Hermes lost my parcel worth £70. I did not insure it, am I entitled to a full refund?

[Voldemort]

Hello,

 

I sold an item, which I chose to post with Hermes on 09.09.2020. Unfortunately, I did not purchase insurance for the package. The package was worth a total of £70, not including the £3 delivery fee. 

 

On the 18th of September I submitted a lost claims form.

 

I finally received a response a few days ago, saying I will receive a refund at the 'maximum value of £20', alongside the cost of postage. However before I even had the chance to respond, I received a refund into my account today. Does this remove my right to claim back the £73 I am owed? I clearly asked many times for the full refund, and told them I don't want £20.

 

I have mostly contacted them over the phone apart from two small emails, so there is not much to attach. I have not contacted them since.

 

Please could you advise me on what would be the best course of action?

 

Thanks 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Voldemort
Made a mistake in the total amount

[dx100uk]

yes ofcourse you are

 

but 1st

on what platform did you sell the item that resulted in you using them to send it?

 

dx

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please make sure that you have read through many of the Hermes threads in this sub-forum.  This will help you to understand what happens and what the principles are.

 

The basis of your position should be that it is unfair that Hermes - or any other company expect you to insure against their own negligence, criminality or breaches of contract.  This is effectively saying that "if we get things wrong, then you the customer will be liable to pay for our mistakes".

Obviously this is unfair and also if this situation is allowed to continue, it removes any motivation for Hermes to improve.  Why should they spend money improving their systems and doing a better job if they know that they won't have to reimburse their customers?

 

 If you want to get your money back then you will have to threaten and then probably begin a legal action against them.  It is shameful that Hermes will spend more money trying to crush you than it would cost them to refund you your £40.

 

One flaw that they have already exposed is that they say in their message to you that you "chose" a certain level of compensation.  This is not true because this is foisted on you.  You had no choice.  It is not opt out - it is not even opt-in.  It is part of the deal and they leverage it to say that this is what you "chose".  A Hermes lie.

 

If you want to get your money back, we will help you.  Hermes will test you to see if you really want to spend £25 and take a legal action.  They may then pay you out.  However, they may continue to test you by forcing you to pay the hearing fee of £40 (I think) - and then they will ask to go to mediation instead of going to a proper hearing.  At the telephone mediation hearing they will try to offer you less than you are asking and also they will try to avoid paying you your costs. 

You will have to dig your heels in and refuse and convince them that you are happy to go to court unless they pay you everything.

Even the mediator will try to get you to accept a reduced settlement.  Just refuse - refuse - refuse.  Eventually Hermes will agree to pay you everything including costs and the money will be with you within 10 days.

You need to realise that if Hermes gets a judgment against them which says that their "insurance" is unfair - which it is - that their business plan will be destroyed and it will cost them millions - and the rest of the courier industry as well.

 

For this reason, for a mere £40 they will back down - but they will make a symbolic gesture to make people think that they aren't a pushover.

 

Let us know what you want to do 

 

 

[Voldemort]

I appreciate the fast responses. I used an app called Depop to sell the item. 

 

I will have a look in the next few days at more threads to expand on my knowledge. 

 

I thought I should mention, I did get quite desperate at one point and wrote an email to them saying that if they do not give me the full refund I am willing to take this further to a small claims court. Does saying that reduce my credibility at all? It was just an attempt to increase my chances of getting the full refund.

 

I definitely want to go through with it, I will do anything it takes. 

 

Thanks again

[BankFodder]

Well it certainly doesn't help your credibility but it doesn't prevent you from taking action. The best thing to do is start from scratch. Read the threads. Take advice from us and don't do anything until you have checked with us. At the end of the day the decisions are yours but I suggest that you read our advice before you make your decisions.

Get back here as soon as possible

[Voldemort]

I have read around other threads, and I would like to go through with it.

 

Is my particular case more likely to succeed, since it is for a smaller amount of money (£40)? 

 

I took from one of your posts that the lower the amount of compensation being demanded by the claimant, the lower the chances are that Hermes will escalate it to court. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Yes, of course. The smaller the amount of money then then the less sense it makes economically and also risk wise it is for Hermes to try and defend against you.

However, you have to assume that it will go to a hearing and prepare for that. Anything else is a bonus

[Voldemort]

I think I will just have to do it. It is really unfair that they are stealing peoples money like this.

 

Please let me know what I should do next.

 

Thank you again

[BankFodder]

So can we just condense it down please.

You sent a parcel on 9 September.
It was worth £70 – although you haven't told us what it contained. Please do.
Hermes lost it and admitted it.
They eventually paid you out £20 even though you had told them that you are prepared to accept this.
They paid you this money on the basis that you had "chosen" insurance of that level

Therefore you are currently out of pocket by the tune of £50 plus £3 delivery.

Is this correct

[Voldemort]

I sent the parcel on the 10th of September.

 

The package contained shoes. 

 

The parcel is worth £70, and that's what I marked it as on the lost claims form. 

 

I paid £3.04 for delivery.

 

I was refunded £23.04

 

So I am owed £50.

 

[BankFodder]

Okay, if you are prepared to go ahead then you should send them a letter of claim. Give them 14 days to refund your money after which you will start a claim in the County Court.

Only send this letter if you are prepared to go ahead with your threat on day 15. Otherwise you will simply lose credibility. I'm afraid you won't get your money back any other way.

You will probably have to issue the claim papers which will cost you £25. If they are really stupid for this kind of money then they will push you to pay the hearing fee which is about another £40 or £50 – I'm not sure – and on the basis that you win, you will get all that money back.

Read around the Hermes threads to see how it works. They will probably opt to go to mediation and that will be their opportunity to try and knock you down and you will find that the mediator will probably try to put pressure on you as well to compromise on your rights. We would suggest that you don't do this and that you stand your ground.
The carrot for Hermes is that if they pay you out completely then you won't go to court and there won't be a judgement against them. The stick for Hermes is that if they do push you to court and you win then you will get a judgement against them which will be very damaging for them generally. For this kind of money they would be really stupid to risk it – but they may test you by forcing you to pay various fees. The extraordinary thing about Hermes – like many other big companies, is that they will pay more money to try and crush you that it would cost them simply to pay you out.

These people are really stupid.

Draft a letter of claim and keep it simple and post it here before you click it off.
Draft particulars of claim and post it here before you click that off.

After you have sent your letter of claim, use the 14 days to make sure you understand the steps in bringing your action and also to register on the MoneyClaim site so that you can get everything ready and on day 15 click off the claim.

 

[Voldemort]

This shows the status of the delivery. 

[BankFodder]

They will have to provide proof that it was delivered – either a photograph or a signature.

[Voldemort]

Thank you for your help, I will update you soon.

[BankFodder]

Also, I think it would be a good idea to visit the very large Hermes complaints Facebook group – there are about 12,000 people – although there are probably a few hundred Hermes couriers who have sneaked in as well – and start getting screenshots of other people who have had their parcels lost even though delivery has been claimed, but no proof of delivery is offered.

I think it will help you to have may be up to a dozen examples so that you can show a mediator or a judge that this is a massive problem with Hermes and that they are routinely losing people's property even though it is claim to be delivered but for some reason rather they are never able to produce any proof.

[Voldemort]

I've joined the Hermes group on Facebook, and I am in the process of writing the letter. 

 

Thanks for your patience.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Please post-op the letter before you send it so we can check it.

Also, someone else who who is claiming against Hermes has put together a very useful collection of Hermes images which you can access here. I suggest that you download them and include them as part of your evidence

 

[BankFodder]

Update???

[Voldemort]

Hi BankFodder,

 

Sorry for just vanishing for a while.

 

I have written some drafts for the letter of claim, but I am yet to complete it.

 

Thanks for your advice in the last message I appreciate it. 

 

I will try to complete the letter for tomorrow and show you before sending it off.

 

Many thanks 

[Voldemort]

I've attached the letter of claim below. I hope it is good enough to send.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Letter before claim version 2 docx.docx

 

[BankFodder]

Your letter is a bit overcomplicated and also you don't need to bang on about the insurance. Let them raise all those kinds of issues.

Also you didn't include reference number.

I suggested a draft – below. If there's anything you want to add then let us know but if you are happy with it as it is then send it off.

Make sure that you understand the steps required to bring a small claim in the County Court. Lots of information on this site. Make sure that on day 15 you are prepared to issue the papers. If you think that this letter of claim is going to produce any results then you haven't understood what idiots you are dealing with.

During the 14 days that they have a letter of claim in their possession, register on the MoneyClaim online website and start preparing your claim. You can save your work as you go.

Post your proposed particulars of claim here. Keep it very brief. You don't need to use much more information than is contained in the letter below.

There will be a checkbox asking you if you want to send more detailed particulars of claim separately – do not check it. Your particulars of claim which you will draft as part of your initial claim will be more than adequate

 

 

 

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

Letter of claim – reference number XXX

 

 

You have lost the parcel containing a pair of shoes and which was sent to an address in XXX town using your courier service.

 

This loss was caused by your negligent handling of my property and it amounts to a breach of contract.

You have admitted that you have lost the parcel and you have refunded me £XXX. Of course this does not reimburse me for my loss.

If you do not reimburse me the outstanding balance of £50 within 14 days, I shall see you in the County Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

 

[BankFodder]

Also make sure that you've read enough of the threads here to understand that your arguments in relation to the lack of insurance relate to the unfairness of any term which requires you to pay money to protect them against their own wrongdoing or negligence.

It is essential that you understand this and that you have looked at the unfair terms in the consumer rights act and that you feel comfortable talking about it when it comes to dealing with the mediator.

Also, make sure that you understand what will happen during the mediation process and how you will come under pressure from the mediator to reduce your claim. There will be no need to do this. Stand your ground and insist on being paid out in full – the 50 quid plus your claim fee plus any other fees.

Hermes have a lot to lose if they decide to go to court on this and they have a judgement against them which says that there so-called insurance scheme is unfair.