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Potential issues with new car


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Hi all,

 

Car: 5 years old, 30k mileage purchased from the main dealer of the brand the car is.

 

 

Handover was pretty rushed and after 2 hours we just wanted to get out of there with the car which got further delayed because various accessories were removed from the car - something quite common if another customer is buying a similar car and has requested for instance mats to be included.  Luckily I had already taken photographs at the point of reserving the car a few weeks ago so stated we expected these to be in the car.

 

Main Issue:

 

It states on the multipoint check "Four Wheel Drive: All four wheels must always be fitted with tyres of the same type, make and tread pattern"

We have 1 front tyre of a budget brand, the other 3 the same however tread levels are very different in all 4 with the rears always differing by half a tyre (4 vs 7)

 

Annoyingly the entire book pack was missing (raised for replacement) however I found the manual online and it too states:

"All four wheels must be equipped with tires that are the same brand and have the same construction and tread pattern so that the drive system is not damaged by different wheel speeds"

 

Finally one tyre has cracking around the shoulder though unsure how much this matters on the location - this is the lower tread level tyre too.  (raised during first visit) and passed the MOT only a few days ago with flying colours.

 

I had my phone on the desk recording the entire 2 hours due to the way the pre-sales was handled and to transcribe the Multipoint checklist:

 

41:40

Sales Guy says:
Multipoint check included is part of the service
Multipoint Check and oil service carried out last month (says date)
been checked over for any last minute things
this is for you, all ticked off, lets tear these off as we go
You need to sign now to say you have received the report
 

Obviously our signature is on the basis of what he said verbally that all was ticked off and ok.

 

The day ended essentially with all documents in a folder, keys and folder handed over and we said our goodbyes.  We then dragged him back and spent a further 40 minutes faffing around for the bits that were missing in the car by essentially taking them out of anothrer car, trying the fit, finding another etc

 

So any leg to stand on re tyres and more importantly, the policy the brand sits on with the checksheet and manual?

 

thanks :)

Apologies for those who do prefer a bullet point list, I have tried to keep just the facts in here!

 

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Well done on recording everything.

Yes I think you have an excellent basis for claiming the cost of the tyres.

Please will you tell us more about the car. What model?
Who's the dealer?
How much did you pay?
When did you purchase the car?
What is the value of the items you need to bring it up to what you consider it should have been when you bought it?

Also, you say that the the story you have posted here so far involves the "main issue". Are there others?

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To be honest, it was your name that was constantly shouting at me saying record everything which is the only reason I did it :- )

 

Details - at this stage I guess there is no harm - I did email the findings last night with a read and delivery receipt (had the read this morning) but no response 

 

Model: Audi Q3

Dealer: Portsmouth Audi who are part of the Harwoods Group

Pay: Just short of 17k (part ex + Finance)

Purchased: 20/10 (yesterday)

Value: At this stage, the main issue is tyres with the rest being cosmetic and just looking on blackcircles/kwikfit etc, its around £120 per tyre

Others: Yes although some of these I wrapped up in the age of the car.

 

1. Only noticed because the sun was low yesterday evening, big chunk of the visor mirror (drivers side) is broken which will mean a new visor

2. Sat nav is not working - they accepted this and have ordered in the software to fix this (end of month)

3. Again on the Multipoint check, it states R for Battery which stands for Requires Further Attention.  We did notice on picking up it stated to switch the car on due to low battery but having sat out there for 40 mins waiting for the parcel shelf to be sourced and put in (this is what they "lost") assumed it was this that was draining it.

4. Rear bumper scratches  (obvious ones) - was told on viewing day it would be resolved but was not.  I do have a phone call recorded stating it would be by the time of pick up.

5. Book pack missing - raised yesterday and apparently they will order this in when I go to get the nav rectified.

 

My biggest concern are the tyres  - is it dangerous, is it causing damage to the wheel system as per manual, is it breaching the warranty by Audi that we have been given (2 years).

 

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As you only purchased the vehicle yesterday, you may as well start off gently.

I would suggest that you write them an initial very gentle letter saying that now you have the car home, you have had an opportunity to inspect it – which you hadn't done before the purchase – and that you have now noticed the following defects:
list out the defects and say to them that you will need to have them addressed and ask them for their comments.

If you can get an email off to them tomorrow and if you don't receive any response by Monday then I suggest that you send the same message in a recorded delivery letter.

Hopefully you are aware by now that under the consumer rights act, you have a right to reject a vehicle if any defects appear within the first 30 days of ownership – and I take this to mean defects which would mean that the car is not satisfactory quality – and it certainly sounds if the tyres are serious enough for that matter.

I think that if you find that they are mucking around and not addressing the situation by the end of next week then you should write a letter formally asserting your rights under the consumer rights act to reject the vehicle and tell them that you will be rejecting it.

However, best thing to do is to write that gentle letter straightaway and make sure that they have it tomorrow morning and see what happens. No point in getting into conflict straightaway – but certainly you had better get ready for it.

If they don't respond to the email then I would also suggest that in addition to sending the letter on Monday morning, that you send a copy it to their head office and a copy of the email to their head office as well. How did you pay the balance of the price?

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By the way, I'm not suggesting that you assert your right to reject in order to reject the car – but simply to reserve your position and to put them under pressure so they are under the impression that they may be getting the car back if they don't step up to the mark.

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Thanks BF  - you have pretty much summarised exactly what I have done so far :)

 

We are definitely not in a place to reject the car - it's otherwise very good and would much prefer just going down the rectify and sort out route. 

 

While it was fresh, I raised this with the salesman last night and at around lunchtime today, confirmed with with Audi UK too about their policy (confirming what we already know) however they will intervene only if PA are being obstructive.

 

I have just had a phone call from their service department so while not a peep from the salesman, it does look like he has actioned it somewhat.  he initially started with the need to book the car in however once I updated him about the actual scenario (having purchased it + his own dept checks) concluded in him agreeing that the 3mm difference alone between two of the tyres is not acceptable. I also stated based on this statement and also the fact the manual and MPC state it should not be on driven on different brands/treads/patterns, I would not drive it back to the dealer (50+ miles away) to book it in given its potential dangerous state.

 

He has gone to the team to discuss and will call back - Seemed pretty understanding so lets see the results.

I have the headoffice + the immediate audi brand director for the group to hand if we need to escalate 

 

As always, thanks again for your help/advice

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Salesman just called essentially saying they will be speaking to the various managers tomorrow to put together a plan of action - more to the point, its looking like they would come to me, pick the car up and take it back to PA to resolve the issues if I am not comfortable driving it up myself.

 

Lets see what they come back with tomorrow and go from there- He did ask if I had a car and I said yes - in hindsight I am now thinking its because we could be without the Q3 for a few days so this might also need to be raised as the "owner " is a heavily pregnant person hence the upgrade and don't want her to be carless if I am out at work and she needs to go for a scan/app ...

 

Will update tomorrow

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Thanks. It looks as if they are behaving very responsibly so far.

Keep a close eye on it though and keep good notes of everything that happens.

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Yup sounds it !  I did mention to the salesman I hold no issue with him because I think he did his part 

Servicing would have prepped the car, ticked the boxes and handed it over to say now go sell this.  He could be the worlds biggest car fanatic or the best salesman with no knowledge about cars so I can't expect him to have known or to even checked after the MPC.

 

I will ask if its just easier sending a tyre fitter or getting it done locally - at just over £400, its silly to send two people down, do 100+ miles in the Q3 + 100+ to get here and back + workshop time + ultimately new tyres (I assume)

 

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as promised an update.  It has become quite messy!

 

Call 1: Service advisor, earliest is 4th November meaning a week + and 2 weeks since purchase without a fit and safe car.

I said book it in but he needs to find a better option for tyres - rest can be on the 4th or even after the baby is out as shes in the 3 week window now.  Options I gave were I get it done locally or they arrange it whether its local or mobile.  This would be with a loan car but until then, we are to drive it (potentially) unsafe + the 50 mile trip there on the 4th.

 

Call 2:  The "best" they can do is drop a small a3 manual over tomorrow, pick ours up and take it back to POA but the whole point of changing from a manual to an auto was the pregnancy is not an all too normal one - driving clutch has been very difficult.

Even then, it would be just an investigation as its too late for parts ordering and so some point next week we would have conclusion.  I declined due to the above.  I stated there is no investigation require, its there in front of their own reports they let a car out out with 4 very differing tread levels, and I have already sent pictures of the different brands and patterns.

 

Call 3: Can't arrange local or mobile.  So its 4th or nothing.

I said (in front of a loaded gun), I have no choice but if there are any issues with the wheel system or whoever forbid, a blowout because of their cracked tyres etc, they will be liable as they are clearly saying we have to drive it up to them.

 

Kept then going on with the A3 manual, I stated just as I'm not prepared to risk dodgy tyres, I'm not risking her driving a manual while I'm at work if the baby is in distress in a car shes not even familiar with.  So I can go out to Enterprise and get a car on them or just get the 4 bits of rubber replaced on them.  By now, I'm getting quite annoyed and stressed out and he could tell.

I asked if the brand director was working today and to transfer me to him - I dealt with him yonks ago when he was a salesman because I don't want to reject the car but equally not driving around on bad wheels - I'm not an expert so I can only go on what Audi say in their manuals and multipoint checks...that is, they must be on the same.

 

Call 4: He spoke to everyone he could as high up as the brand director supposedly and they have said if I can get to them first thing tomorrow, they will replace all 4 tyres + battery.  I accepted.

 

Call 5: Mistake made - they can't get the parts in for tomorrow so Tuesday is earliest first thing.  Again I accepted.

 

So all in all, I think we have got there.  It's very easy to start to feel guilty or questioning yourself whether you are being OTT or just awkward but I don't think I was and had to stick to my guns here.  It's a different story if I trusted them and they were my usual dealership but from the get go, I have had no reason to trust them.  Again, I'm not an expert, I don't know if that cracked tyre will give way or if all 4 being on different treads will cause issues with the quattro system short/long term so I can only go on the literature from Audi that I have to hand.

 

Ironically, when we first went in 2-3 weeks ago to see it, I mentioned we would be back to chop mine in for an SQ5 as mine basd on  model/age/spec is one they want/desire but today I was very clear, once the tyres are done, I really don't want any future dealings with POA or even the Harwoods Group.  May have to one more time to get the Sat Nav sorted though as that has to be done there apparently.

 

Will update on Tuesday and again, all recorded!

 

 

 

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Okay, it looks as if you are making progress although it's obviously very tricky.

However, one important point – if something does happen then I'm afraid it's not their liability, it's your liability in terms of any criminal responsibility – and in terms of your insurance because you know the condition of the car and you are deciding to drive in that condition.

So I'm not trying to give you too much of a fright – but you should understand the situation.

So I expect that you are going to drive the car – I expect it's going to be okay – that you should drive the car very carefully and slowly.

 

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Thanks BF - it's a good point and I did know this but clearly forgot/didn't think about it - Just anger and frustration speaking I guess.

We have it parked up and won't really use it unless we have to until Tuesday which is going to be a crack of dawn trip to avoid any traffic - the route is pretty clear at that time of the morning even on a weekday.

 

The salesman rang earlier just to confirm Tuesday again but also that the Sat nav will be resolved then as they got the software they were waiting for.

Seems like all parties have calmed down a bit but I'm sure there will be a moment of awkwardness when I'm there before I remind myself that we've done nothing wrong :)

 

Have a good weekend!

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An update - The salesman who has dealt with most of this is off on Mondays which never helps and the senior service person there who I spoke to last week is also off all week.

 

I got a call from a service advisor today confirming the booking but was concerned I was waiting - explained (again) the story and he understood but on his job card, only had that he had to investigate the tyres and not necessarily replace.  Someone either is not communicating or I've been told lies.  I have gone through the recording and the salesman clearly states he has gone to upper management, discussed it and we will be replacing the tyres and battery to sort everything out.

 

Sat nav will be resolved tomorrow and they'll be looking at the broken sun visor. 

I have also emailed regarding the gearbox service - I have a good friend working at Audi servicing at another group and he had mentioned Audi should be carrying out servicing if due within 4 months or so and this was.  I raised it pre-collection a number of times and was shutdown each time with "if a service needs to be done, it will be done"

 

Fast forward to today when I got the job card to sign in advance, it clearly states:

Date: 20/10/2020 (our pickup day)

Carried out MPC & oil service Haldex Reqs gear oil service.

 

The Gearbox service is due at 38k and the car was sold at 35500 well within the 4k which is probably why their own systems have flagged it.

Haldex I'm not sure - this seems to be every 20k I think so due in 4.5k.  Oil service I can't see how they did it as the service history we got from them (verified by another dealer) was from September.

 

Lets see what they say tomorrow - I have flagged it with the service advisor from today but got no response.

 

Ironically, the friend did mention they've had other POA buyers book their car in elsewhere only to be told various handover bits were not done - I thought it was typical dealer rivalry talk but maybe there is truth in it.

 

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what time do you have to go in today? I am wondering whether it might not be a good idea to go in with the letter of claim and if there is any mucking around them to hand it to them.

 

We would have to draft something appropriate.

 

in any event I think you should prepare an sar and take it with you and hand it to them make sure that they realise what it is. Hand it to a senior manager.

 

Use our sar template here.

 

I think that they are starting to lead you around by the nose and I think that you should take control and make sure that they realise but there is only a short time before it goes legal. A letter of claim would be the best thing to do in addition to the sar 

 

 

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Literally just parked up in their carpark . I didn't want to leave in the middle of peak time and they wanted me in for 8.

 

I'll be working from the dealership so I have my laptop if needed.

What would the SAR be for? 

Will look at the templates once I'm in 

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Follow the SAR link and you will understand.

I'm sorry that we didn't get this communication earlier because frankly I might have advised you to call them and tell them that you weren't coming until everything was clear that that you would be sending the letter of claim.

I have a sense that there is a dispute within the company as to what they should be providing you with – which is crazy given the fact that we are not talking about a huge value here and yet we are talking about a quite expensive motorcar.

Keep us informed during the day about what happens and what is said – and I assume that you are still recording everything

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Thanks BF

Yes will be keeping the phone on record throughout the day and have lots of power packs to keep me going :- )

Thanks Again 

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Back home now - Not a wasted trip entirely but did not come back with the car.

They took it in straight away at 8 to sort out the navigation which apparently is resolved.  Next was a health check again:

1. Battery = defective

2. Fuel Flap solenoid - Apparently this was on the MPC but I even missed this.  So another one to add to the list of not rectified but vehicle handed to us.  Worst case with this is the flap does not open.

3. Sun Visor - Requires replacing

4. Navigation - Resolved

5. Tyres - The low tread has been deemed as perished - again, I do not understand how this went through MOT the day before collection!  And they also found a nail in the tread - by the looks of it and the lack of miles we've covered, it's been in there a while.  Agreed front right is budget make.

 

Took a bit of to/fro but all points have been authorised by Sales for Servicing to carry out - essentially as Sales missed this (or were told it was good to sell), they foot the bill.  Internal politics and all fake/virtual money.

 

The bad news is despite a note to order the battery last week "just incase", it was not done so battery, solenoid, visor and tyres all will be ordered in for tomorrow and resolved tomorrow hence coming back without it today.

Upside, after a bit of pushing, I did get an Automatic Q3 70 plate which was the salesmans own demonstrator.

 

Salesman also apologised for the way he had been/tone used last week so we've put all that in the past (if everything is sorted!)

 

Finally, raised the fact their MPC states various services need doing.  The service advisor agreed, checked and to my surprise, the day we picked it up, they were completed.

I got a printout stating this which included the oil service (even though it was done in September), gearbox service, Haldex (for the quattro system) and brake fluid.

 

Only thing I need to ask tomorrow is the parts list does not state Gear Box filter which is part of the service on the s-tronics and gear oil seems to be 1x G060175A2.  IF I am reading this correctly, this is only a top up of 850ml and not a complete service which should be around 5-7 litres + filter.

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Okay, it's turning out better than I expected.

We can go over a resume of the situation when you get it back and see what you think might be outstanding and if you want to do anything about any of it.

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Quick update - 

Good news is that I have been told the car is complete and ready for pickup.  It ran a bit over so we agreed the swap is now tomorrow as I would never make it there before closing time with rush-hour traffic.

 

Bad news is I have potentially now found out the gearbox and brake fluid service has not been carried out.  We went through this yesterday, got a printout too suggesting it has been done but having just looked more into it, it didnt look right with 2 things standing out.

For example: 

Part Number: G060175A2, Description : Gear Oil, Qty: 1 

This just kept standing out to me given my own Audi had 7 litres of it and they sell them in 1L bottles.

 

Looked up the part number and sure enough, its not gear oil but Haldex oil (part of the Quatro system).

 

Other thing that stood out was no filter on the sheet which is part of the service.  

 

Have just dropped them an email so lets see what comes out of it but again sheet I have which is a PDI Requirements sheet (pre-delivery inspection) states:

 

Carried out MPC & oil service

Haldex

Reqs gear oil service

Brake fluid change

 

I'm trying to remain calm :)

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Update, we almost got there...well as far as the exit sign.

Got here for 230 as discussed (320 now) and checked car over. Loaded up the nav, out postcode in, saw the map and then bang...same error again.

Gone back in now and has been in for half hour now so who knows. 

 

 

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When you say bang. What do you mean?

Have all the gearbox oil issues been sorted out.

I'm on a telephone in a car so it's difficult for me to go through it all and also to refresh my memory

 

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Bang as in error popped up.

 

The gearbox service ...nope , so service advisor things its done but not noted on the invoice they have. It is on a job card that's locked in another advisors draw thats locked and he is away for a week.

 

 

more bad news. They have checked the unit and its £3500 to replace. Sales will not authorised it and servicing/ aftersales will not on the basis sales knew about it before selling it.

 

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ok Finally got home!

 

I'll try and keep it short however we finally got to an agreeable place

 

  • Walked over to sales as there was no more servicing could do especially as the aftersales manager quite simply said they will not be footing the bill.
  • Spoke to the salesman, updated him and he was lost for words and had to ask me where things were left - 
  • Requested senior management to come down - both head of business and general sales manager are off for half term.  That left the buying manager - ironically the same who purchased the car in for the dealership.  He was called downstairs but in the time that he did, he must have called the aftersales manager.
     
  • Once down, everything suddenly changed -  I was told they are now 'reaching a compromise' (I assume between the two departments) and it will be put right.  The part is being ordered, is on backorder for 2-3 weeks and once in, they will fit it.

This of course means I am potentially out of my 30 day exchange/1000 mile exchange however appreciate I can drag it out if it came to rejecting it.

 

  •  I got the aftersales manager to put in writing the part IS being ordered and if the part does not for whatever reason fix it, I CAN exercise the exchange regardless of how many days/miles I am out.
    --This was CCd to the sales manager, the service advisor and the buying manager stating he is accepting/making the decision in the absence of the two other managers.

 

So all in one- another wasted 5 hours there + the drive up/down but we are hopefully now at a point the final issue will be either permanently fixed or it will be the deciding factor of returning the car.  The part-ex has also gone so it's not like we could even just change back for now.

 

The part is scheduled to arrive pretty much the week of our due date which really messes this up in terms of transport/planning however we'll cross that bridge then - for now, I need to destress the other half who really did not need this especially with what is essentially for her the baby car 

 

Could I ask - IF it does not fix it and we decide against the exchange - can we still reject?  If we can, what happens to the part-ex thats now gone/auctioned off?

 

I too believe 99% it will fix it but just curious.  

 

Also just for anyone else taking an interest, the MMI unit that is faulty is not just the navigation but everything Audi - phone, radio, cd, sd card, service indicators, settings for the various components - its all part of the MMI brain.  And so the reason this is important that it is resolved is usually with this unit, if one part fails, it's likely the entire unit will fail.

 

 

 

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check back tomorrow

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