services to help with his family circumstances.  Also outlined priorities and said I wasn't willing to leave a key as I wished to be there. I suggested he propose another suitable date.  4th October 2019- he got in touch with a proposed date of 15th.  5th October 2019 I agreed and asked if the back bedroom plasterwork (outstanding from completion) could be done then too.  I got no response. 6th October 2019- I contacted him to alert him to the face that the roof was leaking through the bathroom light. I said i felt it needed to be resolved before the 15th October when he planned to be here as it was an active leak.    11th October 2019- he messaged to say that you contacted my partner when unable to get in touch with me,  he no longer wished to speak via my partner as he mentioned reporting him if he didn't start resolving things.  11th october phonecall- arranged 16th October  instead of 15th to come over to do things.  15th October 2019- i contacted again to say that the bathroom leak has worsened.  he responded to say that he would be there on 16th as arranged.  I responded to say that this was for information purposes to let him know it wasn't an isolated incident. 16th October- he did not come to the house. he texted to say that his day was consumed by his daughter and he would come the following week (w/c 21st).  21st October- he messaged to say the ladder he needed had not arrived and he wouldn't be coming until Wednesday 23rd. 23rd October- I messaged to ask what time to expect him.  he replied to say not until saturday or sunday.  26th October- he messaged to say he was off to merchants and would be here at 9 and he planed  to start in the shower room. he then messaged to say nearer 9.30. I said ok. then he said 10.  I messaged to ask what the hold up was as I had to go out to get something.  he arrived around 10.30. 26th October2019 -  Bathroom-he was to regrout shower, floor , fix the silicone seal and fix the fall on the shower drainage.  He did the sillicone, in white (not clear as previous) and although sealed, the silicone is extremely messy .  The grout is still cracked or missing from between the shower tiles.  the floor- he removed and redid a tile but this was not flat to the floor and the tiles are loose once again.    I also raised the bubbling of paint and the plasterboard joins etc and he suggested this was due to me not doing a proper mist coat (which I did) when decorating. he wet vacuumed the drain in the shower which didn't resolve anything. Back porch- he was to rectify this as it was leaking- he coated this in something rubbery I believe. On this day he also went onto the loft roof and was to recoat and reseal. patio doors- adjusted, UPVC windows upstairs adjusted.  he left saying he would check warranty on the UPVC glazing items and would  be in touch to see how things were but did not get in touch.  31st October-  I had the back, lower bedroom replastered by someone else to fix issues caused by him not weather proofing the loft when the roof had been removed and his men putting their feet through the ceiling 3 times.  16th february 2020- I contacted him to let him know the patio doors were leaking at the joins, the bottom as well as part way up the frame at the join to the wall.  I let him know there were still issues with other things such as the shower, drain,  etc and I got no reponse.  (At this stage the roof was not leaking again)  18th february-  I emailed to the same effect as 16th Feb.  I included photographs.  I got no response.  May 2020- my roof began to leak again.  28th May 2020-  I contacted my insurance legal helpline who suggested I get quotes from independent builders to find a middle quote. This took some time- many builders in the area were either not working due to covid, had long waiting lists or did not wish to take on the job because it was rectifying mistakes.  June 2020- I began to  collate all information regarding this situation, printed and filed all original communications, quotes, estimates and invoices.  September 2020- had the final quote, submitted a claim for legal assistance to my  insurer.   October- 2020- claim denied by legal cover.  complained.  Ongoing.    October 2020- contacted builder again (from another number, he answered!) with all information,  including other quotes, photographs. Said I was looking for refund/partial refund to cover the cost of rectification of works plus consequential losses and inconvenience.  Asked if he was willing to engage to try to rectify.  He said he had lots on and wasn't able to fix it and I said I wasn't looking for him to do this, I was looking for refund to cover the cost of fixing.  he said he had insurance and would contact his broker.    November2020- admitted fault and says he used the wrong tape on the roof.  Says he has submitted a claim through his broker, he asked me for a timeline, which I provided as above.  I have asked for a claim reference number, the insurance company details or any info he has about the process and expected timeline.  He ignored this request. December 2020- I contacted again  several times , asking again for the insurance details and if he would be willing to organise scaffolding and a temporary roof to mitigate his losses and prevent further damage to my home.  He ignored any information and the request to weatherproof the house, he just kept texting to say 'no news' then told me he was going on Annual leave until January 4th 2021.    January 2021, he has not contacted me and so I sent the above letter which I included in my OP.                     
  • Our picks

    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

Crystal Clear Ltd in Letchworth - Admitted Wrong Glass Supplied - Am I entitled to a refund?

Recommended Posts

I notice that you say that you want to keep the frames but you want to reject the glass. Is this necessary? It seems to me to complicate the issue. If they simply refund you and then don't want to deal with you any more, will you be able to obtain the glass you want in order to fit those frames from some other supplier? Have you identified that other supplier and have you taken a quote for an equivalent installation?

Where is the glass now?

Are you suffering any inconvenience at the moment? Have you incurred any ancillary losses as a result of their breach of contract?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Think you've got the wrong Crystal there Slick132...it's Crystal Clear Group Ltd. There's a lot of companies with Crystal in the name!


I agree could take out the struck through part about evidence, although they already have it all already, but I think I need to leave the part about mediation/ADR in, it's important to show I'm open to these, that and the next line came from a template letter before action.  Have asked for that post to be removed via the report button, just in case, the rest of the thread can stay!





The frames are fine, no reason not to keep them, though I could reorder frames from somewhere else it'd be easier to keep these ones as I then already have the measurements for the glass (which I've double checked). I will be asking that question tomorrow though. I have found another supplier I'd be happy to use at around the same price. Glass at the mo is stored mostly upstairs, it's a bit inconvenient as it takes up a lot of space, but no losses as such.


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, we please deal urgently with the identity of this company. In the title to this thread they are identified as being in Letchworth. This is not correct? We do not want to start firing off accusations against some company elsewhere may be is doing its job perfectly well. Please can you respond to this urgently

Post up a link to their website

Link to post
Share on other sites

In terms of your letter of claim, you've asked us to remove some information – but you have put it up and it's not that critical it's simply bad practice and so we will be leaving in place. It's highly unlikely that the company will stumble across this thread – and anyway no great harm done – but there is no point in spelling out in a letter of claim every detail of the evidence you are going to be relying on if it goes to court.

In terms of referring to mediation, it's not up to you. It's up to them. Once again you want to play your hand before it is necessary. Do not do it. Let them make the decisions. They probably will opt for mediation as part of the court process – and then you can simply accede to that. A letter of claim is not the time to start stating this kind of stuff. You come here for advice and I suggest that by and large you follow our advice.

In terms of just keeping part of the contract – the frames – as long as you are sure that another supplier would be prepared to supply the glass which is absolutely appropriate for those frames.

However, I should warn you that mixing your suppliers like this can eventually lead to problems because you are giving both parties a means by which they can pass the buck onto the other party. This really can get complicated – if the frames fail and the company with which you've already fallen out, then decides to get their own back and they say it is the glass supplier. The glass supplier may well turn round and say no it's the frame supplier – and you are left in the middle and you will have a difficult problem including maybe having to pay for an independent assessment to ascertain whether liability lies.

In my view its most ill-advised. You have an opportunity here to predicate your rejection on the fact that you had a single contract and the glass and the frames are supplied as a job lot and the defective glass means that the entire contract is subject to rejection.

However, it's up to you. Furthermore, if the frames fail within a particular time, apart from the problem of passing the buck to the glass suppliers, you may find that the frame suppliers are quite reluctant to do any further business with you because they will have long memories.

If you really think that after this litigation the frame suppliers will be prepared to continue with you and to supply the glass that you need, then you need to be very certain. Of course they may be very pragmatic and business minded and mature about their dealings and be prepared to supply you with the glass you need with perfectly goodwill and professionalism. However, you shouldn't bank on it.

All it needs is one individual within the organisation start feeling that the whole thing is some kind of personal rebuke against them and they may set out to make life very difficult for you.


Anyway, that's my two pennies worth. I think you should follow our advice in terms of legal process and the letter of claim. The rest of it is to how you deal with your windows is simply a bonus for you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 21/11/2020 at 05:56, Gardener_41 said:

...you're right, it's Crystal Clear Ltd in Letchworth (though they have multiple locations all over). 


  • Thanks 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting point on the mediation, I thought I had to make it clear I was prepared to do that. If they chose to go directly court without offering it, presumably that reflects badly on them. I'm not concerned about the frames falling apart, it's the same frames I had back in 2012 from a different company and they were still fine when I sold my flat last year. Glaziers I'm sure I can find somewhere else (and already have - a different glass supplier to that which Crystal uses). But you make a good point, I may well reject the lot!


It's this company http://crystal-direct.co.uk/



Edited by Gardener_41
forgot to add that glass supplier I'd found was not the same as company uses
Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have first say in the choice of mediation. They have to indicate it in their defence that they are prepared to go for mediation or rather in their directions questionnaire. Then if you don't object – it goes to mediation.

Although it really shouldn't make any difference, quite frankly by offering to go to mediation it already looks as if you are trying to propose some kind of compromise. Don't do it

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I've shortened the rest of it considerably. Not sure what to do with this paragraph though?!


Repeated requests for a refund on the glazing only have been met with refusal citing your terms and conditions and stating you will only reorder the glass. I would point out that this variation of specification was not by prior agreement, and hence I am not bound to pay for it under your own terms and conditions (2.3 No variation to the Contract shall be binding unless agreed in writing by authorised representatives of the parties). Additionally as the item has not been made to my specifications clause 3.5 is negated (3.5 Cancellation - All Crystal products are ‘made to measure’ This means that where goods have been manufactured ‘made to measure’ due a customer’s specifications, they will become non-returnable and non-refundable.’ Furthermore, term 3.5 is not even included in the terms and conditions I received in the order acknowledgement.



Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm not sure that you have posted up your new abbreviated version so it's difficult to know what you're talking about

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this do the job?





Dear Sir/Mdm


Letter of claim


On XXX date I entered into a contract with you for windows – reference number XXX.

The requirements were clearly laid out and specified in my email of XXX date.

Despite that you eventually supplied items which did not tally with the agreed specification and although I have asserted my right to reject the goods under the Consumer Rights Act, you have refused to comply with your statutory obligations and you appear to be saying that because the goods are supplied were "made-to-measure" that you are not obliged to accept my rejection and to refund me the price.

I have already tried to point out you that these goods were supplied not as agreed so in that respect they are defective. In any event I should also point out you that whatever the circumstances, even if you supply goods which are made to the agreed specification, if they are defective then I would be entitled to reject them.

You are continuing to refuse to reimburse me and so I'm writing to inform you that if you do not make arrangements to collect the defective items and to refund me in full within 14 days then I shall issue proceedings against you in the County Court for full reimbursement, plus any expenses incurred as a result of your breach, plus interest plus my costs.

Yours faithfully



Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks good, though I'd possibly have to change it to be asserting my right as part of the letter. I have sent them a previous e-mail with the words 'I do not accept this item, which is effectively 
not as described and as such am entitled to a refund under the consumer rights act 2015.' But I didn't use the words "right to reject", I was going to do it after taking the legal advice tomorrow and put it in the letter itself...the 30 days runs out on 5th so still time but not much. I have the name of their CEO, Martin Randall, and his address and plan to send copies both to his listed address and the Letchworth address. I think I'll start Dear Sir and just address the envelope FAO Martin Randall CEO Crystal Direct.



Edited by Gardener_41
Link to post
Share on other sites

however you modified the letter, please post it here. However, I'm concerned that you are apparently taking separate legal advice. If this is what you're doing then I'm not too sure that we should be helping you because it is possible that you could receive advice which although not directly conflicting, could be odds with each other in some way.

if you are receiving advice from a professional solicitor then I think that we will probably have to withdraw from this


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, it will a limited half hour conversation tomorrow. But that will be it, mainly it's to definitely get clear in my head that I am entitled to a refund before sending the letter. Will feed back what I can though. Modified slightly below:-


Dear Sir/Madam,



On xx/xx/xx date I entered into a contract with you for windows – reference the signed quotation number xxxxxx

The requirements were clearly laid out and specified in the signed quote attached to my e-mail of date xx/xx/xx.

Despite that you eventually supplied items which did not tally with the agreed specification. I have, and am asserting now, the right to reject the goods under the Consumer Rights Act 2015.  You appear to be saying that because the goods supplied were "made-to-measure" that you are not obliged to accept my rejection and to refund me the price; as such you are refusing to comply with your statutory obligations.

I have already tried to point out you that these goods were supplied not as agreed so in that respect they are defective. In any event I should also point out you that whatever the circumstances, even if you supply goods which are made to the agreed specification, if they are defective then I would be entitled to reject them.

You are continuing to refuse to reimburse me and so I'm writing to inform you that if you do not make arrangements to collect the defective items and to refund me in full within 14 days then I shall issue proceedings against you in the County Court for full reimbursement, plus any expenses incurred as a result of your breach, plus interest plus my costs.

Yours faithfully,




Tom Legerton

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BF,


I've removed reference to the wrongly named company in post #24.

  • Like 1

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING



                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group


Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.


Thanks !:-)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I'm pleased that you are managing to get half hour of free professional legal advice. However, I think you should have started there first. You have had several hours of free legal advice on this forum from a volunteer team which has nothing to gain from any of it.
If your professional solicitor disagrees with what we say here then presumably you will go and make your own way – which is fine. We don't have any problem with that and don't think that is sour grapes. However, it will mean that the time and enthusiasm which has been invested here has gone to waste.

If you had gone to your free professional solicitor first of all you could have formed a view and then if you had come to us for help, there would have been no risk of this free resource being wasted.  We can scarcely cope with the workload as it is.

The Consumer Action Group isn't another piece of social media chat group. It's a serious legal consumer service which is run on the goodwill of its volunteers and has been going for almost 15 years and which can scarcely meet its expenses.

It may be that Facebook or a WhatsApp group would have been more suitable for you as a starting point.

I hope you get some good advice from your professional solicitor and if it chimes with what we say here then you can certainly continue to use us but for the moment I think we'll stand aside.

Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?

  • Create New...