VT, balance and credit file.

[Astronomyphilly]

Hi guys,

 

This might be a long one as I'm a little in the dark and don't seem to have a lot of documentation ( recent house move) but I've dug out and searched emails for what I can and hopefully I'll find more. 

 

I had secured a new job last September which required driving many miles and so I found a suitable vehicle, hit some brokers and these muppets actually surprisingly came back the cheapest. 

 

Car was purchased for £8500 on the 13/08/2019

 

Unfortunately broke my leg and subsequently lost my job 2 months later

 

I don't have the entire email trail or documents yet but I I've found a few discussing the  Termination and that clearing the balance I would owe. The current total outstanding at that time was £7911 form what I can find. The total agreement would have been £14209 over the term. 

 

The car was given back and collected organised with them and I assumed that was that. The £8000 or so the car was worth wood cover what I owe and that would be it.

 

I received a letter on the 16/12/2019 that they expected the car to sell for £4000 to £4500 and that somehow after this I would still owe between  £10,209 and £9709.

 

The car actually sold for £6650, still way under its market value at the time. I was a bit annoyed at this but in my eyes that left, if anything was owed at all, £1261.

 

£52 Auction fee was added

£25 Damage/repair fee added. Car was utterly immaculate.

£275 Recovery fee was added

 

There is Termination billing listed at £13516

 

I explained if anything was owed at all it would be the difference of £1261 and as that they had sold the vehicle for substantially less than its current value I was prepared to take them to court over it.

 

Hounded me, pestered me, threats, abuse etc and so on. Ignored it all, sent one further email reiterating the same and requesting any further correspondance in writing. I got an automated reply and I have not heard a word since, over a year.

 

However as we're recently married and looking to buy our first home I was surprised when a few lenders turned us down or upped the rates due to my credit file. 

 

Upon looking it states MoneyBarn with an outstanding balance of £7900 and every month since the vehicle was returned a default marker recorded. News to me.

 

We moved only 6 weeks ago, I've had not a word letter or call from then since that final email, certainly nothing explaining this.

 

So, where do I stand and what the hell can I do with these morons? Its pretty much ruined my file and any chance of a mortgage, at least one that is affordable.

 

All help and advice appreciated, 

 

Thank you,

Phillip

 

 

[dx100uk]

did you specifically send them a Voluntary Termination letter from Here or one of the other like sites?

if not it will be Voluntary surrender and you'll be liable for the whole amount of the agreement, not just to the 50% mark under VT.

 

dx

 

[Astronomyphilly]

I am struggling to find the emails for some reason, can only seem to find the replies.

 

The employee I last recal speaking to we discussed returning or selling the car to hopefully cover what was owed and that would be it. Value if the car being thereabouts.

 

 I do remember requesting a final settlement figure at the time, posted above in case I decided to sell the car. Having spent years in the trade with contacts I figured I may be able to get more privately.

Ultimately I gave it to them and I've not heard a word since. 

 

I'm not to up on the 50% termination and surrendering the car.

I told them willingly to collect it or I would deliver it to them myself after discussing with them 

 

I assumed me arguing the £1261 discrepancy from them giving the car away and threatening court had shut them up and they'd let it be. If push come to shove and anything was owed it was this and I'd pay it.

 

Not a single word after this point. Well over a year until discovering this in the mortgage application.

 

I was told letting them sell the car if I couldn't buy it was the best way to clear what I owe.

that's what I did.

This is the 50% I think you're referring too?

Their words, clear what I owe, sell the car, all done.

Pay the difference if there still outstanding. 

 

Then the letter came saying actually, you still owe us £9 to £10k 

 

I explained if anything was owed at all it would be the difference of £1261 as agreed and as they had given the car away I was prepared to take them to court over this.

 

Deliberately undervaluing it is not in anyone's best interest.

That I would fight it, but push come to shove, if anything was owed, it's that.

 

[dx100uk]

then you did not VT and as usual MB did a VS as it gains them more money.

 

there have been successes whereby MB have rescinded the VS and agreed they should have told the customer about VT.

you could complain.

 

however, as you broke the cardinal rule of if you move you must ALWAYS update your creditors in writing upon your new correct address?

i would be a bit careful here

[Astronomyphilly]

I think I'm beginning to see yes. Not explicitly explaining VT or VS allows them to claim the lot I understand.

The only words were termination and it's the only one I can find I put in writing to them.

 Then the call, and the aforementioned sale etc etc.

 

if someone is eligible to pay half then they completely ignore that and charge the entire balance anyway, hoping we don't have a clue?

 

How is that even allowed, there is a cheaper better alternative to deal with the car yet they just haven't used it.

That's pretty bad they do that.

 

We moved exactly 5 weeks ago now.

As I assumed this was dealt with, no response to that last email, and nothing in over a year why would I feel the need to update them on anything, ever, is my excuse.

 

What would you or others suggest then, how to proceed?

Careful I know but now I'm aware of the year of default payments they've listed, again without a word to me, I've got to deal with it somehow, especially if we want this mortgage.

 

Again, all advice expertise and help is appreciated, very much so .

Phillip

[Will Goodfellow]

It wouldn't make much difference whether you voluntarily terminated or voluntarily surrendered in this case as you would still owe a very similar amount either way, £7k plus.

 

 

[Astronomyphilly]

My understanding and apologies if I'm wrong, is that you'd be liable for half.

With the car fetching £6650 and the discrepancy I've mentioned arguing with them.

Is that not half, £7900.

 

The chap on the phone said the car should fetch near to £8000, would have covered it entirely and they not given it away.

 

Again sorry if I'm misunderstanding something.

Wondering how to proceed now I know about this.

Had we not been applying a mortgage I still wouldn't even be aware of it.

[Will Goodfellow]

With a VT, you would owe 50% of the full outstanding balance of £14209, minus any deposit and payments which you made if any. So if you made no payments or deposit, you would owe £71045 plus £25 for damage and £275 recovery fee - £7404.50 approx.

 

With a VS, you would owe 100% of the outstanding balance of £14209, minus any deposit and payments made, minus the amount which the car made at auction. So if you made no payments or deposit, you would owe £14209 minus £6650 from the sale of the car, plus £52 auction fee, £25 damage and £275 recovery fee - £7911.

 

So depending on how much deposit you made and the amount of any payments, barely any difference, around £500.

 

 

[Astronomyphilly]

I must be missing something but thank you for that.

I've totally misunderstood.

 

with the first paragraph the VT at 50%, the return and sale of the vehicle, whether undervalued or not, is not included in that calculation? Really?

 

I paid a grand and had the car for just over 3 months before the accident. So 3 payments.

[Will Goodfellow]

Yes, with a VT the amount which the car sells for is not deducted from the balance owed. Considering you paid £8500 for the car, £6650 is not a bad price to fetch at auction. I doubt that you have any recourse regarding the sale price of the car unless you have evidence that a higher price was guaranteed.

 

Is there a CCJ for this debt, are you in a position to pay it or make instalments?

Edited October 4, 2020 by Will Goodfellow

[Astronomyphilly]

Nothing.

Just listed and the associated red marks.

No contact in over a year after my last email to them disputing the £1261 difference I mentioned.

 

I assumed that was it, sold the car, covered what I owed at that point ( Ive that in writing) and they'd let it be with me threatening court over them selling the car undervalued.

 

No ccj, no letters, emails, calls. Nothing until we discovered this a day ago.

[Will Goodfellow]

You can request a breakdown of the debt to establish how the final balance was reached, this may provide some grounds to challenge the amount. As far as improving your credit report, you can either pay the debt or make an arrangement to pay which would at least show that the debt is being paid.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Will Goodfellow

[dx100uk]

they can't charge recovery fee on VT unless you live an exceptional distance from place of purchase.

MB always pull this dodge .

 

pers i think you have a VERY good case to raise a serious complaint here.

 

 

[Astronomyphilly]

Thanks for all the info and this, makes interesting reading.

 

I'm just not sure where to start or how to go about this the right way.

The intervening year with absolutely no word from MB regarding anything after the sale etc, only to discover this makes it difficult.

 

I assumed all was well, what I owed at that particular time was paid ( it's in writing) and they'd given up when I threatened court for that difference. 

 

It's nuts they want this much I need to read and get my head around this.

I still don't fully understand my apologies.

 

Again, all advice and possible next steps appreciated whilst I do.

[Will Goodfellow]

Send a SAR request to the finance company requesting all documentation related to the agreement, you can then see if there are any grounds to challenge the balance.

 

However, you would still have a substantial debt even if VT was not explained and you made a successful challenge to the balance on that ground.

 

You mention that you have a letter suggesting what you owed at that time was paid,

can you redact your personal information and post it here?

[Astronomyphilly]

Not really even sure where to start, totally lost with this. 

Is it worth the no doubt endless hassle emails and effort for a small recovery fee?  Them knowing my address and starting to chase up this entirely?  

Really at a loss but thanks guys. Maybe fire an email or letter and see what comes of it.

No ccj or contact in over a year? Is that odd? Has it just slipped through and been forgotten?

On 04/10/2020 at 16:22, Will Goodfellow said:

Send a SAR request to the finance company requesting all documentation related to the agreement, you can then see if there are any grounds to challenge the balance.

However, you would still have a substantial debt even if VT was not explained and you made a successful challenge to the balance on that ground.

You mention that you have a letter suggesting what you owed at that time was paid,

can you redact your personal information and post it here?

Seems pointless yes. What would or could even be successful grounds to challenge it knowing what we do and all I've recalled?

Payments could be possible but I don't have £8k laying around, I wish. Covid 19 has put me on universal credit and part time hours.

The letter stated the balance owed at that time and the chap I spoke with said the sale of the vehicle would cover it. Again, I think this is my missunderstanding from the looks of it.

[dx100uk]

you are unlawfully being charged not far short of an extra £1k because they did not explain ALL the options clearly too you re VT/VS.

go read that PDF in the thread i pointed you too.

 

there is also the aspect of compensation because they failed to treat you fairly. 

 

there are numerous examples of the relevant authorities fining MB in recent times.

[Astronomyphilly]

Thanks, I'll give that a read shortly.

 

I did read and know about the £3 million or so fine they received the beginning of the year yep, something in my favour I guess.

 

I'm just concerned contacting them could lead to all sorts of problems seeing as though it's been this long without a word. They did my but in and were as abusive as could be up until I used the word solicitor and court. Not a word since.

 

I'll give it a read and if you've words on how to proceed, please do and we'll see what comes of this. 

[Will Goodfellow]

Unless you address the debt, it will remain as is on your credit report, and there are generally six years from the date of the agreement ending for the creditor to make a money claim against you in county court which can result in a CCJ, that would appear on your credit report for six years.  A CCJ also gives the creditor enforcement options to recover the debt.

 

It appears that you voluntarily surrendered but this is unconfirmed by you. Where that's the case and you were not informed you could have voluntarily terminated instead, and that would have been cheaper, you have grounds to challenge the balance owed as dx100uk mentions.

 

It will take some effort on your behalf if you want to try to reduce the amount owed. The first step would be a sar to the creditor to obtain all of the relevant information required to challenge it.

 

Don't pay it and it could eventually be statute barred and become unenforceable or you could receive a money claim before it's statute barred. You could also make an arrangement to pay it, it could benefit you to challenge the amount owed if you decide to do that.

Edited October 4, 2020 by Will Goodfellow

[dx100uk]

MB always makeup their own rules as they go along and have a very long history (some +200 threads here) of it.

 

they are also masters of abusing and mugging their customers.

 

VS is not covered by the very important rules and regulations covered by the consumer credit act upon their conduct.

VT is under at least section 99 which specifically dictates what they can and cannot charge.

 

the very fact that they did not inform you of your legal right under the CCA to VT is alone a very serious complaint.

 

[Astronomyphilly]

Thanks for the response. It needs dealing with and figuring out now, I can't just wait and hope nothing further comes of it. We intend to buy a home in the next 6 months, so I need to do something.

 

Looking like some sort of informal arrangement and challenging the amount and fees is the way to go? 

 

I have no idea whether it was VT or VS it seems. Certainly somewhat uninformed even if the cheaper alternative would only be by the £500 you pointed out.

 

How does one go about this, challenging it. Email, write a letter, solicitor etc?

 

I agree with the abuse and mugging, absolutely mate.

How serious a complaint is that, should I address that directly with them or elsewhere too?

 

Again thank you all for the help, be lost without.

Just need a hand acting on it.

[dx100uk]

you complaint MB that they totally neglected to inform you of your right to VT under the CCA during the period of you wanting to give the car back and thus your associated consumer rights involved within,

You railroaded me, often by being extremely abusive etc etc over the phone into a Voluntary Surrender and its associated increased debt.

you DEMAND these issues are investigated and relevant compensation issued as you have see MB have been fined numerous times by the authorities etc etc.

[theoldrouge]

Your complaint will be based around the FCA Principles for Business 

https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/PRIN/2/1.html

in particular PRIN 6 and 7

 

Read the link below, although not applicable directly to your agreement, it tells you why Moneybarn were censored and fined by the FCA , and will give you an idea on how to approach and formulate your complaint 

https://www.fca.org.uk/publication/final-notices/moneybarn-limited-2020.pdf

 

[Astronomyphilly]

Thank you, both.

 

So a strongly worded letter based around all the above is the place to start? Is there a template or anything in particular I should mention in it.

 

I don't know if any you happen to have better address, email to send it and a copy to rather than the standard customer service line, or would that do.

 

Again, thank you very much. I'll keep things updated

[dx100uk]

you should never ever use email on any debts.

send it to their registered office on the FCA register.

 

we've already told you what to write above.

look through that pdl ...circle the bits that makes you say 'hey thats me and how they treated me!', stitch it together , use royal mail ONLY by 1st and free proof of posting from any PO counter is all you need.