CLI Chasing Jamaica National Small Business Loan debt

[syphont]

given the above, where might I find the legal framework that proves emails by themselves cannot reset a statute bar, especially when the email cannot be proven to have originated from me?

Edited December 19, 2020 by syphont

[AndyOrch]

Do you actually know what a Digital Signature is and how to do one ?

 

 

Anyway here is the Jamaican Limitations of Action....no reference to email acknowledgments. 

 

https://moj.gov.jm/sites/default/files/laws/Limitation of Actions Act.pdf

[syphont]

Can you please explain what a digital signature is? Can this not be as simple as typing your name at the end of an email?

 

If there is no evidence that the email came from me, can I deny it?

Edited December 19, 2020 by syphont

[syphont]

By this, my fear is that the creditor can just trump up some email claimng that I sent within the limitation period to make it seem as if I was in communication with them. Is this something that they can do?

 

This is especially true if a digital signature can include just my name typed. From what I hear, CLI is uncscruplous in their tactics.

Edited December 19, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

were this a uk debt by a uk owner/creditor the likelihood of such an email would even be considered by a judge is an extremely remote possibility, there are no examples of an email solely winning regarding what might or might not be an SB'd debt.

 

your debt does not even originate from this country....

 

..all the bs has come from a dca that

is not even registered to trade in this country

has no fca approval

has no consumer credit licence

 

why you persist in worrying about this kite flying amuses me..

 

dx

 

[syphont]

What I would like to know is, legally speaking, what reasong is behind a judge not  basing judgement on an email as proof of communication, alleged or real?

 

Are you saying that the clamiant would need to prove authenticity of the alleged email, or are you saying that they would need other pieces of evidence to support the idea that communication was made?

 

Could you please clarify? Preferably with some piece of legislation if such even exists?

Edited December 19, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

27 minutes ago, syphont said:

Are you saying that the clamiant would need to prove authenticity of the alleged email, or are you saying that they would need other pieces of evidence to support the idea that communication was made?

 both..go find what a judge said upon passing such a judgement ...i can't find one....doesn't exist..neither does this bogus debt...

[syphont]

That's the whole point. I would like to find an example either proving o r disproving. case study, etc.

 

Until then, not finding one is not evidence of not being possible.

 

Should this be the case, is there anything I can do if the creditor alleges an email that I did not send to prove the alleged debt is still valid?

Edited December 19, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

why?

 

what are you SOOO scared of here?

 

it can't hurt to send the SB letter

even if it's not SB'd it doesn't hurt anything and is not acknowledgement of the debt.

 

 

[London1971]

An acknowledgement of the debt is something in writing eg ‘I Xyz acknowledge that I owe xyz x pounds’ in writing, with your signature. Or of course if you have paid them something, however tiny.

 

 

[syphont]

Well, I definitely haven't made any payments to this alleged debt, and I have not sent them a signed letter within the past 6 years saying that I owe them "xyz".

 

Please don't think I am going around in circles. I just have not gotten a specific anwer to the original question:

 

The concern is the claim that I sent them a message one single time, using an address that was terminated several years ago. As it is no longer used. I have no way to verify whether this is the case or not. I have no idea of the possible contents of the message or if they indeed have a record of this possible communication. All I know is that from the fragmented knowledge I do have, it should put the SB'd timeline sometime mid next yea (by my estimate 4-5 months from now). This might explain why they are hotly persuing.

 

I understand the arguments put forward by many of the kind and helpful posters, however I am afraid I will need more than this;

 

1) either there is no physical evidence tying me to any alleged message sent, in which case I simply deny anything to the contrary and the debt is  rendered SB'ed.

 

or

 

2) In the event that I need to defend, I would very much like to to cite a specific instance in case law where this form of communication was successfully proven in a court of law to be insufficient to reset an SB.

 

The other thing that occured to me after reading the latest communication from the DCA is this: the DCA keeps refering to "their client", suggsting that they do not own the debt or possess a DOA. Do they even have a legal claim to be involved without either obtaining legal assignment or equitable assignment from the OC?

 

My understanding is that in a legal assignment of a contract, they are required to send NOA, whereas in an equitable assignment, they are not obligated to, but also cannot initiate any legal preceedings. The fact that I have not received an NOA, would put them into the latter category. In this case, it would have to be the OC that initiates the preceedings. What exactly should my next steps be when I do get a PAP from the DCA? Would this mean that the OC has initiated the preceedings? and If so, should I even be legally expected to communicate woth the DCA who has not proven they have a legal interest in the matter? Is it dangerous for me to ignore a PAP sent directly from them in this case?

 

I would also like to know if there is any way to prolong from reaching a court for as much as possible - atleast until the suspected SB window closes in about 4-5 months from now.

Edited December 20, 2020 by syphont

[London1971]

Just have to wait it out my friend, if a PAP letter comes there will be plenty of help here.

 

I suspect, however that you are in the clear.

[syphont]

OK...

 

So in the mean time, as I prepare for the inevitable, I would be most grateful if any one of you could please instruct me on how to write a letter to the UK collector requesting the following without compromising my case, or encouraging them to continue their harrassment?

1) Proof that the debt has been sold to them (currently the collector is not regulated by the FCA and is refering to the original claimant as "our client") and that they are authorized to act on the claimant's behalf

2) Please note that the letter states "our clients have now instructed us to proceed through the courts in order to collect the above debt" - Does this mean that they are going through the procedures to buy off the debt cheaply? Is it true that they can only sue me for debt if they actually own the debt as they are not regulated to act on the behalf of anyone in the UK?

3) proof of notification of assignment and Deed of Assignment
 

4) proof of a default notice sent by the original claimant
 

5) proof of receipt of payment made by me on or around 2011 (I found an old statement showing that money was paid to the account in 2011). This would have been impossible since I was in the UK at this time, and NEVER made any payment. I have no receipt of this payment ever being made.

 

-If I could proove that I never paid in 2011 (shich I didn't since I was living in the UK and vener wired any mnoney to them) then the whole point is moot since it would have SB'ed in 2014

6) proof that the alleged email is valid as I claim that I never sent them one (could they me spoofing me). If I can prove this than the debt would be statute barred in 2017.
 

7) proof that the debt is not statute barred

Or does any of the above matter in defending my case? Is there anything else I should request from them? Should I even respond to them before getting the PAP, or will this hurt my case?

Edited December 20, 2020 by syphont
Add

[dx100uk]

  

 

OK...

 

So in the mean time, as I prepare for the inevitable, - what is inevitable?

 

I would be most grateful if any one of you could please instruct me on how to write a letter to the UK collector requesting the following without compromising my case, or encouraging them to continue their harassment? - you don't

1) Proof that the debt has been sold to them (currently the collector is not regulated by the FCA and is referring to the original claimant as "our client") and that they are authorized to act on the claimant's behalf - it hasn't been sold.

- Please note that the letter states "our clients have now instructed us to proceed through the courts in order to collect the above debt" -

 

Does this mean that they are going through the procedures to buy off the debt cheaply? nope

 

Is it true that they can only sue me for debt if they actually own the debt as they are not regulated to act on the behalf of anyone in the UK? - regardless to being regulated or not -  only the owner of a debt can raise a claim.

-proof of notification of assignment and Deed of Assignment - only if sold
 

-proof of a default notice sent by the original claimant - CCA doesn't apply to foreign debts
 

-proof of receipt of payment made by me on or around 2011 (I found an old statement showing that money was paid to the account in 2011). This would have been impossible since I was in the UK at this time, and NEVER made any payment. I have no receipt of this payment ever being made. - Jamaican sb is 6yrs? 

-proof that the alleged email is valid as I claim that I never sent them one (could they me spoofing me) - doesn't matter
 

-proof that the debt is not statute barred - not your problem

Or does any of the above matter in defending my case? - you aren't defending anything.

 

Is there anything else I should request from them? - nope.

 

Should I even respond to them before getting the PAP, or will this hurt my case? send our SB [adapted] letter to the debt owner.

 

dx

 

[syphont]

I have to consider worse case scenario where I am issued a PAP so I shouldn't I plan for this before it happens if they eventually buy the debt and it becomes theirs?

How do I do this?

What do I say in my letter?

 

I have to prepare myself against their claim that the debt is not statute barred for the reasons mentioned above as well.

How do I do this?

What do I say?

 

I was told by a lawyer at [removed]  that an email could potentially reset the SB period.

All evidence that I have seen thus far other than what's here says this is the case.

 

The SB period for jamaica is 6 years for simple contracts.

 

Forgive me if I sound like a worry wart, but this thing is keeping me up at night.

I can't sleep or think about anything else.

It is torture and I want it to be over.

 

I cannot afford to pay, and I cannot afford a CCJ as I will be applying for citizenship soon.

I feel stuck in between a rock and a hard place where there is no way out.

 

[dx100uk]

1 hour ago, syphont said:

I will be applying for citizenship soon.

where

[syphont]

to the UK. A CCJ will make this impossible

Edited December 20, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

On 26/11/2020 at 13:52, syphont said:

They stated that they have checked that this address is correct and informed their client that it is now appropriate to take further action against me at this address.

 

so you have lived elsewhere in the UK since you ended up at the address you are at now?

rented?

[London1971]

It’s not ineveitable , it’s not even likely. Since when has a CCJ ever had anything to do with applying for citizenship?

[syphont]

39 minutes ago, dx100uk said:

 

so you have lived elsewhere in the UK since you ended up at the address you are at now?

rented?

yes and yes. The DCA has my most current address.

28 minutes ago, London1971 said:

It’s not ineveitable , it’s not even likely. Since when has a CCJ ever had anything to do with applying for citizenship?

there is a good character clause. if the applicant has a ccj then the application very will likely fail - as per information on immigration website.

Edited December 20, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

sorry but thats not what the immigration website says at all.

...it says ...A CCJ is not a ground on its own to refuse the application

they are not the remotest bit interested in CIVIL matters, only criminal matters and debt in the UK is NOT a criminal offence.

 

and there are SOOOO many if's in your pointless worrying.

 

CLI do NOT own the debt

CLI can't do ANYTHING.

until/unless they buy the debt 

until they issue a PAPLOC

 

all that will take months and months and months

 

in the meantime your citizenship should be done and dusted anyway...CCJ or not ....makes no odds.

 

the DCA does not have your current address as you have not legally told them it 

neither does the debt owner Jamaica National Small Business Loans in writing.

 

as it stands you are far more likely to actually get or already have a CCJ as you've failed to update JNSBL of your correct address = backdoor CCJ. against one of your old ones...than get one via a debt sale now.

 

you don't need to prepare anything before the pap, as thats what the pap reply form is used for .

 

 

 

 

[syphont]

You say DCA does not have my legal address... so why am I getting mail from them at my current address???

 

It says here: "Later on if you seek out naturalisation in the UK, the CCJ may be an issue for the “good character” portion of the application."

 

What is a PAPLOC ? is this the same thing as a pre action protocol?

 

lso, I checked and can confirm that I do not have a CCJ

The claimant also knows my current address, but I ave not told them in writting.

 

Ah. PAP LOC = PAP letter of claim.

Edited December 20, 2020 by syphont

[dx100uk]

legally there is no claimant at this stage 

which is why i KEEP using the term owner which is JNSBL

 

they do NOT legally know your correct and current address as you've never told them in WRITING.

 

stuff CLI they are totally immaterial to everything...IGNORE THEM PLEASE.!!

all they have done is looked at your credit file and sent a few phishing letter wanting a MUG to pay them.

can't keep saying this..

 

 

are all you old UK addresses showing on your credit file?

 

[London1971]

I assure you from personal experience When applying for UK citizenship they won’t even ask to see your credit file. All they care about is that you have X income and X amount in the bank etc.

 

If you are already on indefinite leave to remain, Citizenship is just a formality anyway.

[syphont]

Yes. All my old addresses are there on my credit file.

Is this a bad thing?

What does this mean for me?