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Just Cash Flow PLC business bank personal guarantee Court Claim.


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Hi,

 

We had to close our business in march 2020- and as expected people called in their personal guarantees, with some help and minimal legal advice, we dealt with a settled a few - some still to go. Most creditors have been easy enough to communicate and deal with. But one!

 

They ignored pre action protocol,and immediately issued county court claim for nearly £30,000 in April- during full lock down- dont reason, or negotiate etc- have been very aggressive.

 

Most importantly to date, is that it appears they dont have a personal guarantee as they have not provided complete signed paperwork- so statute of frauds

and what they have produced is only signed on behalf of the company etc- parts missing, used my husband so Etridge principles etc

 

They were offered a good will payment - immediately rejected and want me to sign a tomlin order which i refused- as i see this as a weakness in their case.

Ive met any court timetables to date on AOS and defence, but could really do with help, opinions

 

 

Can anyone help? 

 

 

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so their claim is stayed?

 

dx

 

did you sent them a CPR 31:14?

 

please complete this:

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/357877-you-have-received-a-court-claim-issued-in-england-wales-what-you-need-to-do/

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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ok - please can admin approve my last post as took ages to write ?? pleeeease

 

Also- directions questionnaire due tomorrow-

so my case is proposed to go the fast track even though over £25k 

should i accept this or ask for multi track as it buys alot more time before hearings 1-2 years - or are the cost risks massive

 

what costs would a losing party pay in fast track as opposed to multi track? thanks 

 

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Name of the Claimant ?

Just Cash Flow PLC

 

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

11/06/2020 date of service (issued april but covid delayed service)

AOS on time 18/06/2020 and Defence done on time 29/06/2020

 

 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? Please type out their particulars of claim in full (verbatim) less any identifiable data and round the amounts up/down.

1. The claimant provided a loan facility available to XXXXX Ltd (The company) on the 11th june 2019 in the sum of £25,000 over a period of one year with interest payable at 1.75% per month

2. The offer of the loan was made available to the company on the understanding that the defendants would personally guarantee the borrowing. The first defendant signed the loan agreement on the 11 June 2019 and the second defendant signed the loan agreement on the 17th June 2019.

3. It was expressly agreed between the company and the claimant that the company would continue to trade and the account would be kept within the agreed limit.

4. The claimant has recieved notice that the company has gone into liquidation and the account now exceeds the agreed limit.

5. There have been breaches of the loan agreement which entitles the claimant to pursue the defendants under the terms of the personal guarantee to the loan.

6. All sums were demanded from the defendants by way of letters dated 03/03/2020 and this demand remains unpaid.

7. The defendants have failed to make the payments demanded and therefore:

 

THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS-

1. The sum of £27,395.07

2. Interest pursuant to the contractual rate of 0.058% per day from the date of issue to the date of judgement or earlier by agreement of payment or in the alternative statutory interest pursuant  to the county court act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum which amounts to £6 per day .

3. Costs

 

What is the total value of the claim?

£28,864.82
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ?

They provided a pre action protocol pack - but did not await its return- i have correspondance from them confirming the sent claim to court April before it was due back in  , and did not await return or respond to document requests ( i sent a letter to them highlighting all their breaches for records)
 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred?

No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address?

n/a

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account?

unregulated business overdraft -revolving account
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ?

after
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ?

via emails - use broker funding options- have emails where i requested no lending with personal guarantees, broker said he would negotiate out of contracts 
 

no

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim.

original creditor
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment?

n/a
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor?

termination notice to company
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ?

no
 

Why did you cease payments?

nov 2019
 

What was the date of your last payment?

?
 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved?

did all the usual complaints procedures- 
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan?

We sent Income  and expenditure and bankruptcy SOFA and spoke to debt charities as all listed in pack they did not await return of or respond to 
 

yes i have done SAR and CPR 31.14- they refused to answer CPR 31.14 it we didnt wet sign the bottom!!!- so couldn't get docs before defence

i think it was a delay tactic as they have now sent ( weeks later)

We could do with some help from you.

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No you keep to Fast Track.....are you familiar with the N181 and how to complete it ?

 

Andy

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it is being complete for me by a professional - i am advising to keep to fast track - hopefully the courts are backedup anyways 

and hearing still along way off- 

thanks for putting mt post back 

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Okay but please post a copy of it here before submitting......

We could do with some help from you.

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And a redacted copy of your defence would also be useful.....

We could do with some help from you.

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redacted -Official Defence xxxxxxxxJCF butchers claim form.docx

 

its a long one (defence)- my husbands is similar 

main points - we used a broker i have communications saying no pgs no debentures

 

we finally were accepted by claimant- they sent an 'offer letter'- i signed ( my husband did not as far was we can remember as hes nothing to do with operating my business) they cannot provide a copy of offer letter signed by him.

 

then afterwards they sent a 'loan agreement' which they only copy they can provide is a pre typed e signature on docusign by my husband apparently signed only 'on behalf of xxxx ltd ' so not signed in a personal capacity at all- but IP address is scotland near their offices in lanarkshire not our IP address down south england and we would have been home as certificate of completion says 11.25pm signed

CPR 31.14 and SAR has failed to provide a signed 'loan offer' letter by husband 

and 'loan agreement' signed by myself 

no deed of guarantee done or provided as per their loan offer letter stating in in execution section.

 

To be clear what they are trying to say is 'loan offer' is us signing a guarantee as its appendixed to loan agreement 

but no 'loan offer' for husband and no 'loan agreement for me 

 

they are saying 'loan offer' and 'loan agreement' = one contract so can use my signature from offer as a personal guarantee signature  for the agreement! and they dont need a DOGI. why write one in the execution if not required to be done .

 

hope not to confusing for you all

 

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Why didnt you simply reply stating i signed no personal guarantee. The claimant has failed to provide one to date.

 

Imho there was no need for any of that war and peace defence

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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fair point- i just didn't want missing docs to be my only defence, as if they could provide one, my battle would be different

 

 

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On the DQ

 

B your Local County Court because you are the litigant defendant...not because its easier to travel to.

 

D2 its Fast Track because the value is over £10 K not because of the nature of the case..the nature of the case could quite eaisly be dispensed with in Small Claims Track.

 

D  3 is not applicable to Fast Track.

D  4 is applicable you require full disclosure of all the original documents that the claimants claim relies upon

 

F Witnesses is your self/husband so 1/2

 

G Will be less than 1 day...say 4 hours

 

I. I would leave blank...this is for allocation purposes only not a further defence.

 

J. You must draft on a separate sheet your proposed directions for how the claim will proceed and attach to the N181

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks - I shall amend 

is there a very basic way of doing the draft proposals ? 
otherwise just copy and paste the others sides , with a few longer dates / amendments?

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Have they served proposed directions ?  If you agree there is no need for you to do it also...if you wish to amend/add you must do it in agreement with the claimant.

 

You must stress and request the inclusion of the original signed PG and the credit agreement.

 

Here is an example of draft directions in accordance with CPR 28 (3.5/3.6)

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part28/pd_part28#3.1

 

 

 

 

image.png

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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All done- i guess i just sit back and wait?

I have requested multiple times now for docs- and they have confirmed they hold no more 

documents than the SAR response , and i wonder if that was maybe the reason they offered a tomlin order

even before DQ were done (which i refused).

Also they have placed unilateral notices for the same debt on two of my properties- my home and a rental

i have done UN4 to land registry and they objected to removal, as gave a copy of loan agreement only signed by company

 

i have wrote back to land registry and said look at contract, no personal signatures, no guarantees under statute of frauds you must remove as this is a company not a personal debt , but its being very difficult for them to listen to me, ive said same debt to multiple properties is abuse of process etc

 

any advice?

the claimant has done everything they can to apply immense aggressive pressure and i do believe its to scare me into paying

(which wont happen ) as there case has flaws, rather than see this in court.

 

Do you recommend the use of barristers?

 

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well they will have to disclose the signed personal guarantee at the witness statement - disclosures stage .

how can a business register a UN on commercial and private properties in your name with said document?

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Have you been served a copy of the claimants DQ and draft directions ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

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I don’t know how - there is a clause in the contract about an equitable charge- but as I said - only copy is signed  by company only 

 

a separate legal entity who doesn’t have the consent to use another’s property - with out a pg or personal signature 

 

and no I haven’t been served their DQ yet 

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i received the DQ from the other side over the weekend- no suprises. They are still requesting their local court which is in wales!

but im assuming defendant usually always gets the court they request- especially as there are two of us.

 

original statement sent with letter before Action was £25906.83 to claim

 

but actual court claim thousands larger- no itemised amount or explanation of the 'fees' added on this new statement

one fee looks exactly same amount as court fee- so basically want to include in claim and add on top again as court costs

 

 

 

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but im assuming defendant usually always gets the court they request- especially as there are two of us.

 

Litigant Defendants court always...irrelevant of how many defendants.

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We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Have they proposed directions ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

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Are you going to scan redact and upload them here ?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Just Cash Flow PLC business bank personal guarantee Court Claim.

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