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    • Concurrent warrants 83.29 Two or more warrants of control may be issued concurrently for execution by two or more different enforcement agents, but— (a) no more may be levied under all the warrants together than is authorised to be levied under one of them; and (b) unless the court orders otherwise, the costs of more than one warrant will not be allowed against the debtor.   (6) If because of one event, an applicant seeks permission under paragraph (3)(b) to enforce more than one judgment or order, the applicant need only make one application for permission.   https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part-83-writs-and-warrants-general-provisions   Andy
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    • enforcement by sheriff's is a no-nonsense approach. No excuses. No warnings. And the cost of enforcement are typically £2,000 to be borne by the defendant
    • I don't know if they can be combined and it is an interesting question because if we could eventually combined. judgements to a sum of greater than £600 then you could put the sheriff's in and that's where you are in for some very serious enforcement apart from that, my preference would be for separate enforcement so that you have a sort of drip drip death by a thousand cuts approach   After all it's not really about the money. It's really about waking them up and giving them a good shake
    • I have been in touch with Sunderland County Court- Virgin have ignored two demand letters from and the third and final one has been sent(seems rather generous of them to give them three chances...) If there is no reply,bailiffs will be sent in on 3 February.   The second claim will become due on 6 February-if I get a judgment on that I will get the bailiffs straight onto that one too. Do you know if the court  can combine the judgments into one amount for the bailiffs or if they have to be executed separately?
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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Hermes Lost Returns - Sportsshoes.com @sportsshoes_com


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Okay. So far as I understand it you have attempted to make a claim against Hermes and they have knocked you back on the basis that the items were not insured.

I suggest

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

 

Letter of Claim – Reference Number XXX

 

 

on XXX date I used your service to return a pair of shoes to XXX retailer in XXX part of the country under your reference number XXX.

As you already know, the item was not delivered and in fact it was reported by the retailer that they had discovered part of the discarded packaging which indicates very strongly that the item has been stolen whilst in your care.

The value of the shoes was £XXX.

If I do not receive reimbursement in full of the sum within 14 days then I shall sue you in the County Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

 

 

If you are happy with this then send it off. If there is something missing then let us know. I suggest very strongly that you don't send anything off or click anything off without passing it by us first.

If you make this threat then it's not a bluff. It means that on day 15 you will click off the claim. Don't imagine that Hermes will respond with the money.

In the intervening 14 days, make sure that you have read up quite a lot of the Hermes threads on the sub-forum so that you understand the arguments – especially around their principal basis of the defence which will be that you didn't take out any insurance. They will suggest that you "chose" not to take insurance.

Make sure you understand the ripostes to this argument and also that you are familiar with the unfair terms provisions in the consumer rights act and the duty of the judge to begin an examination of the fairness of the contractual terms under the judge's own initiative.

Register on the moneyclaim County Court website and start preparing your claim. You can save your work as you go. Post your proposed particulars of claim here for us to see – but keep it minimal.

On day 15, click off the claim.

Make sure that you have read the discussions on the sub- forum about mediation. The complicity of the mediator in Hermes attempt to reduce your claim and to get you to compromise on your rights – and how you should deal with that pressure – assuming that you are prepared to face them out (which includes a risk, of course, that the mediation might fail and you will go to a hearing where your arguments about insurance will be tested).
Of course if it does go to a hearing and then the issue of insurance is aired and examined by the judge, then it is Hermes which will face the greater risk because if they lose on that point that that will be the beginning of the end of their insurance trick which effectively gets their customers to insure against the courier's own negligence.

Make sure you understand also the importance of being able to show the judge that you didn't have any option because all courier companies operate the same insurance cover trick – getting their customers to insure against the company's own negligence or criminality. It will be important to show the judge that you didn't have any option. That they all play the same game.

So send the letter, register as suggested. Read all the arguments – and then come back here with any questions

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You may as well – but it's not very important. As long as it gets through the door and you have evidence that it was sent, that's the important thing.

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Is the following OK? Should I also, or separately, say I'm not accepting their offer of the £50. Do I not need to include anything about them failing their duty under the Act to have care and skill ...

Quote


Letter of Claim – Reference number xxxxx

 

On 10 September 2020 I used your service to return a parcel of three pairs of shoes to Sportsshoes.com retailer in West Yorkshire under your reference number xxxxx (collection receipt xxxx).

As you already know, the item was not delivered to the intended recipient. In fact, it was reported to you on 11 September 2020 that discarded packaging from this parcel was discovered a few miles from the collection address. Clearly the item was stolen whilst in your care.

The value of the shoes was £229.47

If I do not receive reimbursement in full of the sum within 14 days then I shall sue you in the County Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

 

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I've made an edit.

Note don't refer to the offer they made. Let them bring that up. No need to refer to the driver. They can bring that up or if it's relevant at all you can bring it up later.

Quite frankly the identity of the driver is their problem it's not yours.

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yes ok thanks, not sure 'Clearly' is accurate, I know it's highly likely but I dont think the evidence per se is sufficient there are other explanations however vacuous. I'd prefer to say theft is indicated 

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When things are being ramped up to this level of litigation – then you need to be unambiguous and unequivocal.

However it's your letter and you must put whatever you feel comfortable with.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi there, I sent the letter of claim and there's a week til the 14 days are up. I've registered on MCOL and drafted the particulars of claim, following the style used in other similar cases. It's probably too wordy for you but let me know what you think!

 

The claimant used the defendant courier company to return a parcel to an online retailer in the UK, Tracking Number xxxxxxxxx. Less than 24 hours after courier collection, discarded packaging from the parcel was discovered a few miles from the collection address. This clearly shows the courier service did not use reasonable care and skill and is in breach of contract. The defendant company admits they lost the parcel but refuses to refund the full value of the parcel contents, which was £229.47. The delivery fee was £2.94. The claimant claims full reimbursement of £232.41.

 

Many thanks

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I feel that this might be slightly more to the point

Quote

The claimant used the defendant courier company to send a parcel to an address in XXX town, tracking number XXX. The parcel was collected by the defendant but never arrived at its destination although discarded packaging was discovered a few miles from the collection address. The parcel has been lost by reason of the defendant's negligence and/or criminality of an employee of the defendant and they are in breach of contract. The parcel contained shoes valued and at £229.47 p. Plus delivery fee – £2.94. The defendant has refused to reimburse the claimant.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi there and happy new year..

 

Hermes have now submitted a defence and I’ve just received the Directions Questionnaire.

Brief reminder of the situation …

·       I returned 2 parcels to Sportshoes, using Hermes courier collection, each about £230.

·       The next day discarded packaging was found a few miles from my address

·       I contacted Hermes immediately

·       Parcels never arrived at destination and Hermes agreed to pay me max compensation £50 each

·       You suggested putting in county court claim for one parcel to start with (as identified by discarded packaging)

 

My particulars of claim

The claimant used the defendant courier company to send a parcel to an address in Shipley, West Yorkshire, tracking number xxx The parcel was collected by the defendant but never arrived at its destination and discarded packaging was discovered a few miles from the collection address. This clearly shows the defendant lost the parcel through negligence and/or criminality of an employee and they are in breach of contract. The parcel contained shoes valued at £229.47, plus delivery fee of £2.94. The defendant has refused to reimburse the claimant

 

The defence is ‘interesting’…

(a)  they dispute the full amount, even though they have already admitted liability and offered me the compensation they say I am owed (£50)

(b)  they say I did not have a contract with them but with the retailer, even though the link on Sportshoes website goes to MyHermes.uk, I paid Hermes the delivery fee, and accepted their terms and conditions which includes the ‘contract’

So I’m about to complete the directions questionnaire.

 

I will agree to go to mediation, is there anything else I need to do/bear in mind at the moment? Many thanks!

 

Hermes Defence.pdf

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Nothing urgent. Just go ahead and agree to mediation if that's what you are happy to do.

The defence is fairly predictable – I notice that they are saying that they put the parcel into the hands of a "self-employed courier" – so already, they are betraying their own staff and getting ready to hang someone out to dry. Bravo Hermes.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Mediation set for 3 Feb. 

 

I will of course spend some time before then pulling together my evidence and arguments.

 

Their defence was odd (I thought) in that they defended the whole amount and said I didn't have a contract with them, even though they'd already accepted liability and offered me compensation. So just wondering whether the various issues come into play or whether mediation is really just agreeing deal or no deal.

 

Also need your advice on when and how to introduce my '2nd potential claim chip' ... they lost another parcel worth approx the same amount at the same time.

 

Thanks in advance

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Well they are trying to say that the supplier has the contract with them – which is correct. However, when you read around, have a look at the times that they try to say that the customers contract is with Packlink and so therefore they, Hermes, are not involved and should not be sued.

We what we have to say about the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act – and that gives you your answer to that particular aspect.

In terms of the second parcel, I would just keep mum about it for the moment. If it is settled at mediation and the mediator announces to you that there is an agreement. Then it might be the time to say that's great the agreement is confirmed (make sure that that is clear) and then ask the mediator to tell Hermes that there is the issue of a second parcel which you have litigated yet that which you will be doing very soon. You can tell the mediator they are not looking for an answer on that right now that Hermes should be aware that you will be going down exactly the same route.

However, get this one sorted out first of all. If it doesn't get sorted out at mediation then obviously we will have to look at it – but even then, I would say simply litigate on one parcel at a time. If it actually goes to court for a parcel and they lose then I think it would be very easy to bring the action for the second parcel – or even simply to get them to pay up because they will know, by that time, that you are serious

 

Read around and then let us know what questions you have

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