NSGL/QDR PCN claimform - residential - Century Wharf, Cardiff, CF10 5NP - *** Claim Dismissed***

[Cardiff Devil]

Top of the morning to you all.

 

I had a letter through last night from the claimants solicitors.  Attached was a "claimant's statement of costs", where they've listed under Counsel's fees an unnamed "LPC Law Agent", charging a £200 fee for the hearing, plus £50 under court fees, with the description "Fixed legal costs upon issue".  

 

Am I right in thinking that this is just a bluff tactic, and that legal costs are capped at small claims so they can't scare people off with vastly overinflated legal bills?

 

Cheers

CD

[honeybee13]

It sounds high and could well be a scare tactic, CD. It might be worth posting up the costs schedule minus any of your personal info, so we can make sure.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

Does look like a scare, they know they are on shaky ground with Residential parking, given there are decided cases that illustrate Occupier's usually have a supremacy of Conttact unless there is something specific in any lease or Tenancy agreement.

[AndyOrch]

Quote

Counsel's fees an unnamed "LPC Law Agent", charging a £200 fee for the hearing, plus £50 under court fees, with the description "Fixed legal costs upon issue".  

 

The standard hearing fee for claims up to £300 is £25.00..so the £200 will be his fee for attending the hearing....the rest of the fees should be as listed on the N1 court claim

 

Andy.

 

 

.

[Cardiff Devil]

That's what I thought.  Cheers all.

 

I've attached a redacted copy here as HB suggested for your perusal.  

 

Cheers

CD

Statement_of_Costs_Redacted.pdf

[AndyOrch]

PART 27 - THE SMALL CLAIMS TRACK - Civil Procedure Rules

WWW.JUSTICE.GOV.UK

 

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14

 

[Cardiff Devil]

Cheers Andy

 

I'm not a lawyer but as I'm reading it, part 27.14 (2) basically means that the costs are fixed, and they can't claim for hundreds of pounds of extras, even if they did win?  Unless they could prove that I've acted unreasonably, although since I'm the defendant and not the one that brought this action before the court, I'm not sure how that could be the case.

 

If I've got that totally arse about face, then apologies.

 

Cheers

CD

[FTMDave]

You're spot on with everything CD.

[Cardiff Devil]

Thanks Dave

 

Makes me feel better about the whole thing.  Just want to get it all over and done with now.

 

Cheers

CD

 

 

[Cardiff Devil]

Afternoon all.

 

Case won.  Went through all the points I raised but the bit that seemed to swing it for me was the fact that once you drive from the outdoor areas into the underground parking garage, which is protected by an electronic gate no signage is visible inside, so it was held that they couldn't rely on the signage outside to apply everywhere, since they were classed as two separate areas.

 

Claimant's overinflated claim for costs was dismissed, and they have to pay me a half day's lost wages (£45) within 21 days.  I did ask whether I could claim back the costs of all the printing and postage of evidence packs etc but unfortunately not.  That's the cost of litigation apparently.  

 

I do have another case pending from them for the other failed POPLA appeal.  I asked the judge if he could throw that one out but he said he couldn't, but given the lack of the signage on site, the parking company would need to have a "long think" about whether they choose to pursue this other case any further.  I'll let you know if they do.

 

Thanks, as always for everyone's help with this. 

CD

[honeybee13]

Well done and thank you for letting us know. I'll amend your thread title.

 

HB

[brassnecked]

Excellent If they did try it on your victory would be part of your evidence for the subsequent case if they fancy another tolchocking by a DJ.

[lookinforinfo]

That was a great result for you. Plus it gives you a lot more confidence should there be a second case.  Normally you would expect a parking company to walk away and try someone else. But that would be to underestimate the stupidity and greed of parking companies.

 

Should there be a next time make sure you are aware that litigants in person are allowed to claim for their work done in research not just for a lost days wages, travel and parking.

 

And if there is a next time you could also add a penalty charge since their case would be  a waste of the Court's time and putting you under unnecessary pressure.

 

Good job and thanks for coming back and telling us the result.

 

You must be relieved and happy.

[dx100uk]

??dunno about a defendant adding a penalty charge against a claimant for wasting court time...thats no a defendants job...

 

just dont give them the upper hand by doing something stupid by moving within 6yrs and not telling them.

[Cardiff Devil]

Thanks all.

 

I'm now aware that a litigant in person can submit a costs order for the time spent and costs incurred in dealing with this issue, seems a bit lop-sided that only solicitors can claim costs when small claims is intended for Average Joe to be able to take action without incurring big legal costs.

 

Their representative kept on and on that PE vs Beavis made their charges legit.  My response was that I don't see how this case can give the green light to parking operators to claim arbitrary invented sums that go straight into their profits, and that the "commercial justification" was a huge conflict of interest.  My response was "what's stopping me putting a sign up at the end of my driveway saying every visitor has to be wearing a blue hat, and if you don't then you owe me £50".  It was moot anyway as they hadn't even included a copy of the Beavis judgement in their evidence pack.  

 

Rest assured that if they are stupid enough to carry on pursuing this other case, then I'll be submitting a schedule for costs in advance.  To be honest I half expected them to bottle it and back out before this hearing.  Be interesting to see if they fancy trying it again.

 

Thanks again

CD

[AndyOrch]

A bit late now to be honest after the event..if you didn't request costs pre hearing and at the hearing as defendant its very unlikely a court will entertain them now.

 

Put it behind you and move on.

 

Andy

[Cardiff Devil]

Hi Andy

 

No, I know I can't claim them now, but this particular parking company is currently pursuing a second claim against me.  This hasn't reached the witness statement part yet but if for some inexplicable reason they decide they want to double down and take this one to a hearing after being roundly beaten yesterday, I'll be sure to claim all my costs this time around.

 

Cheers

CD

[AndyOrch]

Then make sure you conclude your statement with a request for costs pursuant to CPR 27 14. (2)

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.14

 

[Cardiff Devil]

I will be sure to do that, if it gets that far.  Cheers Andy

 

Thanks

CD

[honeybee13]

I meant to say this yesterday, CD after your win. Please consider making a donation if you're able to, so we can be here to help people in the future.

 

HB

[FTMDave]

I'm behind with threads due to being on holiday ...

 

... but belated congratulations on your victory! 

[Cardiff Devil]

Thanks Dave 

 

HB:  As soon as the payment from the PPC arrives I'll be sure to make a donation.  There's something very satisfying about a parking company's money going to support a site like this. 

 

Cheers

CD