no credit agreement and ppi miselling

[jamesbond]

my mum had a loan with nastywest for £12000...her bank charges got heavy on the account and she was asked to go to see the bank who advised she should replace the loan to clear a £720 o/d position which she did. they then sold her ppi which she questioned and was told the loan would unlikely be sanctioned without it.any way to cut a long story short the £720 to clear the o/draught made up from unlawful charges ended up costing a further £8000 with the included ppi.

she paid the loan as agreed and went along with her business.

i then looked at her financial position as she was due to retire shortly and came acroos the loan while i was attempting to address the £4000 worth of bank charges i was trying to claim to clear her financial position up a little. in the course of that we sent a subject access request and no loan agreement was provided. i raised the point with the bank that this loan was missold including the ppi which was coerced upon her and due to a pre exsisiting medical condition is very little use any way. they fobbed her off with tough but its in your interest to keep it, so dont cash it in.

we then sent a cca request in september, but again no agreement. we complained again and after an investigation by the bank was told that due to the passage of time we are unable to locate the agreement but look forward to your continued cooperation with regard to repayment of your outstanding liability.

do i now take this whole argument of miselling of ppi to the ombudsman or do i go another route due to not supplying the agreement.

it is one hell of a mess, as i have started proceedings against them for £4000 of charges.

[natwesttookmymoney]

OK - I'm not even going to attempt this tonight, after a couple of sweet sherries.

 

Now that I have subscribed to your thread, anything that's added will be e-mailed to me. So do's a favour and post something back up, then it will appear in my inbox tomorrow.

Westy

[jamesbond]

no probs westy, here it is...any advice appreciated..007

[jamesbond]

i have been reading up on the ombudsmans guidelines, and accordingly it is looked upon very unfavourably if the banks are seen to profiteer by selling services that do not help if someone is shown to be having financial difficulties in repaying their exsisting commitments. i think that the above is a perfect example of this, and as this debt is without doubt open to question in many avenues should i proceed down the ombudsmans route as i would rather have this matter remedied in a correct and final manner, or persue the non compliance route? i am holding back on service of the secnd lba for charges until i am able to make a decision on what course to follow. any ideas?

[Guest Battleaxe]

It will take the FO six months to do anything and this is what the banks count on. the FO is the major banks sanctioning their own actions. You would be better off reporting the whole thing to the Office of Fair Trading. they love these things. you can still claim while the OFT are investigating. the bank get a bit more co-operative with you, if they know the OFT are on their heels. You just drop them a line and enclose a copy of your complaint to the OFT.

[jamesbond]

thanks for that info..should i do both the oft and the ombudsman? will i get the desired results as if i put it into court for misselling of the ppi and non production of the agreement?

[Guest Battleaxe]

Put your submission to the OFT. just outline why you think the PPI was misold, also any letters from the bank regarding this situation.

 

The Court wont be interested in a mis-sold PPI at this time or a missing loan agreement. This is a seperate issue to the recovery of the unlawful charges.

 

You will have to get a definitive answer from the bank. Let the OFT do the work for you regarding the PPI. Mention to the OFT that a loan agreement cannot be located. Don't try to short cut anything for the sake of getting the money quickly.

 

You can fill your complaint in on line. if you have documentation supporting your comlaint it will help the investigation.

 

Get on with claiming your charges back and then be guided by what the OFT tells you. You might find the bank will make you an offer once the OFT knocks on their door.

 

Give the Ombudsman a miss. About as useful as tits on a bull (my opinion).

[natwesttookmymoney]

Hi, JB

 

Sorry I didn't get back earlier but Battleaxe looks like she's done pretty good!

 

However, it's also worth having a look at this newsletter from the Financial Ombudsman. It's a general point but shows the way the wind is blowing. It's worth quoting, in correspondence, at least.

 

Financial Ombudsman News

 

I'm also of the opinion that any agreement that doesn't have the paperwork cannot establish the basis of contract and, if it's regulated under the Consumer Credit Act, it's unenforceable. But don't, whatever you do, take my word for it. There's another, much more comprehensive thread about loans. Find it here (Loan Company Cannot Supply The Original Agreement ). You'll have to pick your way through the people who are just trying to wriggle out of agreements but there's a lot of useful info, too.

 

Best wishes

 

Westy

[jamesbond]

thanks for the replies westy and battleaxe...can the oft stand in and enforce the bank to rectify this situation? i am aware the ombudsman can order some sort of retribution, but was only aware that the oft would take action against the bank and not remedy the problem we have?

i have not seen anything on this site about the oft assisting the debtor in these issues? any further help would be brill...thanks to you both loads....007

[natwesttookmymoney]

I'm not an expert on this (I'm not an expert on much, to be frank, though I do talk a lot) but it looks like mis-selling. There has been something about mis-selling of loan protection insurance and I think the OFT may have issued something about it. Have a look at their website, which you can reach through the BO's site.

It COULD be something the Banking Ombudsman (BO) could look at and take action on, as its remit is specifically: has the bank followed its procedures properly?

However, Hell might freeze over before you get a satisfactory outcome. Or any outcome at all.

The OFT may be the better route.

You could also consider making a claim to recover the ppi (and interest charged on it) on the grounds that it was an unfair contract term: your mother was obliged to take it as part of the loan (standard terms), even though it was worthless and could never be claimed on, because of your mother's pre-existing conditions -which they were aware of at the time. And just a profit generator for the bank.

What does anyone else think?

Westy

[Guest Battleaxe]

Westy and James Bond,

 

i agree there might be a case for mis-selling, but I would definitely let the OFT investigate it first. once you get the OFT's decision, then go to the FO with it, because it will then be specific; The Bank did not follow guidelines.

 

The OFT does have some clout and the minute the bank knows the OFT is investigating you will be surprised how the bank reacts.

In my case I got a letter of apology, but was ungracious enough not to accept it and kept digging away and keeping the pressure on the Bank, sending it a copy of every letter to the OFT, so they know a case is being built against them and I was being transparent. others might argue I was mounting psychological warfare against the bank, but this is what they ahave been doing to us for all these years.

 

Slowly slowly catchee monkey and this is what you are going to have to do.

 

The only Law I know is Law 303 (military joke).

[natwesttookmymoney]

No disagreement that the OFT has teeth and statutory power but it seems to be taking a while to use them - viz, no definitive pronouncement on bank charges yet, 8 months after the credit card report.

I would use every opportunity there is. It may even be worth approaching the CAB or getting half an hour's free time from a specialist solicitor, if you have one nearby.

In the longer term, there's always publicity, too. Bank forces sick woman to take ppi? That will go down well.

Westy

[jamesbond]

hi and a big thanks to you both for the assistance...mum has paid about 11000 off the account so she has paid nearly all the original loan back and the outstanding balance is made up mostly from ppi and interest added as a result of this misselling of loan and ppi. the ombudsmans guidelines clealy state that when a problem with repayment occurs that they should not sell further products to the debtor that would in any way profiteer the bank and cause detriment to the consumer..this has clearly happened in this case with out the ppi misselling and no loan agreement being produced to add to the fire. we have sent a letter disagreeing with the banks findings on these matters which to be honest read better than any thing enid blyton could have penned, it was little more than fiction what the response was. i think i will correlate all the information together and launch the complaint to the oft as you said this week and informed the bank in my letter that i would be contacting the fo if a satisfactory resolve to my complaint is not received within 14 days.

this will give the oft time to start addressing the matter and also notify the bank that i intend to go to the ombudsman...this leaves all avenues open for further action...what do you think, is that ok?

[Guest Battleaxe]

jamesbond,

 

You have nothing lose. get your complaint into the OFT and sit back

[jamesbond]

thanks battleaxe....wil compile the complaint and forward to the oft and will let all know what transpires....007:)

[jamesbond]

hi again...i sent the nasty west a letter informing them i intend to file a complaint with the ombudsman and oft in 14 days from receipt if not resolved to my satisfaction..and stopping payments to the account....i today received a letter back stating they are again investigating the matter and will reply in the usual 10 days malarky...they have already investigated it once?..do i just proceed with my actions? 007

[jamesbond]

well now its been given to a collection agency who insist on phoning for the full balance...oh dear me...some what naughty given they are not in possesion of an agreement?..where to now...any suggestions welcome!!!

[jamesbond]

update......a letter was sent to the dca informing them of the full facts and the natwests failure to supply agreement......the dca replied that they were not aware of any of this and investigated accordingly with the nw.....received a letter back apologising and informed me they had returned the file back to the nw .....

[jamesbond]

another update with some good news !!!! the natwest sent me a letter this week after my complaints letters to all and sundry. they informed me that the service i had received from them was not up to the standards expected from this bank and they will be making no more attempts to reclaim the debt and have removed all the history from the credit files regarding this debt....will check it out soon and let you all know...

007

[jamesbond]

well my mum checked her credit file today and believe it or not the judgement is still there with about 8 weeks until the 6 year marker removes it..it isnt marked as settled, and as the letter we are in possesion of from the natwest clearly states we will not attempt to claim this money and we will remove all entries from the credit register. that was in 2007!! and its still ther showing 8000 plus outstanding..should i write and request it removed immediately, or do we have a claim agaist them for inappropiate information ?..

[jamesbond]

this thread here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?325923-Default-Never-Removed-and-a-year-down-the-line.

this chap has just claimed 500 comp for his default still being on 12 months later...do you think we have a claim for comp when the default is still on nearly 6 years later? the letter i have from 2007 clearly says the bank has ordered removal of the entry from my credit files and will no longer attempt to collect any money..perhaps bank fodder can tell us how to proceed..