Just Cash Flow PLC business bank personal guarantee Court Claim.

[MOSS 41]

really want to start budgeting what could be costs in case 

 

fast track - what is a ball park of what their legal fees might be ? when do these have to be paid?

i havesettlement offers subject to costs already made to show judge, their many pre action breaches etc and refusal of ADR-i dont think they will charge anything reasonable, so will have to contest their costs

 

is there an example cost claiming form for myself and fees ive incurred to fill out and lodge with court before hearing

 

i want an idea because the various eventualities in order of best to worst are

a) i win and they pay my costs

b)they win but i dont have to pay their costs

c)they win and i have to pay their costs

[AndyOrch]

In fast track cases, the court’s power to award trial costs is limited in accordance with CPR Part 45 Section VI.

 

Where the value of the claim does not exceed £3,000 the trial costs which the court may award will be £485. Where the value of the claim is more than £3,000 but not more than £10,000 the trial costs are £690. Where the value of the claim is more than £10,000 but not more than £15,000 the trial costs are £1,035; and where the value of the claim is more than £15,000 (for claims issued on or after 6 April 2009) the trial costs are £1,650.

 

The court may not award more or less than those amounts unless it decides not to award any trial costs or the circumstances set out in CPR 45.39 apply. The court has the power to apportion the amount awarded between the parties to reflect their respective degrees of success on the issues at trial (CPR 45.38(2)).

 

The exceptional cases in which higher costs may be ordered are set out in CPR 45.39. These cover additional legal representatives, separate trials, litigants in person, counterclaims and unreasonable or improper behaviour.

 

Where a fast track case settles before the start of the trial and the court is assessing the amount of costs to be allowed in respect of a party’s advocate for preparing for trial, it may not allow an amount exceeding the amount of fast track trial costs which would have been payable had the trial taken place (CPR 46.12).

Excerpt from the Senior Courts Costs Office Guide 2021

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/senior-courts-costs-office-guide

[MOSS 41]

hi, 

thanks i understand the fixed fee court cost, but its the disbursements they can claim, i find it confusing what disbursements they might claim

 

for instance its a 28k claim , claimant in house LLB drafted all docs and another  solicitor put his covering sheet on before sending it 

 

will the costs schedule they submit before hearing be 5k, 10k, etc 

[MOSS 41]

just checked with court, theyve paid the hearing fee, and 

they reminded me its still down as an attended hearing and block listed, 

so does this mean, it might not happen that day 

 

i have a barrister to do all my arguing in court, what if it doesnt happen,

i lose all his fees for that day because of the courts?

 

not to mention (not that i care) other side coming from 2 hours away in wales

[AndyOrch]

20 hours ago, MOSS 41 said:

hi, 

thanks i understand the fixed fee court cost, but its the disbursements they can claim, i find it confusing what disbursements they might claim

 

for instance its a 28k claim , claimant in house LLB drafted all docs and another  solicitor put his covering sheet on before sending it 

 

will the costs schedule they submit before hearing be 5k, 10k, etc 

 

 

https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal-information/accident-claims/what-are-disbursements.html

[MOSS 41]

an ideas on chances of my hearing not going ahead as in a block listing ?

i have emailed court to see how many listed, but i cant afford to lose counsel fees, by being 'bumped' on the day

 

is it usual that the other side seem completely blinkered, charging ahead with this arrogant belief the will win in seconds?

 

it unnerves me , i have all my advice as it not being enforcable under so many reasons etc , this has been disclosed when trying to negotiate settlements ( met with a sharp no every time)-yet they appear completely unfazed 

 

what am i missing is this just a tactic right to the end to see if ill break?

[AndyOrch]

Quote

an ideas on chances of my hearing not going ahead as in a block listing ?

 

I wasn't aware they were trialling block listings in County Courts...Magistrates yes.....so I cant really advise......what as your Barrister said ?

[MOSS 41]

ive sent over the court communication to him for advice , i dont want justice not served because im rushed through on a conveyor belt, or not at all and wasted counsel fees

[MOSS 41]

great news barrister rolls over fees, if court adjourned on the day 

 

bank to SJ, 

been advised to put in an application to strike out claim (so it can be heard at same time as the SJ hearing)as no legal basis for cause of action,

 

 

hearing is in 24/2/2021, so its late in the day but i think will help put it to bed.

 

reason being, 

not defined as a guarantor, as a seperate agreement was required, they have confirmed they dont hold

not signed in a personal capacity- signed as 'director for and on behalf of'

which means no case can be brought under s4 of Statute of Frauds 1677, so case should be struck out.

 

Section 4 of the Statute of Frauds 1677 provides that an action may not be brought on the following types of contracts unless there is a written note or memorandum signed by the party being charged or a person authorised by them:

 

Contracts by the executor of a will to pay a debt of the estate with his own money.

Contracts in which one party becomes a surety (acts as guarantor) for another party's debt or other obligation. Contracts in consideration of marriage.

Contracts for the transfer of an interest in land.

Contracts that cannot be performed within one year.

 

 

so ive done and N244, can i just apply without notice to otherside so the fee is only £100? and email to court today

will it be refused ? do i have enough time, if it is refused to pay balance of £155 for processing?

can the other side object so it doesnt get heard?

 

as the other option is await outcome of SJ and then do it

[AndyOrch]

This is claim 2 with SJ hearing ?

 

Application to strike out requires notice and will require a hearing...unless you can get it heard at the same time as their SJ hearing.

 

I personally would wait the outcome of their hearing for SJ...save yourself £100/£255

[MOSS 41]

Yes I’m inclined to agree , and do one thing at a time 

[MOSS 41]

hi i need to do a costs form for the SJ hearing on the 24th and 

one for the trial 5 march

 

 

do i just fill out form N260

 

with solicitor hours charged

my LIP hours 

and barrister attendance and prep fee  on these forms and send in?

 

then see what gets awarded to what party?

[AndyOrch]

Forms N260 Summary Assessment  are really for use by solicitors, paralegals and other fee earners...although LIP can use it...I would suggest a more informal Bill of Costs which is required should it get to a Detailed Assessment. 

 

Recent changes PD 51 Statement of Costs for Summary Assessment.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part51/practice-direction-51x-new-statement-of-costs-for-summary-assessment-pilot

[MOSS 41]

thanks, 

it just seem you got punished for not putting costs in before hearing, 

 

although order for SJ hearing is 

anything you rely on to be given 5 days before hearing to all parties electonically -no mention of costs?

 

would they have mentioned costs if i needed to do a schedule?

 

i have placed WS and evidence with amended defence attached with the court today , as it is 5 clear days unless previous orders says different , but CPR says 7 days prior

 

so to be on the safeside, i did today, 

 

what is the latest i can give to other side, as they still havent provided evidence in the 7 days and if i email copy today they will have time to put it in.

they are really funny about service by email, so they make me email and photocopy and send (wasting my money and time)  but the order is electronically only or sanctions-

so can i just email only, they can photocopy their own

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

You can file a Bill of Costs 3 days pre hearing...with regards to the SJ hearing.....should you successfully get it dismissed...simply request costs from the judge in dealing with the application..he will award a costs order

[MOSS 41]

im going to submit a skeletal argument for the SJ, just to quote the case law and why it applies 

 

its drafted but i see it done in two ways 

 

i have done it with case law summaries from internet exhibited to it 

but i think it looks unprofessional,

can i just list a reading list instead and not attach anything onlyl stating the issues with reference to the case only?

 

it looks patronising to send a copy of a case to a judge, 

[AndyOrch]

Skeleton arguments do not normally contain exhibits...that's for your witness statement.

 

Skeletons are usually just a list of bullet points for easy reference for yourself and the judge.

[MOSS 41]

ok that makes life easier , do i just send or do i have to agree to exchange

i dont get the impression they are doing anything but waiting for this SJ

unaware they even failed to lodge evidence with the application.

 

i would rather after putting in 

WS

Skeleton argument 

costs 

 

just sit back and see what they do 

but obviously i have to serve them , if i serve a skeleton arguement without agreeing exchange them 

they get an advantage

 

i hate emailing them hes horrible and spiteful in his tone when i do 

 

 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

It is expected to serve a copy on the claimant..you dont have to agree or seek permission or exchange...file it as late as possible... Most courts require the skeleton arguments to be filed by 10.00am the day before the hearing.

[MOSS 41]

Court order is anything you rely on 5 days before ( but I read that as excluding weekends so really it’s 7 days and if it’s not day of filing 8 days )

that’s why did WS today 

 

when I asked

court clerk about skeleton arguments , she said they judge said I could file one if I wished but do it at least 5 days before ( didn’t specify clear days etc - as done over email ) 

 

im worried the other side file one later two days before in response and the it’s all allowed , whereas I was informed 5 days before 

 

 

[AndyOrch]

Statement is not a Court Order...its a direction.......Skeleton Arguments ...well Ive already covered that..but if you wish to go with a court clerk.

[MOSS 41]

Is it two clear days ? Or just two days ?
 

as hearing next Wednesday , so would Monday be too late 

does it need to be Friday I filed costs and skeleton ? Or Monday acceptable 

[AndyOrch]

Quote

 Most courts require the skeleton arguments to be filed by 10.00am the day before the hearing.

 

[MOSS 41]

Ok , 

I think I’m panicking far too much , 

 

other side hasn’t done anything - there no contracts lodged at courts , evidence bundle they refer to in their WS with application Missing - no contracts served with claim form either (Checked with court again couple of days ago) 

 

I was never served the application , at all , had to get from court - otherwise I wouldn’t have a clue 

 

they need to give the court 
contract on what they are claiming and evidence bundle ‘PR1’ In electronic format 

 

by 5 clear days - (today) on me and the court if they want to rely on it 

 

 

if the court gives a direction of file and serve anything you rely 5 clear days before hearing 

 

does that overrule cpr 7 day direction for evidence to be relied on in summary judgement ?

 

i have filed and served 15/2 for hearing 

24/2 

 

so I would like to think I’m covered either way 

 

but otherside not done it?

 

 

do they have to do a trial bundle for an SJ ?

for the hearing 

[AndyOrch]

5 hours ago, MOSS 41 said:

Ok , 

I think I’m panicking far too much , 

 

other side hasn’t done anything - there no contracts lodged at courts , evidence bundle they refer to in their WS with application Missing - no contracts served with claim form either (Checked with court again couple of days ago) 

 

I was never served the application , at all , had to get from court - otherwise I wouldn’t have a clue 

 

they need to give the court  contract on what they are claiming and evidence bundle ‘PR1’ In electronic format 

 

by 5 clear days - (today) on me and the court if they want to rely on it 

Incorrect....

 

(2) If the applicant wishes to rely on written evidence in reply, he must –

(a) file the written evidence; and

(b) serve a copy on the respondent,

at least 3 days before the summary judgment hearing.

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part24

Quote

 

 

if the court gives a direction of file and serve anything you rely 5 clear days before hearing 

 

does that overrule cpr 7 day direction for evidence to be relied on in summary judgement ?

 

i have filed and served 15/2 for hearing  24/2   so I would like to think I’m covered either way  but otherside not done it?

 

(See above its 3 days)  SJ applications are governed by CPR 24.. a completely different procedure ...not CPR 7 

 

do they have to do a trial bundle for an SJ ?

for the hearing 

No..... evidence is normally filed with their statement and application notice n244 or sep pre 3 days hearing ...Summary Judgment hearings are not trials