Motorhub Motorsure Ltd , Keighley - Car engine seized on the way home from dealer

[Misa500]

Thank you for adding me to the group. 

 

My partner bought a vehicle from a dealership yesterday, it was 200 miles away but it was the car he wanted.

He was unable to test drive it due to current regulations and purchased the vehicle as a click and collect.

He paid £13k.

 

On the way home (30 min into the drive) the engine management light came on so he stopped and called the dealer who advised it is normal as the car was not driven in a while. So he continued driving. 

 

After another 15 miles or so away the engine ceased and smoke came from the engine. 

Again he called the dealer who agreed to come and tow the car back to the dealership.

The dealer told him they will repair under warranty or refund the money.

My partner went home by train. 

 

Today the dealer called him and told him the engine was blown and it was my partner’s fault as he must have seen the temp gauge and advised to come and tow the car to London.

 

He refused to repair or refund the money.

Where do we go from here, please?

[BankFodder]

Please read our customer services guide and implement the advice there.

This means that you should record all calls and keep detailed notes of everything that is said.

If a defect manifests itself within the first 30 days then you are entitled under the consumer rights act to reject the item you bought and obtain a refund.

You have to assert this right which means that you must write to the dealer immediately and say that you are rejecting the vehicle under the consumer rights act 2015 and that you want a refund of your money within the next seven days.

You should understand that simply because you write this letter doesn't necessary mean that the money is suddenly going to come flooding in. We are finding a great number of dealers who are simply ignoring their customers consumer rights. However, you should write this letter in order to reserve your position. It is an important first step.

Please can you tell us the name of the dealer.

Also you should start keeping a detailed list of all the expenses that you have been put to – including train fares et cetera to collect the car and also to get back. All of these expenses are recoverable.

Please monitor this thread for a fuller reply tomorrow but please let us know the name of the dealer



 

[Misa500]

Thank you for your reply. The name of the dealer is Motorhub in Bradford 

 

https://www.motor-hub.co.uk/

[BankFodder]

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/motor-hub.co.uk

 

 

Quote

Keighley car dealer ordered to pay £53,000-plus for misleading customers

By Alistair Shand

The Motorhub premises in Keighley. Picture: Google Streetview

 

   

 

 

A SECOND-hand car dealer based in Keighley has been ordered to pay £53,567 for vehicle sales that misled consumers.

The fines were handed down at Leeds Magistrates Court after the company entered guilty pleas relating to six breaches of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

Motorsure Limited - which trades under the name Motorhub at Damside, Oakworth Road, Keighley - was investigated by National Trading Standards following complaints from customers who had purchased vehicles from the company between August 2017 and May 2018.

 

The company misled consumers through a range of practices to conceal quality and safety issues with the vehicles.

The complaints included:

• Selling vehicles with covered or disconnected dashboard warning lights to conceal faults with the vehicle

• Failing to disclose recorded mileages were incorrect

• Not declaring that a vehicle had been subject to accident damage

• Failing to disclose a vehicle had previously been used as a taxi.

 

The company also relied on ‘No warranty’ claims to refuse to make refunds or repair vehicles when legally obliged to do so, and staff exhibited intimidating, aggressive and threatening behavior when complaints were made.

The company entered guilty pleas to six offences at York Magistrates’ Court on December 18 last year following an investigation by the National Trading Standards Regional Investigation Team based at City of York Council.

 

https://www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/17620719.keighley-car-dealer-ordered-pay-53-000-plus-misleading-customers/

 

Presumably you didn't check any of the reviews all look through the Internet before you decided to buy this vehicle.

I'm afraid it's not good news.

And if you check the Google reviews, you'll find that they have about two stars out of 443 reviews. That is extremely poor by any standards.

And also seem to be trading as AutoDream

 

 

[Misa500]

It is my boyfriend’s car, sadly no we didn’t check the reviews. But we are not going let them get away with this. We have already reported this to trading standards. 

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid trading standards are unlikely to be a lot of help – although maybe as they have already come to the notice of trading standards in last year's prosecution, that may be a way through.

However, I'm afraid that trading standards are not set up to help you get refunds. They are simply set up to help to regulate standards amongst traders and to prosecute them if necessary. I'm afraid their remit doesn't run to helping individuals get their money back. Also, you should understand that by and large trading standards almost impossible to get hold of.

I'm afraid you will have to take your own action here.
How did you pay for the car?
 

 

[Misa500]

Hi trading standards were quite helpful and issued a reference number and provided timescales before they take action. We have to use the template for getting refund. 

[BankFodder]

Well done.  That is surprising progress.

What were the timescales and could you shows the template?

[Misa500]

It says 14 days to receive response

[BankFodder]

Response from who?  The dealer or TS?

[Misa500]

To receive a response from dealership. If not resolved notify TS to take further action 

[BankFodder]

How did you pay?

[Misa500]

Part cash/ part card. Invoice issued for full amount 

[BankFodder]

Credit card?

How much on the card?

[Misa500]

5k on debit card, 8k cash

[honeybee13]

BankFodder mentioned the name Auto Dreams. Reading around, they have been Keighley Trade Centre, Motorsure Ltd and Motorsure Limited and also had a company called Damside Autos LLP,  if you check them on the Companies House register.

 

The people involved are Mohammed Shakeel, Mohammed Shabir and Naveed Balal Bashir - did you meet any of them?

 

I notice their reviews on Autotrader are far better than on Trustpilot or Google. We did suggest that another cagger should complain to them about a different trader but I don't remember them coming back to tell us what happened.

[Misa500]

Thank you for those names. I will check with the boyfriend if he met any of those people. 
 Yes he looked at the autotrader reviews so I will make sure I add one on to reflect their true service. 

[honeybee13]

I sent you a PM, could you look out for it please?

 

HB

[BankFodder]

This may be quite a long post. We are going to ask you for some help,  – and give some advice as to how to deal with your particular problem.

Firstly the help:
it seems that you've managed to attract the attention of Trading Standards. That is really quite unusual. We deal with thousands of cases on this forum, many of them with retailers and service providers which repeatedly act unfairly and rip off their customers. We try very often to contact trading standards and we never manage to get them to pay any attention.

It will be very helpful to other people who visit this forum to know how you managed to contact Trading Standards – and also to begin some kind of procedure so that they actually gave your reference number and suggested that you completed a template. You haven't told us where or what this template is – and that will be helpful to know as well.

On the other hand, there is just the possibility that you contacted Trading Standards by getting hold of Citizens Advice who have basically said that they will make a reference for you. Maybe you could let us know.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

And now the advice:
in the main, because you've apparently started receiving help from Trading Standards, it's probably not a good idea to change from that to receiving help from us, because there may be conflicting advice which could undermine your confidence in them as well as us. Of course Trading Standards are far more powerful and influential than we are and so as you have started with them – you should probably go on.
However, there are a few things that you should know.

Firstly, you seem to have come across a pretty difficult bunch of car dealers who according to my site in colleague who has posted earlier, have been trading under a number of different names and as we have seen, have also been in trouble and have been prosecuted in the courts.
This doesn't bode well.
The fact that they have been trading under a number of different names – and all of them have very poor reviews – suggest that this is a firm which is Phoenixing.  This means that they trade, customers suffer, and then when people try to get redress against the firm, the firm dissolves or disappears and then resurrect itself under a different name – a different corporate identity – but generally speaking from the same address with the same people involved, but protected by company rules from having to answer to previous creditors/customers/victims.
This means that you need to be aware that this company could disappear and no longer be available to you. I understand that at the moment they have your car and they have your money. This is not a good position to be in.

I suppose you have received some kind of paperwork a receipt from them. We would like very much to know exactly how they describe themselves on the receipt. Certainly on their website they don't describe themselves as a limited liability company – and it would be important to know about this kind of thing. So please can you let us know that.

Second thing is that you may well end up having to bring a County Court claim against this company – hopefully to get your money back. You may not know, but if you bring claims for less than £10,000 then you are protected against the other side's costs in the event that you lose the case. Of course it is most unlikely that you would lose the case on the basis of what you have said – but there is always a risk. If you sue somebody further more than £10,000 then the claim is heard on something called the "fast track" and this means that if you lose the case then you will be responsible for the costs incurred by the winner. This tends to motivate some parties in FastTrack cases to cause delays and cause extra expense because they know that the end of the day there is a huge risk for the litigant in person. The litigant in person in this case is – you.

You have told us that you have paid this money by a mixture of debit card – £5000 – and the balance in cash. I'm very curious to know why you paid the balance in cash and why you didn't pay all on the debit card. It would have been a very easy matter to simply have put the cash into your bank and then to have paid it all by debit card.

Anyway, the important thing is that in terms of the debit card portion, you are entitled to go to your bank and ask them for a chargeback – which basically means that they will reimburse you the portion of the money paid by debit card.
Although the banks don't like chargebacks, they do it – and in your case they will probably do it fairly quickly because apart from anything else, you have a very clear evidence that there is a serious problem with the contract, that you have a trading standards reference number – and that also you can now show the bank the newspaper article that I refer due to earlier in this thread to show the bank that they and used are dealing with a very suspect bunch of people.

Although making the chargeback will only get you a refund of £5000, the important thing is that that will reduce the outstanding sum to less than £10,000 and that means that if you need to bring a County Court action against them, you will be suing for a sum below the small claims limit and in that way you can feel very confident that even if you lose (most unlikely) you will be shielded from having to pay the winners costs.

On that basis, you should begin the chargeback process today. This does not conflict with anything that trading standards might do. This would run in parallel with trading standards – and trading standards wouldn't have any problem with it and you don't even need to inform them about it. Just go ahead immediately, contact your bank and begin the chargeback process – and keep us updated.

The second part of the advice is not exactly criticism of Trading Standards – but as I have already pointed out, Trading Standards are not normally in the business of securing refunds for individuals. If that happens then it would simply be a spin-off of any other action that they might take against the company. Trading Standards exist simply to get companies to behave correctly and if they don't, to prosecute them in order to punish them.
I expect that by now you have read the newspaper article which I refer to you above – and you will see that Motorhub were fined £53,000. But that £53,000 did not go to the victims. That £53,000 went into the public purse. You should notice that the victim surcharge was only £130. That would have been the only sum of money paid over to the victims of this company. If they wanted their own money back they would have had to begin their own legal actions.
This means that the likelihood is that although you have managed to start a complaint to Trading Standards, the likely outcome is that this will result in a warning from Trading Standards – or maybe another prosecution – but it's unlikely to result in a refund of all your money – unless the company Motorhub suddenly think that it's a prudent thing to do – which they might, you never know.

When people come to this forum with this kind of problem, we tend to recommend rapid and assertive action. This would normally involve sending a warning of legal proceedings and then beginning those proceedings within 14 days.
You have now decided to go with Trading Standards and they are taking things at a rather slower pace.
I'm not sure that this is the correct approach and you need to monitor things very carefully.
As I've asked you at the beginning of this very long post, would be grateful if you could tell us far more about your interaction with Trading Standards. It's very interesting.

However, at some point I think that you need to be ready to start issuing your own claim. Hopefully you will have followed my advice which I gave earlier which is to send a written letter of rejection – asserting your rights under the Consumer Rights Act. It is important that you do this immediately. You need to have a paper trail which records this.

Hopefully you will follow my advice and begin the chargeback procedure to recover your £5000 to reduce the outstanding amount to £8000 – plus, of course, your train fares et cetera – the cost of going to pick up the car, the cost of getting back et cetera.

If at some point you decide to bring the legal action then we will help you. It's something that we are very good at. Of course it will be your claim and you will have to do the spade work but we will help you all the way and we will help you draft the necessary documents – which will be fairly simple.

One thing you should realise though is that it is easy enough to bring a court action and it is easy enough to win the action – but after that a judgement has to be enforced. Enforcement can be tricky where a company really doesn't want to settle its debts. There is a risk that that could be the case here.

 

Maybe you would like to post up your letter of rejection before sending it off so that we can comment.

 

 

[Misa500]

Hi 

 

thank you for your reply Bank Fodder.
 

My partner called the local number of Trading standards (that’s what he told me, we don’t live together) and explained the situation to them and they advised to use a complaint letter and request for refund from CAB website. They have advised that he should send the letter giving them 14 days to respond. That’s what we did last night. TS have asked him to get in touch back with the said reference number regardless of the outcome. 
 

To be honest I am not sure why he used cash, he is a builder and the vehicle he bought is a pickup track. He is not very good at writing or researching how to deal with complaints hence my post. I am kind of middle man. 
 

I have asked him to start the charge back process now, so fingers crossed he will. 
 

Do you think we should get the vehicle to an independent garage in the local area? 
 

We have sent the rejection letter to them and requested the refund. 
 

I looked at the invoice and the trading company at the footer of the invoice is Motosure LTD. 
 

To be honest when I buy vehicle I only go to local dealership and research vehicles well and test drive them. I was so annoyed with him for going the Bradford on Sunday I didn’t even look at the vehicle! 
 

 

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this.

Okay – this changes things a little – because I now understand that you haven't contacted Trading Standards. You have contacted Citizens Advice – which is what I rather suspect it – although I hoped that it might have been Trading Standards directly. Although as I have suggested, that would be highly unusual.

I'm afraid that Citizens Advice are well-intentioned – but this might be the most that you can say about them. In terms of assertive action, I'm afraid that companies which decide to phoenix themselves can run rings around them.

You're quite right about going to local dealerships. We have lots of cases here where people buy second-hand cars – although generally speaking they pay far less than you have – and for some reason rather they find one 200 or 300 or even 400 miles away and they fix on it and become obsessed and convinced that in the 26 million cars in Britain, they have identified The One.

They never bothered to factor in all the other difficulties, for instance, of how to handle little defects or servicing which might be needed and the fact that they then have to travel a huge distance to get an exhaust system fixed all windscreen wipers changed or lights repaired et cetera.

It's really crazy – and I would say that the vast majority of second-hand car problems that we receive on this forum are people who have done exactly that – paid £3000 or £4000 for an old car, and probably spent 10% of that price going and picking it up – and then going and taking it back, or accepting the cost of remedying defects because it was all too much trouble.

You are asking whether you should get the car to an independent garage in the local area. Do you still have access to it? It's certainly very troubling that they have your car and your money.

I think that because you are simply involved with Citizens Advice I think you should start considering bringing your own legal action independently because I'm sorry to say that I don't really expect that you are going to get anywhere soon with CA/TS.

Are you sure that your B/F is going to be able to handle the chargeback? It sounds to me as if he needs a bit of looking after!

Please can you post up the letter of rejection

 

 

MOTORSURE LIMITED.pdf

[ukshane4life]

also do review checks on companys

[phil40000]

Many car dealers have multiple company’s and partnerships. Buy their stock using one company name, so all their cars have auction invoices in that name etc. Then sell the cars using another, different company name. The aggrieved buyer ‘wins’ court case and gets judgement against them/CCJ, pays for the bailiffs to go in, bailiffs find all the stock belongs to a different company than the one on the CCJ. And you are pretty much dead in the water.

 

I know this because I personally know others who do it themselves. Also, this exact thing happened to me. I left a car (that was worth several thousand pounds at trade price alone) at a largish garage for repair. Never saw the car again, with the scenario in the paragraph above as the rest of the tale.

 

The ‘people’ behind this place in Burnley do this kind of thing in their sleep. It’s an effective business model for them. The CRA 2015 sounds great when read. But in practice all one has to do is wind the company up and set another up using your wife’s name etc. and you are home free. A licence to rip people off. I remember in ‘15 reading the CRA and everyone ringing each other complaining how strict it was etc. Looking back I can’t believe it!

 

I just can’t believe folk give these people tens of thousands of pounds before checking them out properly. Many garages write their own AT reviews. I despise scumbags in the motor trade because I am lumped in their with them. 
 

Sorry OP, you should follow Bankfodders excellent advice but I have been down that road myself with the results I described. I guess it’s all you can do?

Good luck  

 

 

[BankFodder]

@Misa500 – any update on this?