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Virgin, mystery extra line: 2 judgments for Data Protection breaches - so far!!


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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Letter sent recorded delivery. Today I will be registering on Moneyclaim and start preparing- the last 2 days have been getting the shop shut down for lockdown so now that's dealt with I have plenty m

These are the two incidents from Virgin Chat where their Live chat has informed me of the 'only 3 months' decision.... 15 April was the date they acknowledged receipt of my SAR.   Apparently

Happy news! Cheque for Warrant 2 (£302) has arrived in the post today Now to put in the N445 form to switch addresses for Warrant 1 as well...

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OK here's we are so far-second warrant has been paid and sent for using the 500 Brook Drive address in Reading (that's what's given as their head office).

According to the Warrant Hub, as there's a new warrant out using the Reading address, the existing one can simply be transferred over from the Sunderland one without having to do an N445. 
And finally Virgin have sent over files with a password. It looks like there's more in here- there's at least 9 calls and they all seem to be complete, so I shall peruse them to see what's there and just as importantly what's missing.

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It will be especially amusing if the file contains references to your letter of claim, the claim papers and even to the judgement.

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There were three points that leapt out from what they've sent.

 

One is that the original offer WAS changed by them-it was £500 plus removal of all data,closure of all accounts and the handset costs to be removed-this was then changed to £500 and I would still be responsible for the account and the cost of the handset which was why I refused it. Interestingly I was told regardless of my decision, the information for the Financial Ombdusman would be sent to me-another thing that has failed to materialize

 

Two is that they state categorically 'we have a signed contract' and yet there is still no sign at all of the one piece of paper that would prove their case for them. I'm putting it in the same category as Nessie and the Yeti in terms of existence..

 

Three is that the ADR they told me I would be sent in 2-3 business days has now reached 30 days without any sign of it- are there any penalties for failing to supply this? And whilst there was no mention of the claims or judgments, they did state in the chat logs that I could not take legal action until I had received the ADR. It's almost a pity that I've gone ahead and done that.

 

 

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Please excuse me for getting confused again. There are so many strands to this that I need to clarify where we are on your most recent post.

I understand that the documents you received in response to your most recent SAR which refers to the mysterious phone number/handset – is this correct?

I hadn't realised that there was an original offer of £500 compensation from them as well as their undertaking to remove all data, to close all accounts and to remove handset costs.
I understand from you now that they changed this is too much more limited offer.
Had you actually accepted the first offer? Is there evidence of this?

In your point number – three – you say that an ADR would be sent to you in only a few business days. What was this ADR? If you've mentioned this before then I'd missed it. On what basis do they suggest that you wouldn't be permitted to take legal action without having "received" the ADR. What you mean by having received the ADR? Normally one submits oneself to an ADR process.

Of course it's very interesting that they refer to a signed contract – and yet they have not disclosed to you. This is important. In what form has this been stated. Is it simply a record of a telephone conversation? Or is this actually some internal memorandum?

I don't understand the relevance of expecting to be sent information for the financial ombudsman. I don't see what the FOS has got to do with it anyway. The FOS doesn't regulate this sector.

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Separating out the strands:

 

*CLAIM 1-Moneyclaim for £302. submitted 21/11-judgment obtained 15/12-warrant executed 18/1

*CLAIM 2-Moneyclaim for £302. submitted 15/1-judgment obtained 6/2-warrant executed 23/2

*CLAIM 3-letter before claim sent on 11/2 demanding £620 compensation and full data files as mentioned in post 131-14 days to reply-that deadline expires tomorrow.

 

*SAR for phantom 2nd line sent 11/1- currently checking to see what is in the files as it appears that the data for the two numbers has been interlinked.

 

*The original offer of £500 compensation was referred to in posts 44 and 45- it began as £250 which I rejected, then went up to £500. This included the cost of the handset,the payments already paid and court costs.There was no mention of compensation or that my credit files would be made good so I stated I would not accept it until these were concluded.That offer was then changed to £500 including the cost of the handset,the payments already paid and court costs, but from that I would have to pay back the cost of the handset and the payments already paid.

 

*After I rejected this offer,I was told I would be able to take my complaint to the FOS(which I have in writing) and that they would send an ADR form which would arrive in 2-3 business days. This was on 24/1 so we are now at 30 days later. This was mentioned in post 115 and I also have it in the chat logs. Their rationale seems to be that until I complete that form, I have not gone through their internal complaints procedure which I must do before I can take legal action

 

*I have multiple incidences-in chat logs,letters-of Virgin stating categorically 'We have a signed agreement'.

 

 

 

 

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Thank you.

In respect of the two warrants – you say they have been executed – but in fact they have been issued and the execution still has to happen. Yes?

In respect of the final SAR - which refers to the specific mystery handset, the disclosure you have just received apparently refers to that and so far seems to be incomplete. – Yes?

In respect of the compensation offer, I understand that it was only an offer and was never accepted. For some reason other in your previous post I thought that you and they had reached an agreement on it and that they had then reneged. That would have been excellent but I think I misunderstood.

I'm rather surprised that they said you should should take your complaint to the FOS. Surely they meant the communications ombudsman. And yes, to take your case to an ombudsman you would have had to go through their complaints procedure first which gives them up to 8 weeks to provide you with a final response and to which if you object, you can then escalate it to an ombudsman – but I'm sure not the FOS in this case because we are not talking about a financially regulated firm.

There are repeated references to the existence of a signed agreement is extremely important because the fact that they are referred to and not included it is pretty good evidence that the disclosure file is incomplete – at least in that respect. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if there was no signed agreement and that they were simply saying that to you by way of their winning argument.

Whatever, the most important thing is that it is reasonable for you to suppose that the disclosure is incomplete.

Are you able to identify other areas in which the disclosure is incomplete?



 

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The warrants have been issued, they still have not actually been carried out.

The disclosure of the SAR appears to refers to both numbers including the mystery handset and is incomplete.
 

I did receive this email today from Virgin-not sure what they're trying to say here- will the data be erased from credit reports?will the outstanding amount they claim is due be erased?will all details about this second handset be erased?

And I didn't actually request them to erase my data-I informed them as I was no longer their customer,they did not have the right to process it without my consent.

 

Thanks for getting in touch with us about your Data Subject Rights request, which we received on <17/02/2021>.

Your data privacy is something we take seriously, and our team are here to help.

You asked us to erase your data. We’ll erase everything we can however there is some data we must keep for regulatory or legal reasons (e.g. financial obligations), even once you’ve left us. This will only be retained by Virgin Media for the minimum period required.

We’ll no longer contact you unless we’re legally obliged to do so. This may take up to 28 days to come into effect.

 

 

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I don't think the email is a reply to your specific request at all or even written by a human being. Reads to me like a standard template response generated by AI to acknowledge receipt of SARs.

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I think this needs to be settled in a court of law and I don't think any other method is at all acceptable.

It needs to be open, transparent and beyond doubt.

 

As you have had a possible disclosure I think it is reasonable to to write them and inform them  the disclosure they have made is incomplete and so therefore they are still in breach of their strategy obligations. that you are extending your time before you issue proceedings buy a further 7-days but after that you will definitely be issuing proceedings and there won't be any further discussion.

I think you have to take this approach in order to show the judge that you have been doing everything you can to be reasonable and to be co-operative even though they have failed in their duty.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Did you send the note giving them the extension of time? When does the extension expire/date for issue of claim?

I see that this thread started on 25 October. I have to say that when it started I thought it was going to be a quick fix and hadn't bargained for virgin's ineptitude which has certainly made it a lot more interesting but I'm hoping that March is going to be the month that it will finally all get sorted out.

Surely someone responsible within Virgin has got to start taking a look and understanding the extraordinary mess that they have built for themselves and want to sort it out.

 

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On the basis that something is going to happen this month – meaning that somebody is going to wake up and that we are going to get to the bottom of the mystery, I think it would be a good idea now to start calculating your losses caused by this mishandling of your account and your personal data.

This is separate to the forthcoming third SAR claim which presumably you will be putting in on 6 March.

I'm talking now about identifying the losses caused by the attribution to you of a mobile phone account and handset which have led to this problem.

So I think it would be a good idea if you could have a good think about harm that you have suffered as a result of this and then we will see how that can translate into losses and in respect of which we can then claim compensation.

Obviously there are two main areas which need to be addressed:
we need to understand the harm which has been done to your credit file and your financial reputation generally.
This would include the need to know the identity of any third parties with whom this inaccurate data has been shared so that we can understand the extent of the heart.
Obviously you will be looking for all of this to be completely erased from your credit file and also for steps to be taken by virgin to ensure that this matter it is entirely erased from their own files and from the files of any third parties.

We then need to understand what losses if any have been caused to you in terms of financial disadvantage. Have you been prevented buying anything or obtaining credit or have you had to pay more for credit?

We need to have a fairly good idea of what this is cost you in terms of hours spent trying to sort it out since you first discovered the problem.

And then we need to look generally at your reputational harm.

It might be helpful if you started putting this into some kind of spreadsheet.

All this will definitely be needed at some point so that you have very clear picture of the effect on you.

We are dealing here not only with breaches of the data protection rules in terms of unlawful processing of your data, but I suppose we are also looking at breach of contract because presumably they use data from your legitimate account to set up the mystery account.
 

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Credit file:

One account(showing balance of £0 due) for main line showing missed payments from December 2020 (when the contract itself was terminated in August 2020).

One account(showing loan of £204 due) for second line showing as being in default since November 2020.

As a result of these my credit score has gone down-this is due directly to these two accounts which showed on my credit report as a 'negative factor'

 

Credit disadvantage:

When my Virgin contract ended, I attempted to take up a new contract with another company.

I was prevented from doing so at Vodafone as they required a deposit of £150, plus I would not be entitled to the free handset, but would have had to pay £179 for it and the monthly payments would be increasd.

I was able to take out a handset at Three, but again instead of being entitled to it free, I had to pay £189 for it.

 

I will check carefully to estimate the amount of time involved-I have queries going back to October 2019 attempting to deal with this.
 

I have also received from Virgin another letter giving me the password to unlock the files they sent me(shame it doesn't actually work) and a second email again confirming they will erase my data unless they have to keep it.

 

I'm wondering if they're planning to use that email as their response for the ICO where he gave them until March 11 to either tell me what they are going to do to put things right or explain why they believe they have met their data protection obligations'?

 

 

 

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Who made the complaint to the ICO? Did we recommend it?

An uncharitable side of me wonders whether they aren't considering erasing all data in order to get rid of evidence of their bungling.
Have you checked your credit file? I think you need to make sure the get copies of everything you can from anywhere just in case various records get cleaned up. I think should set about that straightaway although it's a nuisance. Keep a note of the time you spend doing it.

Are you sure that the problems with Vodafone and also with Three were caused by your blighted credit file – blighted by virgin?

Can we take it that your credit file before this was clear?

I think it could be an idea to send an SAR to Vodafone and also to Three to see if they have any reference to the problem setting up your account with them and that those problems might have been caused by virgin.
Your credit file also might show searches by Vodafone and also by Three.
If there's anything else you can think of – then try to get the information.


 

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By the way, is there a telephone number for the mystery handset? Have you tried calling it?

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Any news on the wants of execution which have been issued so far?

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We have a happy update- the second claim that was served at the Reading main office apparently has been paid in full today! :D

 

On the other matters,I rang the number and there is just a message saying 'It has not been possible to connect you to this number.If you have dialled correctly,this number is not registered to a network'.

 

And it was indeed your good self who recommended I make a complaint through the ICO's website way back in October in post 3-they have until March 11 to respond to that.

 

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Great, thanks for the update.

I sort of wish that I hadn't suggested the ICO complaint now because clearly virgin are on notice and they seem to have expressed an intention to erase data. I didn't realise this was going to go on like that.

So you've got some money in the bank – and the other thing is that it is evidence that they are aware of everything and is there is not even an attempt to challenge the judgement, I think that amounts to a bland acceptance of the responsibility – although I suppose they would say that they simply paid because it made economic sense.

So I wonder what is happening to the first one? Are you able to enquire?

So the clock is ticking away on the third one so we will move on to the next stage as soon as that time limit has expired. I think the fact that there are two judgements against them – and one of them has been satisfied now will assist your latest claim if it gets as far as a judge to show that virgin are serial breachers of their data protection obligations

 

I asked earlier on if you had a telephone number for the mystery handset and whether you had tried calling it.

Also, could you address the question I put about the state of your credit file. Also, have you got copies of everything – including credit file – in case everything gets cleaned up?
 

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My credit file was clean before this-the only missing payments or problems are those with Virgin. I did address the question of the number of the mystery handset in the post above-it just gives out the message stated.

I shall get in touch with Sunderland Crown Court about the first claim-the chap from Reading said if it was their area(South East) it would be able to be as you now have an address where it is proved they could be served, but he didn't know if it was the same in every area. Obviously, it is not just a change of address but also a change of area and so a change of court that will be dealing with it.

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Sorry I missed the part about the message.

Excellent news that it was clean so that we can say that any damage has been caused was hundred percent by virgin.

Once again, please make sure that you have got copies of all data anywhere which is related to this problem – including damaged credit file – et cetera.

If virgin do start correcting their records and deleting data then your credit file will be updated within two or three weeks and it will then be difficult to get hold of the history.

Of course what would be funny would be if they simply updated your credit file as "settled".

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Their SAR time limit for the mystery line expires tomorrow-and today's post just brought an undated letter saying they are investigating my complaint and will be in touch shortly...

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Just a moment of caution – have any of the papers at all which you have received referred to this mystery phone and phone line?

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Yes,the last letters I have received dealing with my complaint and SAR request all explicitly state 

Complaint Reference:xxxxxxx

Telephone Number: <the unknown line>

 

 

 

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