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    • So I had my mediation with Hermes and it was not successful i.e. we couldn't come to an agreement to settle out of court.   This was my mediation process:   First call from the mediator was received at 1:03pm which was close enough to the start of my alotted time of 1pm-4:30pm. The mediator introduced themselves, confirmed the intention of the mediation and asked if I could provide a short summary of my claim and any points I would like to raise with Hermes. I mentioned the claim amount and raised the argument that Hermes inherit the liability under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act even though I booked through Packlink and that there is a systemic problem with Hermes and their business model. The mediator said they will take this to them and call back after discussing with Hermes. Call ended 1:09pm (lasted 6 minutes).   Second call from the mediator was received at 1:15pm and they said that Hermes' stance is that my contract was with Packlink and not with them. Hermes mentioned they had investigated with Packlink and that I did not pay for insurance for my item but they were willing to offer me the standard claim amount of £25 plus £2.86 postage = £27.86. Of course I did not entertain that offer and I said that the whole point of having to pay extra to insure my item against their own negligence is absurd. Hermes also stated that this item was on Packlink's prohibited list. I replied that this so called list was not made clear to me when listing my item on ebay or purchasing the label through Packlink (which is ebay's affiliated choice for purchasing postage) and I would bring up the whole question of prohibited items for consideration by the judge if it goes to court. The mediator asked what I would be willing to settle at. I said I am not willing to budge from my claim amount of £357.84 which includes court costs. They reminded me that they don't see Hermes willing to accept that and that the whole point of mediation is to be willing to be flexible. I stood firm and said I am not budging from this amount and that I am being flexible by not taking Hermes to court and willing to settle now. The mediator said they will discuss with Hermes and call back. Call ended 1:27pm (lasted 12 minutes).   The third call from the mediator was received at 1:32pm and they mentioned that Hermes were willing to offer £300 as a goodwill gesture plus the £2.86 postage costs = £302.86. They said £300 is the maximum they can offer to settle for this process. I stayed resolute and asserted I am not willing to go any lower than my claim amount. I said it's not so much about the money and reiterated that the routine denial of liability and having to pay extra for insurance is a systemic issue with Hermes and that I have evidence that many other customers face the same problem when using Hermes which I am willing to present to the presiding judge if this goes to court. Only if they were willing to pay me back the full claim amount then I would drop the case. The mediator did mention that taking this to court I may also lose which would mean losing further court fees (£55 I believe they mentioned as the fee) as well as time and effort in preparing for the case. I repeated that paying the extra costs and risking the money is not so much of an issue to me. I also added in there that a national newspaper are sniffing around at this story and if a judgement goes against them then I won't hesitate to share with them and across social media a copy of the transcript. The mediator asked if they were happy to share this detail to Hermes which I agreed. They said they will discuss with Hermes and call me back. Call ended 1:36pm (lasted 4 minutes).    Received the fourth and final call from the mediator at 1:39pm and they said that Hermes were not willing to improve on the offer, reiterating they would argue to the judge that my contract is not with them and is with Hermes so this case cannot be settled through the mediation process and I would receive further details on the next steps. Call ended 1:40pm (last 1 minute).   I am somewhat surprised that Hermes were willing to offer up to £300 plus postage costs given their arguments but would not settle by offering my full claim costs.   In terms of the mediator's attitude, they did add a bit of pressure in trying to get me to be flexible i.e. settle for a lower amount. I suppose it is their job to get this settled out of court. They did also mention on a couple of occasions that it may be months before this case is looked at, with the covid situation it may not be in person and that I would have to go through the motions and prepare which would take time and effort on my behalf. However as noted above in this thread I wasn't willing to settle for a lower amount so let's see how it plays in court.   Any advice on the next steps BankFodder?  
    • all uploaded images merged and vastly reduced in size full DQ above.   you should have room now to upload the rest of the required docs but not all single pages please!   dx  
    • woe slow down put them ALL in ONE multipage PDf please   use pdfreducer and merge pdf if you have too.   cant be here all day downloading single pages. read upload carefully   claim no in 1st page removed. dx  
    • UK transport secretary aims for a new air traveller testing regime, but BA boss is sceptical. View the full article
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    • Dazza a few months ago I discovered a good friend of mine who had ten debts with cards and catalogues which he was slavishly paying off at detriment to his own family quality of life, and I mean hardship, not just absence of second holidays or flat screen TV's.
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Caravan from leisure caravans - riddled with issues - Advantage Finance cancelled agreement and have the Van but will not refund Payments/repair costs sighting 12mts ownership/use as the reason - Court Time?

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By the way, is the dealer https://www.leisurecaravans.com/

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Okay, I suggest that you phone Baileys of Bristol and make some casual enquiries.

Tell them that you are interested in buying a second-hand caravan – given the make and model number. Tell them that it seems to be in quite good condition but you are interested in knowing what the price would have been new and how long would they normally expect their caravans to last if they were properly maintained. Ask them what they think the resale value of 2011 caravan might be now.

See if they can let you have a copy of a brochure for that model. They may will have one in PDF format.

What we are trying to do is find out the value you have had – if any from your ownership of this caravan for one year. It seems to me that you had no value – and I'm wondering whether in fact you might be out of pocket stop

Also, you need to understand particular kinds of action you can take.

You could decide to make a complaint against the finance company to the financial ombudsman service. This would be completely risk-free – but would take quite a long time with a very uncertain outcome because the FOS is limp wristed and far too cosy with the finance industries. On the other hand, against this kind of finance company they may be more prepared to be assertive – unlike with the bank where they would tend to be biased towards the bank – in my view.

The alternative is to take a small claim in the County Court. This would be very assertive. You would incur some fees – probably about £300 all told, which you would get back if you one. This would send a real warning shot across the bow is of the finance company and I suspect that they would rather pay up then go to court. However they might push you to a hearing and if you won the hearing, then you would get your money back plus interest plus all your costs. My view is that you would probably win and I hope that you would get everything back because it seems to me that you have had no benefit from this contract.
However, can you tell us of any use/enjoyment you have had from the caravan.

Phone Baileys tomorrow

Where are you in the country? I understand that the dealer is in Durham

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I had already raised a complaint with the ombudsman the same date I informed leisure caravans of the problem, however as yet still have not heard from them.


the three outings we had were ruined as the hot water wouldn’t work nor would the heating. My daughter has chronic lung disease so needs warmth etc 


this is what cost us £700 to fix 


I live right near leisure caravans and ok I’ll call baileys and update tomorrow 

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When you raised your complaint with the ombudsman, had you already complained to the finance company and received their final decision?

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Yes their final decision at that point was to let the leisure caravans repair it 


I did not want it repaired as it was not fit for purpose hence why I involved ombudsman. However when I realised how long it would take for the ombudsman to get back to me and upon reading the credit act etc I knew I had to give them chance to repair before I could reject 

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Well you could have gone directly to court.

It's up to you know whether you want to wait for the ombudsman or go to court. Maybe will be a good idea to contact the ombudsman and see what's happening and see what their timescale is.

At least you haven't got the caravan sitting in your driveway so it's just a question of money and so you might think that it is worth waiting a bit.

Please could you post up a copy of the complaint which you sent the ombudsman

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I can’t provide the complaint as it was filled in online and submitted in text boxes if that makes sense. 

I can’t afford at the moment to go to court so I will await the ombudsman help firstly. I am pleased I am no longer financially attached to the credit agreement etc But feel upset at the amount of loss we have endured and Stress. I really thought we would have gotten something back out of all this 

I tried calling the ombudsman today but they said they could not answer my call due to COVID 19

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Okay. Well telephone Baileys and get the information that I've asked for.

Even though you fill in online forms, you should take screenshots of what you are sending. This stuff is quite important. Phone the FOS tomorrow and see what their timescale is.

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My view is that you made a contract for an item which was not of satisfactory quality and it is clear from the evidence even of the finance company's own inspector that it was not of satisfactory quality when you bought it.

In contract law, if an item is so unsatisfactory that you are effectively deprived of the entire benefit of the contract then the contract should be treated as void and you should recover all of your money and any ancillary expenses.

It seems to me that you had no enjoyment at all from this caravan during your period of ownership. I think it's outrageous that the finance company are apparently say that because you've had it for a year before they eventually – and grudgingly – agreed that it should be returned, that you should effectively pay for a years usage. At the very worst, it should be said that you only had usage of it from the moment you took delivery to the date of your first complaint to the finance company. How long was that?

However, on the basis that you had no benefit from the contract whatsoever, it seems to me that you should recover all of your money. Let me warn you that the FOS is unlikely to recommend this. However they are likely to recommend that you receive a portion of your money – and maybe it will be sufficient to satisfy you and you won't feel as if you want to try and get the rest.

In the event that the FOS considers that you are not entitled to any further payment at all, then frankly I would recommend that you go to County Court and sue both the dealer and the finance company together to recover all of your money on the basis that I have described above – and I would say that your chances of success are much better than 85%.

The action would be on the small claims track and that would mean that in the highly likely event that you won the case, you would recover all of your costs plus your money +8%.

In the highly unlikely event that you lost the case then your losses will be limited simply to the claim fee and the allocation fee – which would probably be in the region of about £300.

We would help you all the way. We would help you draft the documents and advise you step-by-step – although you would have to conduct the case yourself and it would probably be done by way of a telephone hearing.

My personal view is that it wouldn't go as far as a hearing and that they would back down and pay you out. Personally I think it's a try on and they're taking advantage of the fact that they think that you don't know your way around and that you lack confidence

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One thing you should probably realise is that this finance company is properly got a fairly long term business relationship with the dealership. To a certain extent they depend on each other so don't imagine that the finance company is going to be impartial.

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I have a recording from the leisure caravans slagging off the finance company stating that if I had used their usual black horse finance none of this would be taken seriously. Leisure caravans actually told me they were repairing as a good will gesture and that the independent inspector the finance company are using haven’t a clue what they are talking about 


FYI I recorded the conversation because I new the seller was not going to repair it as instructed by scotia and I wanted this evidence to put to the finance company to help me. Even with this evidence it did not change any course of action and I still resulted where I am now 

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If its any help our 6 birth bailey pageant bretagne 2008 was 8,000 about a year ago in good condition


Unfortunately it too now has a slight spot of damp, it's common around the front right window for some reason (point to watch on the next one) 


I'll be fixing it myself because it's just a couple of beams and a new window seal but be warned damp can be very expensive and hard to fix

Please note:


  • I am employed in the IT sector of a high street retail chain but am not posting in any official capacity,so therefore any comments,suggestions or opinions are expressly personal ones and should not be viewed as an endorsement or with agreement of any company.
  • i am not legal trained in any form.
  • I have many experiences in life and do often use these in my posts

if ive been helpful kick my scales, if ive been unhelpful kick the scales of the person more helpful :eek:

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Ok so if we say that the lifespan of this caravan is 17 years, and you've only had it for one year then that seems to me ME2 that you have enjoyed £1,000 worth of its usable life assuming that you actually enjoyed it.

Because all the problems you have had no enjoyment of it.


On that basis the worst case scenario should be that you you should be out of pocket to the tune of £1,000. I still think that you shouldn't have suffered any loss at all and that furthermore you should be able to recover all of your out of pocket expenses plus also I think it might be worth examining the possibility of claiming something in respect of the lost enjoyment of holidays.


Call fos tomorrow and see where they are with this.

Also ask them to send you a copy of your complaint


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Spoke to ombudsman then said I have to wait for the final response letter to arrive and then send it to them to review 


ombudsmen state this should have the next steps on what I can do if not happy so we need to follow that in the first instance


no joy from baileys they were too busy to discuss due to COVID 19 issues 

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You said that you had a final response letter already. He told us that you had already begun the complaint to the ombudsman.

When you get the final response letter, please post it here and also we will help you to draft an accompanying letter of complaint

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I had the final response email but the ombudsman says I should receive a letter so to wait and see if that arrives if it doesn’t within 5 days to then ask finance company to send it 


in that letter it needs to state what my legal rights are if not happy with the complaint 


I have already raised the complaint with ombudsmen and when I called them today to update on my complaint this is what they have advised I do 

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The cost of being a small claim for a sum up to £5000 is £185.

The hearing fee – if it went to that, would be £335.

If you won your case – which is highly likely – then you would get these back. If you lost your case then this would be the extent of your exposure – £520

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