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    • In addition to dealing with the individual problems that this person is creating for you, you obviously need to deal with it holistically because there is a problem of identity fraud which may well continue and will certainly affect you and your family throughout your lives. Nobody should underestimate the seriousness of this kind of thing. Although people will commonly apply the label of "identity theft", what you are actually dealing with here is "identity fraud" and it is well understood in academic circles. The police were quite wrong to say that there was nothing they could do. I'm afraid that this reflects under-resourcing coupled with poor staff development and a poor attitude. There are offences being committed here and the girl herself is committing fraud contrary to sections 1(2a), & 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents   Of course the police will find it very difficult to do anything and given their resources, I suppose they have other priorities. However, you could be certain that if your family was related to the head of the local police force, they would be dealing with it PDQ. You say that this has been going on for a number of years – but you don't say how long. Maybe you had better give us a detailed account of what has happened. Please set out in a bullet pointed chronology so that we don't have too much narrative but a good structured idea of what has happened. This should include a list of the problems which have occurred and how they have been dealt with and also complaints which you have attempted to make. You definitely need to start taking this very seriously. How old is your daughter? In terms of opening mail, you should open every letter that comes to you and if you find that it is associated with this fraud, then you should photocopy it/scan it into a computer and start building up a file. I hope you have kept some of the correspondence and other documents which you might have received. Please let us know what you have. You are definitely going to have to start accumulating a robust file of evidence and I suggest that the first thing you do is you start sending SARs out to all of the organisations which have been involved and see if you can tease out of them any personal data that they might have which is apparently linked to you. Either they will provide you with a statutory disclosure – or, of course, it will be amusing if they say that they are more proof of your identity and that they won't let you have the disclosure because they are not satisfied that the data they have relates to you. I don't think you're in a position to make any serious complaint until you have put together a convincing file of evidence which shows that there is systematic identity fraud. We will help you to start to do this and help you to structure the file that you will put together and then we can begin to explore avenues to make a complaint. It also occurs to me that they could be a basis year for making the complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 although this would be an unusual application of the act – that we can have a look when you put together your file.  
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GNE over billing and refusing to amend bills - domestic energy account.


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Hi,

 

Green Network Energy have been over billing my account for supply of gas since Mar 2020 for a contract that was entered into Nov 2019. 

 

GNE were provided with an initial meter reading when the contract was commenced and it is specified in their terms and conditions that this will be used to produce estimated bills in future.

 

To date GNE have produced 4 inaccurate bills grossly in their favour. These bills were produced using an inaccurate opening reading provided by industry estimate, this has culminated in a final bill of over £2400.

 

I appreciate it is an entrenched position however GNE have recently been using a third party to repeatedly call me to provided them with meter readings. I have declined to assist them as I prefer to enforce the terms of the contract at no inconvenience to myself and because the terms and conditions include no basis for me having to do so.

 

This is not a vendetta and has the stated aim of improving GNE's performance and treatment of customers in the future. I also openly resent being asked to perform duties on behalf of their third party particularly as they are likely billing GNE for their service.

 

I have disputed every inaccurate bill in writing (via email) except the first bill as the bill amount was in keeping with expectations and the error went unnoticed.

 

I have submitted a SAR in writing which has been acknowledged by their Data Protection Team.

 

There is an open ombudsman case which they have challenged.

 

I have taken steps to switch to another supplier as well as cancel my direct debit due to their failure to perform to the standards of the contract. It is highly likely they will attempt to deny the switch to the new supplier due to the amount owing on the account.

 

I am willing to pay what I owe however they have refused repeated requests for details of how to make payment.

 

I am considering a legal claim for breach of contract and am preparing a letter before claim. Should they escalate the unsubstantiated debt to a DCA (which they have threatened) then I will consider including damages for fraud within the claim.

 

I am grateful for any and all advice and am happy to answer further queries.

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so have you paid anything since nov 2019?

 

surely it should be quite easy to discover their bank details.

then pay what you think you owe by bacs.

 

not sure where you acquaint fraud with the involvement of a dca to chase you.?

 

totally powerless and not bailiffs.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to GNE over billing and refusing to amend bills - business energy account.

Hi Dx, thank you for your input.

 

1. Yes, I have paid the agreed direct debit amount set up when the contract was entered until the point of cancellation.

 

2. Thank you for your suggestion, I have found their bank details and can now pay what I think I owe.

 

3. Quite simply if they take action and correct the billing then I think GNE do not seek to cause me unjustifiable loss.

 

If instead of correcting the billing they simply move to collect the unsubstantiated debt then they have made a false representation (the bills), dishonestly, knowing that the false representation might be untrue (based on the information they have already received as well as information provided by Ofgem and no doubt their own accounts) with intent to make a gain for themselves and to cause loss to myself.

 

In addition to the above the supplier occupies a position in which they are expected to safeguard, or not to act against, the financial interests of their customers. (I.e. provide accurate billing) by claiming the debt they have abused that position, dishonestly, intending by that abuse to make a gain/cause a loss.

 

With regards to the topic, this is a domestic account not a business account.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to GNE over billing and refusing to amend bills - domestic energy account.

sorry it just read so much like the business stories we have here.

 

so, the bottom line is that GNE want more money then what is owed

you've involved Ofgem you say?

and you are awaiting the SAR return.

 

it's quite std practice to involve DCA, and thats nothing to bother about.

 

you have a record of the initial correct move in reading?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Your bottom line assumption is correct.

 

If by involving Ofgem you mean using the ombudsman that is correct.

 

I am awaiting the SAR return (they have pleaded extra time due to Covid but I am of the opinion they should be put to proof if they delay beyond the statuatory time limit)

 

I do have a record of the initial correct account change over reading.

Edited by Intrepid
wording
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brilliant.

await the sar then

and you should be able to workout what you actually owe, 

is the bill currently £2400 or is that the total they are wishing to charge minus payments made to date?

 

as long as you are below £500 they can't object to the switch, esp if the sum is in dispute.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I can work out what I owe.

 

Yes £2400 is the total they wish to charge on top of payments made to date, after paying what I think I owe (to be calculated tomorrow) I expect this amount to reduce to no less than £1800 (I.e. they are over billing by approximately £1800).

 

For this reason I expect them to object to the switch. My new supplier has reached out asking "if there is anything I would like to discuss". I have not responded and am unsure if their motive would be to assist me in switching or to dump me as a new customer due to the ongoing dispute.

Edited by Intrepid
wording
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well that consumption can't be right

you are not an industrial unit!!

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Exactly which is the core issue for the dispute they have estimated an annual usage in excess of 100,000 kWh of gas. Not only estimate it but they have attempted to bill for it as well.

 

This is again why I move to make a case for fraud. Their action is so egriegous it must be known to be dishonest and potentially a deliberate move to prevent switching supplier.

 

Therefore any corrective action does not hinge on my input, notwithstanding it is not required in their terms and conditions.

 

I offered to read the meter for them based on prepayment of £2400 but they didn't respond.

 

I also offered to wave the fee for doing so if they send me reasonably estimated bills.

Edited by Intrepid
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no now come on, stop being too much of a stick in the mud.

 

simply send them any readings over the whole period you have.

that will give you a very solid basis to say xx useage = xx cost + any standing charges for the contract term = £xxx. i offer this now to close our mutual issue.

 

you can hit them afterwards with the regulators etc etc , sometimes its better to help them resolve things rather than digging feet in.

no i agree you don't deal with 3rd party interlopers, and no you don't deal with DCA's etc.

but it's can't really be defined as fraud no.

 

you also can't charge anyone 'fees' for you doing something you really should be doing anyway.

over all some of what you are indicating worries me it's based on some sort of freemen of the land advice sites.

following such information can be damaging to ones overall credibility. and unnecessarily complicate matter and relations toward a sensible resolution.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I appreicate your input. While I did not move to charge them fee's I simply estimated the cost of doing so (my estimate may have been a little high).

 

They will not improve their standard of service unless they are forced to improve. Bearing some of the cost to correct their actions is the only remedy for businesses willing to commit potential fraud against its customers.

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well let the relevant authorities do that , not a consumer..

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sage advice, unfortunately the mouths of the energy ombudsman are fed by the suppliers. The conflict of interest is staggering and will in no way lead to a consumer focused industry.

 

Engaging the authorities to do so may may require a legal claim. IMO the ombudsman is simply a blockage to proper recourse as their average award is £50. In this current case GNE can attempt its billing practice 36 times before it becomes unprofitable.

Edited by Intrepid
wording
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  • 3 weeks later...

Update 07/11/20

GNE attempted twice to have the complaint dismissed by the Ombudsman, one attempt to dismiss the complaint used false and misleading information, both attempts have been unsuccessful.
 

I have substantial evidence that GNE have lied to the Ombudsman on two occasions in a deliberate attempt to mislead them, should this affect any judgement of the case by the Ombudsman then in all likelihood I will reject the decision of the Ombudsman and continue a claim in the courts. The fact that GNE have deliberately mislead the ADR service combined with the fact they deliberately used egrigeous billing methods on my account indicates this is not simply a mistake but a fraudulent act designed to cause me significant loss.

 

I am currently unclear how the law makes allowances for wrong doers that take action to correct their fraud if not due to any sense of guilt but simply to reduce the effect of any punishment when it is clear the fraud will not succeed. I am unclear whether this could have a significantly detrimental affect on the success of any lawful claim brought as a consequence.

Edited by Intrepid
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  • 2 weeks later...

Green Network Energy passed my details to a third party who then repeatedly called me to carry out a task they had been contracted to complete.

 

I maintain they had no right to contact me as part of their contractual obligations and GNE should not be passing my data to a third party.

 

The data protection team of GNE initially denied passing my details to a third party before they were directly asked about their relationship with the company Lowri Beck.

 

I am considering a claim for breach of GDPR. Any experienced caggers think the cause for action is sufficient?

Edited by Intrepid
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What task was it that they had been contracted to complete? Where they contracted by the energy company? Have you look closely at your terms and conditions? It may be that you have consented to have various bits of work done in order to maintain your system or your supply.

In any event, I can tell you that unless you can show some actual loss, the amount you could claim would be very small. I think we need to know more details

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Green Energy Passed my Details to Lowri Beck to carry out a task - is this a Cause for action after GDPR breach??

thread title updated

Lowri Beck install meters and manage the supply infrastructure for numerous suppliers

 

can't see any issue here at all.

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I have not seen the contract between them but presume Lowri Beck were contracted to read my meter.

 

Lowri Beck proceeded to repeatedly ring me asking me to carry out the task of reading the meter which I presume is what they were supposed to be doing and were being paid for it.

 

GNE terms and conditions state they will not pass on details to a third party for independent use in line with GDPR regulations, so I believe any cause for breach would hinge on whether Lowri Beck should have been calling me and whether the purpose of the call falls under the definition of independent use.

 

GDPR and GNE's terms and conditions repeatedly refer to third parties as processors, I cannot find much guidance that indicates companies can contact you directly. My assumption would be they had the right to know my address and meter number only for the purposes of carrying out their contracted task.

 

The loss is centred on the harrassment and distress as a result of GNE needlessly passing my phone number to third party who then repeatedly attempted to harrass me into carrying out thier contractual obligation.

 

They may have realised this when after the first call they switched to claiming it was GNE calling me and not the third party.

 

While not particularly relevant to a GDPR claim, at the time GNE were in breach of contract while potentialy attempting to commit fraud and should have been putting things right at their own accord.

Edited by Intrepid
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why are a company having to get meter readings.??

why are you simply not sending them on a regular basis to GNE via their webportal

 

you have no claim under GDPR whatsover, they are quite entitled to farm out meter reading tasks to whomever they wish, as do the major providers for those without smart meters.

 

dx

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yes obviously they are entitled to subcontract tasks, the question is are subcontractors entitled to contact if they have no need to? This seems to be a complete u-turn on your previous policy of not engaging with third parties.

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they are not a 3rd party...

 

so HOW are you sending regular meter readings or do you already have smart meters?

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

How are Lowri Beck not a third party in this case, even GNE admit to them being so.

Third Party - "a person or group besides the two primarily involved in a situation, especially a dispute."

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why are you avoiding to answer how you are giving meter readings?

 

sorry, but something smells here in your reluctance to answer that very simple question?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

I think you're getting distracted from the core issue. GNE wanted to read the meter, they also indicate in their terms and conditions they will aim to do so regardless of the reasons why. Clearly as a second rate supplier they do not employ their own engineers to carry out such a task and contract it to a third party, fine, they choose how to operate their business.

 

In the years gone by whenever an energy supplier has decided to take meter readings whomever is carrying out the task has never attempted to repeatedly call me they simply carried out their contractual obligation as is their right to do so.

Should this third party be contacting me without my consent for what I believe is their independent use.

This a question regarding GDPR and I hoped by posting it in the data protection forum it would be read by people with the commensurate experience.

Smell away I'd be grateful if someone focusing on the GDRP issue were to cast a view.

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4 hours ago, Intrepid said:

Yes obviously they are entitled to subcontract tasks, the question is are subcontractors entitled to contact if they have no need to? This seems to be a complete u-turn on your previous policy of not engaging with third parties.

which was in regards to a guess this was a DCA chasing 'a debt' as you failed to identify till today, whom was contacting you, it now becomes clear the people trying to do have contractual cause - to gather meter readings.

  

3 hours ago, Intrepid said:

Should this third party be contacting me without my consent for what I believe is their independent use.

 

yes they are entitled too and no i don't believe what they intend to collect is for their independent use.

they are carrying out their contractual obligation duty which, under the suppliers T&C's they can delegate.

i also suspect that covid is playing a part here too.

 

under gdpr even though they are getting your details from GNE, they would, quite rightly, have to carryout their own checks to ensure they are dealing with the correct person, if this is what is concerning you.

 

my overall thoughts here are that you are sadly kicking up a stink about nothing under GDPR.

 

Had you supplied correct and regular meter readings to GNE you p'haps would not have suffered the over billing and the resultant excessive billing issues upon various fronts you have suffered and this p'haps too, should be the focus of your 'complaint'. 

 

Granted the initial reading upon sign-up to GNE appears to have been erroneous, for whatever reason, but again, one would have thought as a consumer you would have recorded such important details when switching to them, again ensuring the previous supplier correctly bills until the switch itself.

 

It smacks to me that you have either by design or sheer innocence, failed to give the required data to enable correct billing, leading too excessive estimated bills and now want to wave your arms around..

 

their website and indeed the online portal clearly states your responsibilities and gives an easy simple way to do so.

https://greennetworkenergy.co.uk/help-centre/meters-and-meter-reading/

 

dx

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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