Jump to content


Hermes and Packlink - **Won**


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 176 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Last month I've submitted a claim with moneyclaim against Hermes.

The usual story. Hermes lost the parcel. I was unable to get in touch with packlink. Sent multiple emails. Every time I got the same automated response:

To receive support on a shipment purchased through Packlink, you must provide the Packlink reference number. It is an alphanumeric reference that always begins with UN, for example UN2019COM0000009902, that can be found in the shipment confirmation page, and is also emailed to you.

Of course I did provide the right number but every time received the same message, as no one actually wanted to help.

The parcel was insured for the full amount.

 

Here's how Hermes responded:

13. The first sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted insofar as the Claimant entered into a Contract with Packlink, however the Claimant should claim any losses from Packlink with whom he entered into a contract. 14. The second sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted insofar as the Defendant acts as a subcontractor for Packlink. 15. The third to fifth sentences of the Particulars of Claim is denied. No contractual relationship 16. There is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant. 17. The Claimant entered into a contract with Packlink

Also:

They’ve suggested you both use the free mediation service.

Should I proceed with the claim?
 

If the timeline here is important here's an overview.

Nov 2019 - parcel got lost

Jan 2020 - trying to submit a claim with packlink, getting nowhere

Mar 2020 - sent letter before action (both emails and post) to Hermes

Oct 2020 - money claim court claim submitted

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please can you post up your claim in pdf format.

Also the Hermes defence

Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a lot of personal data in both. Any specific section?

Here's the Hermes defence.

Quote

2.1. 1. If any part of the Particulars of Claim are not expressly admitted or denied below, such parts are denied by the Defendant entirely.

2.2. 2. The Defendant serves this Defence subject to the following objection to the manner in which this claim is brought. The Particulars of Claim fail to provide details about any contractual relationship which is alleged to exist between the Claimant and the Defendant.

2.3. Background

2.4. 3. The Defendant is and was at all material times a company limited by shares in the business of providing delivery services on a business to business, business to consumer and consumer to consumer basis.

2.5. 4. In addition to providing delivery service to its own customers, the Defendant also works as a subcontractor to provide delivery services to customers of PACKLINK Shipping S.L (“Packlink”) who are a company registered in, Spain with the number CIF B83357863 whose registered address

 

OCON9B

For further details of the courts www.gov.uk/find-court-tribunal © Crown copyright Page 1 of 7

OCON9B

For further details of the courts www.gov.uk/find-court-tribunal © Crown copyright Page 2 of 7

is Calle Amaltea, 9 28045 Madrid pursuant to a pre-existing commercial agreement to carry out delivery services.

2.6. 5. Packlink provides delivery services to users of the online auction site /retail site ‘eBay.co.uk’. eBay.co.uk users can opt to use the Defendant’s delivery services via Packlink. This means that the Defendant does not have any contractual relationship with Packlink ‘s customers. They, as is the case with the Claimant, contract solely with Packlink.

2.7. 6. As there is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant, the Defendant only has limited (tracking) information about the parcel.

2.8. 7. The tracking information shows that on or around 29 November 2020, the sent the parcel via one of the Defendant’s ParcelShops.

2.9. 8. The last tracking point for the Parcel was on 30 November 2020 at the Parcelshop. There are no further tracking points after this date and therefore the Defendant accepts that the Parcel is lost.

2.10. The Claim Value

2.11. 9. The Claimant seeks to recover £124.63.

2.12. 10. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the value of the claim.

2.13. The Defence

2.14. 11. The Defendant denies that it is liable to pay the Claimant the damages claimed for breach of contract and/or negligence.

2.15. 12. This Defence is a response to the Particulars of Claim which are set out in the ‘Particulars of Claim’ on page 2 of the claim form.

2.16. Claim Form – Particulars of Claim

2.17. 13. The first sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted insofar as the Claimant entered into a Contract with Packlink, however the Claimant should claim any losses from Packlink with whom he entered into a contract.

2.18. 14. The second sentence of the Particulars of Claim is admitted insofar as the Defendant acts as a subcontractor for Packlink.

2.19. 15. The third to fifth sentences of the Particulars of Claim is denied. 2.20. No contractual relationship
2.21. 16. There is no contract between the Claimant and the Defendant. 2.22. 17. The Claimant entered into a contract with Packlink.

2.23. 18. This was made very clear during the order process.
2.24. 19. The Claimant should desists with this claim and contact Packlink. 2.25. Claim for compensation
2.26. 20. The Claimant claims £124.48.

Claim number: 164MC735

2.27. 21. As explained above, it is denied that the Defendant owes the Claimant £124.48.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Redact it and post it up.

 

It's not worth playing games. We don't have the time or the resources

Link to post
Share on other sites

However I can tell you that your case is very poorly pleaded and you don't even present a cause of action. In other words you don't even say that there has been a contract at all between you and Hermes or give any indication of the basis upon which you are claiming the right to bring an action as a third-party.

I haven't managed to look at the defence and I will look at it later and respond.

 

Although you haven't used this forum very much, you have been a member of the forum for over 10-years and frankly it would have helped us all if you had come here before you started taking this action and we could have done it very effectively.

 

luckily when you are dealing with Hermes you are dealing with idiots and this may save you. I will have to have a closer look later

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

As is usual with Hermes, they have opted for mediation.

The defence is the usual half-hearted defence – mainly predicated on the fact that your contract was with Packlink and not with them. Of course they are fully aware of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and that you enjoy full contractual rights because you are a beneficiary of the contract.

It is disingenuous of them not to admit this in their defence and in fact they are wasting the court's time. Because they know of this act and the effect on them, I would say that this statement of truth should not have been signed and maybe this is an issue which should be raised to the mediator.

They ask you to prove the value of the item you sent. You haven't told us what the item is. You haven't even told the court what it is in your claim papers. Maybe you can tell us now – and also are you able to prove the value of it? This will be important.

In your first post you ask if you should proceed with the claim. If you have any doubt then why did you begin the claim to start with?

Have you read around the threads on this sub- forum involving Hermes? I suggest that you start putting some time in and reading them and particularly understanding what happens at mediation and the way that the mediator will join with Hermes in an attempt to get you to reduce the amount of money that you are prepared to accept.

There is actually no reason for you to back down or to give a single penny away. You should make this clear to the mediator at the outset. You can be certain that the mediator will not be pleased – I don't know if they are in a commission or something but frankly they exceed their role by trying to persuade you to compromise. The mediator is really simply there to make a communication bridge between the two of you.

So the next step is that you will receive directions questionnaire and it is this point that you will have to decide whether or not you want to continue. If you do continue then you will have to pay a fee. Frankly I think you should pay it because your chances of success are excellent.

I think that we may even help you to produce a reply to the defence so that both the mediator and the court can see a few of the points that need to be raised. This will include the fact that Hermes seems routinely to waste the court's time in order to deny their customers their rights and to raise spurious defences such as – no contract even though they know that their clients have third party rights. I would say that signing a statement of truth in support of that kind defence is completely against the spirit and really is contemptuous of the whole procedure.

Please start reading round the Hermes threads here. I'm sorry to say but it is clear that you don't know what you're doing. It hasn't helped you that this problem emerged in 2019 and you have taken all this time to issue a claim – including sending a letter of claim several months ago which you then failed to follow up. You are doing nothing to establish any credibility in the eyes of Hermes and frankly they probably think that you are another customer who rants on a little bit but in reality is a pushover.

Once again I have to say that you've been here since 2007 and yet clearly you haven't used this forum to read up on the best way to do it or to ask us our advice. Big fail.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Appreciate the help. 

My long reply to your post got removed after a "site not secure" warning.

I will keep it short. I think you've been a bit harsh on me but I agree with some of your points.

Btw I've registered in 2007 that came as surprise to me as I don't even recall signing up.


Here's an update:

There's a Telephone Mediation scheduled for Wednesday next week.

 

Quote

For mediation to be successful, you would need to be willing to negotiate on the amount of the claim and have a degree of flexibility

The claim is already for relatively small amount ~£100, should I still be prepared to lower that amount? 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did you do get that quote from about needing to be flexible in the mediation process?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well it's up to you if you want to give some of your money away. We would recommend that you stand your ground. There is no legal obligation to give away any of your rights.

Hermes defence is predicated only on the fact that you had no contract with them. The only other aspect of it is that they want you to prove the value of what has been lost.

You must resist any attempt by a mediator to divert you from these points in their defence.

So point number one in their defences that you should be suing Packlink.:
Your answer is simply that under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 you enjoy full contractual rights and you have the statutory right to sue Hermes.
You should emphasise to the mediator that there is no answer to this. You have a statutory right.

The second point is proving the loss:
as long as you have evidence of the value of what has happened – then that's the end of the matter.
Tell the mediator that Hermes does not raise this in their defence and say you are not prepared to discuss it. You want the entire sum claimed plus your costs or else you will go to court.

Tell the mediator that if you go to court then the only point that Hermes are trying to defend on – will be thrown out of the court/blown out of the water because you are relying on the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

Tell the mediator that if Hermes want to go to court on this, then the judge will uphold your third-party rights and you will then make sure that a copy of the judgement is put all over the Internet and that will be the end of Hermes little game using Packlink as their buffer/shield.

It's completely up to you – but I would suggest that there is no reason to back down on anything here.

Hermes are frankly being dishonest by not even referring to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

So the mediation happened yesterday as planned.

It was quick.


1st call simply gave a statement as advised here:

Under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 I enjoy full contractual rights and you have the statutory right to sue Hermes. 

 

2nd call after Mediator spoke with the person representing Hermes:

Apparently quote: "as a gesture of good will" Hermes are willing to pay the full amount without the court fees.

I've rejected the offer.

Here's the moment when the mediator got upset with me saying if I'm not willing to negotiate the mediation is not for me.

As the conversation continued she proposed to ring the other party and ask if they're willing to pay the court fees.

 

Final call:

Hermes will pay the full amount, including fees.

 

I know the amount was relatively small and a lot of people wouldn't bother but here's a proof that you can get your money back with little admin work and support of this forum. 
Thank you BankFodder for the advice here. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you very much indeed for this update – and well done.

Well done on standing your ground – and once again we find that the mediator appears to be complicit with Hermes and wants to get you to compromise on your rights. It's really quite outrageous.

Anyway well done. Hopefully you learnt a lot about the process and if you end up with problems with anybody in the future you will feel confident about dealing with it – and of course we will be here to help you.

Bravo.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • BankFodder changed the title to Hermes and Packlink - **Won**
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...