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Hermes damaged my parcel 'beyond repair' and then disposed of it!


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Hi all, I am both humbled and intimidated by the expertise here! I am new to the site so please be gentle.

 

The issue that I have experienced was:

I booked a delivery with Hermes, on the parcel 2 go website, to send a computer component (graphics card) which I had sold via ebay.


I chose next day delivery with signature and delivery guarantee (I did not take out the optional insurance) and delivered the parcel to the drop off point on 08/11/20


I was very distressed to learn on 10/11/20 that Hermes had damaged my parcel, I immediately requested it to be returned, so that I could repair it or salvage it for parts and I was told it would be returned to me in the next 24hrs.


Instead of returning it, Hermes tracking on 11/11/20 stated it was damaged beyond repair. I asked that it still be returned for the reasons above.


I was then told that the package was deemed hazardous and had been thrown away?! I asked to see the item, a photo or to collect it, I was told a flat No.


The item is my property and throwing it away against my wishes was outrageous. It was not their property to dispose of and is more than a little convenient that they can just 'disappear' this expensive and highly sought after tech item.


The contents were in no way hazardous, there was no glass, no liquids and it was very well packed. It was a computer component and I have attached a picture of it. I also have photos of internal and external packaging, I have an admission in writing from Hermes, that it was thrown away.


My contract is with P2G yes but because Hermes has refused to provide evidence of the damage they are claiming has occurred, P2G are not very interested in helping and after rejecting my claim seven times for various reasons, including me not providing images of the damaged item?! They finally offered me a settlement of £20, which I have rejected, twice.

 

I appreciate that the item was not insured, the insurance was expensive, the cover was poor and I was not making much profit on the item, so I upgraded the delivery every other way, including making it 24hr, as I thought it would not go so wrong. I however find it incredulous, that they have provided no proof, no item and no way for me to collect it.

 

Naturally I am really upset I did not take out the expensive insurance, considering how P2G have fought tooth and nail not to pay me £20, they would have really gone to the mat over £650. I just feel they had no right to throw the item away and should have provided a photo of the damage, for insurance reasons at the very least.

 

Is there anything I can do here?

I have written to both Hermes and P2G through resolver website.

I have rejected the P2G offer and have kept all chat logs.

 

Thankyou in advance for any help and I am fully prepared to go as far as necessary to get a fair result here.

 

 

 

 

pix.pdf

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes i have been looking at them and continue to look they do not match my situation identically as far as I have seen, so I was hoping for a more personalised response. 

 

Best regards

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Please monitor this thread for a reply tomorrow

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Firstly, a little less of the being humbled and being intimidated would be a better approach when dealing with this kind of problem.

 

Secondly, this is a self-help forum and so although we give advice, personalised responses are not necessarily part of it – and the whole thing counts a lot on you reading around the various stories on the sub- forum for you to understand the principles which came into play in each story and to tease out the bits that are relevant to you. You say that you don't find anything which matches your situation identically – I'm sure that's right. But if you understand the principles then that's all that matters.

The threads which was suggested by my site team colleague @dx100uk acted as a very important signpost as to the issues which are involved and the principles which will come in play and you should read them and others very closely so that you develop an overview based on the experience of others.

You should also understand that this thread is not only for you, it's for anybody else who comes along with similar problems and wants to understand the situation. This is why you are able to benefit from the stories of others – because they are all available on this forum for anyone to read.
So don't knock it.

The first thing I understand is that you used Parcel2Go to select Hermes to deliver your graphics card which apparently is worth £650. That was a Big Fail.

You seem to be regretting the fact that you didn't buy an insurance cover for it – but hopefully you will have read around sufficient stories on this forum to understand that firstly it's unfair to be required to insure yourself against the negligence or criminal activities of the courier. It is they who should be insuring themselves against their own failings.
Secondly, you will probably have learned that a very large number of people, even though they have bought this so-called insurance, still get their claims rejected on all source of spurious grounds.
It seems to me that your real source of regret should be that you went with Hermes – not that you didn't insure.

An interesting aspect of your case is the fact that they apparently have claimed that it was damaged beyond repair and therefore destroyed. We have had this come up a few times – and in fact my site team colleague referred you to one of those cases which you should now be following and which we are still dealing with and so there will be some interesting lessons to be learned. To that extent, we will learn some things from your case as well.

However, we tend to find that although the initial information from the courier or the broker is that the item was damaged and then destroyed, when it actually comes down to mounting a defence in the court papers, they have avoided using this justification and simply said that the item was lost.

My view is that if they start to say that they have taken it upon themselves to throw away people's property because it was damaged, that they are on very shaky grounds and frankly that would be a very serious basis for concern.

I am quite looking forward to an opportunity for the issue of the property being damaged and then thrown away to come up in court proceedings. I think we really need to get a judge to look at this and to pronounce on this.
I'm not aware that there is any contractual provision which purports to allow them to do this – and in any event I think it would be unfair. At the very least there should be evidence and there should be an explanation of why the damaged parcel posed a danger to anybody and therefore had to be destroyed.

I suspect that in the end, if you issue court proceedings – as I'm sure you will have to – that they will stop referring to the fact that it was damaged and simply say that it was lost. That seems to be the usual pattern.

As you will see, the majority of Hermes cases involve contracts which have been arranged through Packlink – which seems to be Hermes pet broker and who of course are conveniently domiciled in Spain – out of the reach of most complainants. Hermes regularly tries to put people off by saying that there is no contract directly with them but only with Packlink. You will see in your reading of this sub- forum that people enjoy third party rights to sue Hermes and frankly it is an abuse of process and fundamentally dishonest of Hermes even to suggest otherwise. Hermes sign their defences use a statement of truth and it seems to me that they are well aware of the third-party situation. In fact we just recently had a success through the mediation where apparently the mediator indicated that they were aware of the third-party rights.

In your case, the issue of Packlink doesn't arise. You arranged the delivery through Parcel2Go and they are domiciled in the UK. This means that you can either sue parcel2go or Hermes.

As Parcel2Go is the first party contracting partner, it is probably better to sue them rather than Hermes – and also I think it will be interesting to cause a bit of tension between the two of them and this might happen if you sue Parcel2Go and they find that they are being held liable for the negligence or criminal activity of Hermes. Of course it's just a drop in the ocean for them – but every little bit of tension will help.

The story is you have posted it is rather rambling and icludes lots of "distress", "upset", incredulity, outrage et cetera.

I think it would be helpful if you would simply repost your story but using a bullet pointed chronology so that we have a timeline point by point. Don't bother about the narrative.

Also, if you have put in a complaint to parcel2go then maybe you could post that up here and also their response denying you liability.

Also if you have something from Hermes saying that it has been destroyed, please post that up here as well.

Apart from that keep on reading round the sub forms. Make sure that you thoroughly understand how it all works out so that you have your own "personalised" view of your position.

Also it would probably be a good idea to start reading round this forum about how to bring a small claim in the County Court.

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Thankyou for your response BankFodder,

 

Here is my timeline:

 

  • 08/11/20 Parcel Dropped to Hermes Drop Off Point
  • 09/11/20 Parcel Collected by Hermes
  • 10/11/20 Parcel Out for Delivery then Updated to Damaged
  • 10/11/20 I contacted Parcel2Go Livechat and requested to know what had happened. P2G send email to Hermes passing my request to deliver the item regardless of damage.
  • 11/11/20 Parcel reported as Damaged Beyond Repair
  • 11/11/20 I contacted P2G Livechat and requested explanation. They emailed Hermes again.
  • 12/11/20 Hermes acknowledge email and report that the item was disposed of as too hazardous to deliver (see attachment).
  • 15/11/20 I emailed CEO of Hermes directly,  for assistance in my case. The email was just forwarded to customer services and appears in my Hermes portal, unanswered.
  • 17/11/20 I raised 'Resolver' cases against both Hermes and P2G.
  • 18/11/20 Hermes contact me by email asking for my phone number, tracking number and address. I provide this immediately.
  • 18/11/20 Documents submitted to P2G to make a claim. Documents Accepted.
  • 19/11/20 P2G Make offer of £20, I reject this (see attached screenshot).
  • 19/11/20 I chased Hermes by email for the requested call. No response.
  • 20/11/20 Hermes responds to my Resolver case with an automated response saying I will get a reply within 24hrs.
  • 20/11/20 P2G re-send original offer of £20
  • 20/11/20 I reject offer once more.

Thankyou for the advice, I am reading the cases you directed me to.

 

Best Regards

Hermes Screenshot.jpg

P2G Case Screenshot.jpg

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Okay well it seems to me that you are at a point where you may as well issue a letter of claim against parcel2go.

Read around, understand the principles.

Spend some time understanding the steps involved in bringing a small claim. Understand also that it will probably go to mediation – although we're not entirely sure what parcel2go's response pattern is like because we are more used to dealing with Hermes.

Understand how mediation normally works. The role of the mediator. The attempt to make you compromise on your rights and whether you want to choose to put your heels in and insist on the lot.

Make sure that you are happy to incur the costs of bringing a small claim for this value – which will probably about a hundred quid or so – which you will get back if you win. However, be prepared to accept the risk of losing and that you might then lose your court fees as well.

Come back here when you're sure that this is what you want to do and you want to issue the claim and we will help you through the next step

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Thankyou,

 

I am drafting my letter of claim, as it has to posted the day it is dated, I have a few days to get the letter correct. This also gives them an opportunity to further hang themselves by not responding to previous Emails/Claims/Resolver cases.

 

I have registered with the Gov website, in preparation for making a claim, which I understand would not proceed until 30days after the letter of claim is received by them.

 

Best regards

Edited by bluemarineguy
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Okay, that letter of claim will do. It's a bit wordy – but it doesn't matter.

Send it off and register on the moneyclaim website and start preparing your claim. You can save your work as you go. Post your proposed particulars of claim here for us to have a look. Keep them brief.

There will be a checkbox for you to tick if you want to send further particulars of claim but I don't think you need to. Don't tick the box although let us see your particulars of claim first.

Get ready to click the claim off on day 15

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Thankyou Bankfodder,

 

I will send the letter on Monday, first class recorded.

 

I have all but paid for my Money Claim. I am ready to hit go on day 14. 

 

The particulars of claim I have listed are as follows:

 

Quote

I paid Parcel2Go (P2G) to deliver a parcel for me, via their website. Delivery was 24hr, with signature and delivery guarantee. My parcel contained a computer component, that I had sold on Ebay. Parcel2Go contracted Hermes to deliver the parcel. On the day of expected delivery, Hermes informed P2G that my parcel was damaged. This was a very well packaged item, in its original packaging, wrapped in bubblewrap, then packed into a larger box surrounded by airpillows. I requested that the item be delivered regardless, returned, or I would collect it from the depot. The day following this, Hermes informed P2G that the parcel had been damaged beyond repair and that they had disposed of it. I complained to P2G but they were unwilling to provide me with photographic evidence of the damage and were unwilling to allow me to collect my property. My claim is that P2G are in breach of contract as their contracted courier has not only been negligent with my property but also has disposed of it, against my wishes and without providing either explanation or proof as to why they have done so.

 

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I expect you only need about a quarter of that. We'll have a look tomorrow or during the week

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Use this as a basis

 

 

Quote

I used the defendants' service to courier a parcel containing a computer component to and address in XXXtown. Reference number XXXX using a signed for 24hour guaranteed delivery option. On the day of expected delivery, I was informed that my parcel was damaged. I requested the return of my property but in breach of this instruction the item was apparently destroyed.The defendant has declined to provide evidence of the damage or the destruction  and had no authority to deal with my property in this way in any event.

 

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