Didn't Get NiP, Received An AOE Order, Paid Immediately, Doing SD now along with SJPN..but what do i put??

[Biker1-74]

Hi All, 

 

After some advice.

 

I received notification of an Attachment of earnings order at the beginning of September.

It turned out it was for a speeding fine from August 2019, I did not received the paperwork.

I had moved house, had a redirect in place, but had not changed the logbook at the point of the fine (I know my fault), but would have expected the royal mail redirect to work as it had for other mail that was redirected to me.

 

I paid the fine immediately and raised a statutory declaration,

 

I received that today and am in the process of completing it stating that I did not know about the court date  etc and the reasoning behind it.

 

Now I have a Single Justice Procedure Notice and I need to complete if I am guilty/not guilty, for the following -

 

1, Fail to give information relating to the identification of the driver of a vehicle. S172

2, Exceed a variable speed limit - automatic camera device

 

How should I compete the form,

should I put not guilty to both but then state under the mitigation section that I will plead guilty for speeding (and only providing) the S172 charge is dropped. 

 

I already have 3 points on my license, then 6 for failure to provide information.

If I then get another 3 points for the speeding then I will loose my license, so I don't want to accept both charges.

Or with the risk of potentially getting 12 points

 

should I bite the bullet and get a solicitor to assist?

If so any recommendations,

 

I really cannot afford £1000s as currently going through a legal battle with the Ex!

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

We have a member who's good on motor cases, I'll try sending him an SOS for you. You may not need a lawyer. 

 

HB

[Man in the middle]

Can I get this straight:

 

You've been convicted in your absence of "Failing to Provide Driver's Details (a "S172" offence) and were fined (total of £811 or thereabouts with costs and victim surcharge?).

 

You've been on the wrong end of an "attachment to earnings" order to collect that sum.

You applied to perform a Statutory Declaration (SD) but haven't done it yet.

And now you've received a SJPN.

 

So what is the SJPN for?

You've already been convicted in your absence and paid the fine (albeit you will get it back after you have performed your SD).

 

There is no reason to recommence the prosecution at this stage because the original one has not yet been set aside (and won't be until you perform your SD).

Is there a second offence in the offing perhaps? 

[Biker1-74]

Hi Man in the Middle,

 

Today I received the SD and SJPN today via an email and this is the steps they told me that I need to complete.

 

You must

• complete the attached statutory declaration form
• make sure you add to the form
  • the date you first knew about the conviction
  • how you first knew about the conviction
  • your name
  • your contact telephone number
  • the date you completed the form
• indicate your plea to each offence in writing. You can do this on the Single Justice Procedure Notice.
  • make sure you add your name and the date 
  • If you are pleading not guilty explain why.
• send these as soon as possible.

 

So I completed the SD with the fact that I was not aware of the speeding offence as I did not receive the redirected mail. And the SJPN was attached on the email, this SJPN mentions the failure to identify the driver and also the 60 in the 50 variable speed limit. I assumed that I needed to complete that now as well?

 

sorry - Man in the Middle, Just re-read this,

When I say I have completed the SD I have filled it in but not sent anything back as yet.

 

Thanks

 

 

[dx100uk]

for future ref.

most court envelopes state on them, - do not re-direct.

[Biker1-74]

Hi Dx,

 

Wow did not know that, as i found out would rather have them redirected than the junk mail!

 

Thanks

 

 

 

[Man in the middle]

Right, got it now. Things are being handled a bit differently a the moment.

 

Normally you would have to attend court to perform your SD and it is then you would have the matters put to you again. However, most areas are conducting that process by post for obvious reasons.

 

So the SD will set your original conviction aside and the prosecution against you restarted (by means of the SJPN). In response to the SJPN you should plead Not Guilty to both charges.

 

I'm not sure (long time since I've actually seen an SJPN) but I believe it has a section where you are asked the reason for a NG plea. If there is it is here you should mention your offer.

 

The matter will then be listed in the normal Magistrates' Court for a hearing which you must attend (but see below).  

 

If you attend you should then seek out the prosecutor if you can and offer the "deal" you mention (to plead guilty to the speeding matter on the condition that the S172 charge is dropped). If you cannot see the prosecutor beforehand make your offer when you are asked to enter your pleas in the courtroom.

This is a procedure well known to all concerned (the prosecutor, the Magistrates and their Legal Advisor) and should present no problems.

 

You should then be sentenced simply for the speeding.

 

Out of interest, what was the speed/limit alleged?

If it would have been eligible for a fixed penalty (£100 and 3 points) you could be really cheeky and ask the court to sentence you at the fixed penalty level.

 

They have guidance which (sort of) allows this:

 

Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances.

 

Of course, the problem you have is that you caused the "administrative difficulties" but as they say, don't ask and you won't get. A kindly Bench may take pity on you or perhaps split the difference by imposing a £100 fine but also imposing prosecution costs (£85). They can only say "no".

 

One other thing:

I have heard that in some areas where a SJPN is returned offering to do the "deal" then it is handled under the SJ process rather than listing the matter for a full hearing. This makes sense if they want to keep personal attenders to a minimum but not everywhere is doing this.

 

The important thing is to make sure you enter Not Guilty pleas to both matters.

Pleading guilty to speeding without the deal is a possible route to nine points.

 

They cannot convict you of speeding unless you plead guilty (they have no evidence that you were driving) and if you do plead guilty they may still proceed with the S172 matter which you will have difficulty defending. Hey Presto! Nine points!

 

You do not need a solicitor for this.

Just maintain your NG pleas until you are sure the deal is accepted, whatever process the court in question uses.

 

Let me know if I can be of more help.

[dx100uk]

2 hours ago, Biker1-74 said:

So I completed the SD with the fact that I was not aware of the speeding offence as I did not receive the redirected mail. And the SJPN was attached on the email, this SJPN mentions the failure to identify the driver and also the 60 in the 50 variable speed limit. I assumed that I needed to complete that now as well?

 

 

[Man in the middle]

Thanks for that, dx. 

 

Yes that would have qualified for a Fixed Penalty, In fact it would have qualified for a course but alas that ship has sailed.

[Biker1-74]

Hi MITM, Thanks for your concise advice so far. Looking at the SJPN there is a section for 'I am pleading Not Guilty because:'  If I put in there  -

 

'I will plead guilty for speeding (and only providing) the S172 charge is dropped. In addition based on the fact that it was 60 in 50 variable speed limit and I would have been eligable for a fixed penatly of £100 and 3 points, Is it possible that the courts would consider that I be sentanced at the fixed penalty level?'

 

Isnt this kind of me admiting that I am guilty even though I had said not guilty earlier in my response, or is this common practice and would be fine for me to put this on the form.

 

Thanks

[Man in the middle]

12 minutes ago, Biker1-74 said:

Isnt this kind of me admiting that I am guilty even though I had said not guilty earlier in my response, or is this common practice and would be fine for me to put this on the form.

 

No, it's common practice. It's exactly what you would say if the matter was heard with you attending a court in person. It happens up and down the land every day (well, not perhaps every day at the moment but everybody will know what you mean). A "Single Justice" is an ordinary Magistrate who also sits in the normal court as part of a Bench of three and he or she will have seen the process take place in court.  You could preface your paragraph with a brief explanation (no need to go into great detail) why you did not receive the earlier documentation. What happened to you in that respect is also a common occurrence.

 

As I explained you cannot be convicted of speeding as things stand. The police are only really concerned with the speeding matter. Unless they believe you failed to name the driver deliberately they are not really interested in seeing you convicted for what, in your case, is an administrative mistake. But they have to have the threat of prosecuting the more serious offence (a S172 offence carries six points, a hefty fine and an insurance crippling endorsement - you really don't want one of those). If they didn't everybody could fail to identify the driver and nobody would be convicted of speeding. But you hold the cards (in the form of offering to plead guilty to speeding) to enable them to see a conviction for speeding and not have to go to the trouble of getting a conviction for the more serious offence.