EPC PCN - overstay - Wish Street, Rye

[DG_123]

Hi.

My daughter and her friend visited a car park managed by Euro Car Parks using ANPR. They paid an initial fee by phone. They were about 30 minutes late topping it up due to having to take an emergency phone call just as the initial period expired but they did top up.

 

They then exited the car park at the end of this period although looks like they were 2 minutes over the end time by the time they actually left.

 

All this was done on my daughter's phone but the car belongs to her friend's mother who received the PCN about a week later.

 

Is this enforceable or can she just ignore it?

 

Thanks.

[FTMDave]

If they really did overstay for two minutes then yes they're free to ignore, there is a minimum 10-minute grace period.

 

Still expect the fleecers to send their "threatening" (not!) letters though.

[FTMDave]

It would help if you could get the keeper to fill in the forum sticky so we can see exactly what the ticket is for and work out what Euro Car Parks have got wrong

 

 

[DG_123]

Hi FTMDave. Thanks for your reply. I will get a copy of the letter from Euro Car Parks and post it here.

 

As mentioned previously, my daughter was about 30 minutes late topping up after the first parking period expired.

It appears that the top-up took effect from the time she phoned in rather than back-dating to the time the previous fee expired.

 

My daughter doesn't know why that happened - she can't remember if there were any options offered to do that.

You would have thought that the system should have been aware that this was a top-up rather than a new entry.

 

So that means they didn't pay for the 29 minute gap between one fee and the other plus the 2 minutes at then end of the stay.

[brassnecked]

Would be really helpful to fill in the questionnaire linked by FTMDave, then we can see what the position is now. an appeal would be counter productive so is not a recommended option.

[DG_123]

Edited. Have now found the link to the questionnaire.

Edited November 15, 2020 by DG_123

[dx100uk]

Well it was only 2 posts up......

[DG_123]

Hi. Have now done that.

 

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

02/11/2020
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

09/11/2020
 

3 Date received

11/11/2020
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Yes
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Euro Car Parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Wish Street, Rye
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

POPLA but they have BPA on their letterhead
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

copy the windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions...

……....

PCN 02.11.20 4.pdf

[dx100uk]

we need the times

[DG_123]

OK. I'd redacted them as I thought it would identify us.

Entry was at 10:46 and exit at 14:20.

My daughter made the first call at 10:47 and received a text to say the parking expired at 12:48.

She made the next call at 13:17 and received a text to say parking would expire at 14:18.

[dx100uk]

its interesting that they don't appear to specifically be stating what part of the imaginary contract was broken

[DG_123]

I would have expected that when the payment was made at 13:17 it would have been backdated to 12:48 giving an expiry of 13:48

[brassnecked]

PPC don't do logic.

[DG_123]

Hi. Any thoughts on what we need to do?

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

other than reading as many threads in this same forum as you can

 

yours is not the next move

[DG_123]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand. Are you saying that we don't need to pay the £100 PCN?

Happy to read up further on it. Is there a particular thread you can point me to that explains it all?

[dx100uk]

correct.

 

doesn't really matter what threads you read here nor really about any specific private parking company either. 

the more you read the stronger we become.

 

it's a speculative invoice 

 

 

[brassnecked]

They call it a PCN hoping people confuse their speculative Invoices with a Penalty Charge Notice, a totally different animal. A PPC has to use Civil County Courts to sue for non payment, and they make so many mistakes and break or bend so many rules suing that it's often tantamount to fraud.

[DG_123]

Thanks for your help. I presume we just wait and see what their next move is.

[DG_123]

One more question as the Keeper is a bit nervous:

 

are you confident that the initial 29 minute over-stay (before they topped up the payment) didn't automatically trigger liability for the £60/£100 charge?

 

Thanks.

[dx100uk]

doesn't matter if it did.

 

see what/if they progress this.

[DG_123]

OK, so best case scenario is they continue to send ever more threatening letters which we read but don't respond to until they finally give up. Worst case - from looking at other threads, seems unlikely - is they send a letter before action at which point we get your advice again? Thanks. Hope I've got that right.

[dx100uk]

sure

its only a speculative invoice

 

99% of people panic as they think these worthless pieces of paper are FINES

they are not!!

 

They are simply an invoice because they think the driver entered into some mythical contract by driving onto private land whereby the landowner might or might not have at one time entered into parking management contract with EPC, that might or not be enforceable or even been annually paid for by the landowner since inception.

 

 

[DG_123]

Thanks. I've had a couple of these before myself but they were caused by errors in reg. no. on the phone payment system so I was pretty sure there was no case to worry about. Interestingly, there was no mention of this Protection of Freedoms Act then even though they happened well after 2012.