VCS PCN - NTK - Nicol Street, Kirkcaldy Scotland KY11 1NY

[mcnato]

Good morning

 

Before I ignore the letter and await the raft of future letters,

can I just ask,

if in light of the Transport (Scotland) Bill 2019, is there still no requirement for the Registered Keeper to identify the driver? 

 

Other things where I believe VCS Ltd haven't helped themselves are:

 

Date of contravention was early Sep,

they issued it mid Sep and

I as the Registered Keeper received it 01 Oct. 

Longer than 14 days from date of contravention to issue date and definitely longer than 14 days from contravention to the NTK letter. 

Contravention happened at night so no windscreen ticket.

 

The post code used in the letter for address of the car park is different to the one used to identify the car park on the signs at the car park

 

Signs at the car park mention Excel but the NTK is from VCS (I understand that the two are linked. 

A sign says 'you, the driver are entering into a contract with VCS'

hence the query about any change for the Registered Keeper having to legally identify thr driver.

 

Cheers

[FTMDave]

The "14 day rule" is pretty irrelevant in your case as you're in Scotland and the POFA doesn't apply.  Whether they respect the timescale or not, they can't create keeper liability.  As long as you don't tell them who was driving, they're stuffed!

 

I'm afraid I know nothing about the Transport (Scotland) Bill 2019 - but I'm sure they'll be someone on shortly who does.

 

The best thing going for you is the VCS/Excel mix up.  They are both owned by the same crook, but they're completely separate legal entities, with no link whatsoever.  If the signs mention Excel then your contract is with Excel, VCS have no claim on you at all.  Don't tell them about the mix up though, let them keep digging their own hole!

 

Is Inverkeithing local to you?  If so it would be very useful if you could go back and photograph the signs.

[mcnato]

Thanks FTMDave

 

I've not replied to them at all, as I've just received the PCN in the post. 

 

I have already photographed the sign at the entrance which says Excel and the one at the ticket machine that says you, the driver, agree to entering a contract with VCS (although there is an Excel logo on it as well)

 

Apologies the post code for the car park is KY1 1NY in Kirkcaldy

[dx100uk]

you are in scotland

there is no tort of trespass

there is no POFA.

 

you ignore them totally

until/unless you ever get a letter of claim.

 

however give us a laugh and please complete this:

 

 

 

 

[mcnato]

For course dx100uk, here you go

 

For PCN's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

(must be received within 14 days from the Incident)

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement

04/09/2020

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

21/09/2020
 

[scan up BOTHSIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

3 Date received

01/10/2020
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

No
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes.  Entry and exit photos which only show the front and rear number plates and lights, as the event took place at night.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

No
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Vehicle Control Services Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Nicol Street Car Park, Kirkcaldy, KY1 1NY (but signage shows the postcode for the car park as KY1 1LU)
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Independent Appeals Service (IAS)
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

[dx100uk]

page 2 unredacted removed pdf

 

dx

 

[dx100uk]

they are out of time

they had 14 days for an ANPR capture to send the NTK

 

there are doubts upon who the company who manages the CP really is VCS/excel

this has lost simple simon so many cases already but ofcourse these were not scottish ones but in E&W

 

you are in scotland..

 

 

[mcnato]

Thanks dx100uk

 

I had a read over those threads, but just wanted to check to the Registered Keeper bit as I know they can bring bits of an Act in and not all of it.  Many thanks for your help.

 

Cheers

[dx100uk]

they are out of time.

 

do not converse in any way.

 

 

[mcnato]

Just in case it helps you/anyone.  This is the sign at the entrance.

And this is the one at the ticket machine

[dx100uk]

which clarifies the point already found

paperwork is from VCS signs are excel..oppss!!

 

PDF only next time please

put them ALL in ONE PDF with the properly redacted NTK

read upload carefully

[lookinforinfo]

VCS has only got one thing going for them and that is you and your worrying.

Going against VCS is

 

1] it happened in Scotland

 

2] VCS do not have the contract to issue PCN's because Excel has the contract with the landowner

 

3]

 

4] the keeper of your vehicle is not liable for the invoice only the driver and they do not know who they are

 

5] the sign at the entrance should show their terms and conditions as it doesn't what they would be offering if they had a contract with you at [which they don't] is an invitation to treat

 

6] their stipulation that you have only 5 minutes to pay is wrong. You have 10 minutes to decide if you want to stay in their own Code of Conduct.

 

7] probably the most damning reason is on their second sign inside the car park. It has already been decided in Court that the only terms that have to be adhered to are those in the marked off place that states "Terms and Conditions". Nowhere there does it say that if you breach any of those terms you have to pay anything let alone £100.

 

No doubt other reasons will turn up over the next few weeks probably including how much they want to charge.

 

Even without any more, there are sufficient reasons for you to keep your bawbees in your pocket and ignore everything they and their debt collectors send you.

 

There is more chance that you could survive on the surface of the sun than they have of proving that you owe them anything. Now carry on living your life knowing that despite whatever threats they use they are all useless.

 

I cannot believe that as greedy and stupid as they are, that they will compound it by sending you a Letter of Claim.

 

On the slim chance that they do come back let us know so we can tell them that foxtrot and oscar together would be the recommended approach.

[mcnato]

Thanks for all those points lookinforinfo

 

Although I can assure you I am not worried.  Just checking if there'd been any update on the Registered Keeper thing. I look forward to reading their letters and filing them for posterity. 

 

Apologies dx100uk

 

The sign images were just an afterthought in case they may be useful. 

[lookinforinfo]

The signs were a big help for your case. There were at least three things on them that individually are fatal for VCS to have a chance of winning against you.

[mcnato]

Just an update to this, I received a letter (Demand for payment before Court Action) from a solicitors in Glasgow.  They state they've been instructed to raise sheriff court proceedings if the payment (£100 PCN plus £60 debt recovery fee) is not paid in 7 days from the latter date.  Funnily enough, they used the Carly Mackie case as a reference.  Is this the time for a snotty letter?

[dx100uk]

Doubt it

But scan it up to pdf please

[mcnato]

Here you go

Demand for Payment Letter.pdf

[dx100uk]

She had 200 speculative invoices against her and totally screwed up defending the claim from long before it got that far

 

IT wasnt any land mark ruling.

 

im tempted to reply

bUt thats not a letter of claim

 

if i instruct my dog to sit ...if it does it a totally different matter

[mcnato]

Thanks dx, I'll put the snotty letter on hold for now.

[mcnato]

It seems the email address for a SAR to the DVLA in the sticky is out of date.  I submitted one using that email and received a reply saying that it was incorrect and that I should send it to [email protected].  Having used the new email I received a standard automated reply of acknowledgement.  

[mcnato]

SAR returned by letter from DVLA (so the above email does work). 

 

VCS Ltd being the enquirer. 

Date of request 18//09/2020. 

Date of event 04/09/2020

[mcnato]

Although I will be submitting another request as DVLA haven't stated when they responded to VCS with the information.  18th was a Friday,  VCS say they posted the letter on Mon 21th.  Seeing how this SAR has taken this long, I doubt the DVLA went all out to clear the request over the weekend, but we'll see.

[dx100uk]

open

[mcnato]

As requested.  Since the last letter from the solicitors in Dec 2020 (read and ignored), I've heard nothing since.  The two invoices, solicitors letter and SAR from the DVLA are sitting in a file in case I have to use them...one day.