Caravan from leisure caravans - riddled with issues - Advantage Finance cancelled agreement and have the Van but will not refund Payments/repair costs sighting 12mts ownership/use as the reason - Court Time?

[summer9810]

Bailey Pegasus 546 2011 model 6 berth

 

https://www.baileyofbristol.co.uk/current-motorhome-models/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwnqH7BRDdARIsACTSAdsKhEuyseLbUtcMc20NisO95QtwoSN09Iy5I0Q1MKe0rFVDyk0YXtkaAkcyEALw_wcB

Edited September 21, 2020 by summer9810

[BankFodder]

By the way, is the dealer https://www.leisurecaravans.com/

[summer9810]

Yes it is 

[BankFodder]

Okay, I suggest that you phone Baileys of Bristol and make some casual enquiries.

Tell them that you are interested in buying a second-hand caravan – given the make and model number. Tell them that it seems to be in quite good condition but you are interested in knowing what the price would have been new and how long would they normally expect their caravans to last if they were properly maintained. Ask them what they think the resale value of 2011 caravan might be now.

See if they can let you have a copy of a brochure for that model. They may will have one in PDF format.

What we are trying to do is find out the value you have had – if any from your ownership of this caravan for one year. It seems to me that you had no value – and I'm wondering whether in fact you might be out of pocket stop

Also, you need to understand particular kinds of action you can take.

You could decide to make a complaint against the finance company to the financial ombudsman service. This would be completely risk-free – but would take quite a long time with a very uncertain outcome because the FOS is limp wristed and far too cosy with the finance industries. On the other hand, against this kind of finance company they may be more prepared to be assertive – unlike with the bank where they would tend to be biased towards the bank – in my view.

The alternative is to take a small claim in the County Court. This would be very assertive. You would incur some fees – probably about £300 all told, which you would get back if you one. This would send a real warning shot across the bow is of the finance company and I suspect that they would rather pay up then go to court. However they might push you to a hearing and if you won the hearing, then you would get your money back plus interest plus all your costs. My view is that you would probably win and I hope that you would get everything back because it seems to me that you have had no benefit from this contract.
However, can you tell us of any use/enjoyment you have had from the caravan.

Phone Baileys tomorrow

Where are you in the country? I understand that the dealer is in Durham

[summer9810]

I had already raised a complaint with the ombudsman the same date I informed leisure caravans of the problem, however as yet still have not heard from them.

 

the three outings we had were ruined as the hot water wouldn’t work nor would the heating. My daughter has chronic lung disease so needs warmth etc 

 

this is what cost us £700 to fix 

 

I live right near leisure caravans and ok I’ll call baileys and update tomorrow 

[BankFodder]

When you raised your complaint with the ombudsman, had you already complained to the finance company and received their final decision?

[summer9810]

Yes their final decision at that point was to let the leisure caravans repair it 

 

I did not want it repaired as it was not fit for purpose hence why I involved ombudsman. However when I realised how long it would take for the ombudsman to get back to me and upon reading the credit act etc I knew I had to give them chance to repair before I could reject 

[BankFodder]

Well you could have gone directly to court.

It's up to you know whether you want to wait for the ombudsman or go to court. Maybe will be a good idea to contact the ombudsman and see what's happening and see what their timescale is.

At least you haven't got the caravan sitting in your driveway so it's just a question of money and so you might think that it is worth waiting a bit.

Please could you post up a copy of the complaint which you sent the ombudsman

[summer9810]

I can’t provide the complaint as it was filled in online and submitted in text boxes if that makes sense. 
 

I can’t afford at the moment to go to court so I will await the ombudsman help firstly. I am pleased I am no longer financially attached to the credit agreement etc But feel upset at the amount of loss we have endured and Stress. I really thought we would have gotten something back out of all this 

I tried calling the ombudsman today but they said they could not answer my call due to COVID 19

[BankFodder]

Okay. Well telephone Baileys and get the information that I've asked for.

Even though you fill in online forms, you should take screenshots of what you are sending. This stuff is quite important. Phone the FOS tomorrow and see what their timescale is.

[BankFodder]

My view is that you made a contract for an item which was not of satisfactory quality and it is clear from the evidence even of the finance company's own inspector that it was not of satisfactory quality when you bought it.

In contract law, if an item is so unsatisfactory that you are effectively deprived of the entire benefit of the contract then the contract should be treated as void and you should recover all of your money and any ancillary expenses.

It seems to me that you had no enjoyment at all from this caravan during your period of ownership. I think it's outrageous that the finance company are apparently say that because you've had it for a year before they eventually – and grudgingly – agreed that it should be returned, that you should effectively pay for a years usage. At the very worst, it should be said that you only had usage of it from the moment you took delivery to the date of your first complaint to the finance company. How long was that?

However, on the basis that you had no benefit from the contract whatsoever, it seems to me that you should recover all of your money. Let me warn you that the FOS is unlikely to recommend this. However they are likely to recommend that you receive a portion of your money – and maybe it will be sufficient to satisfy you and you won't feel as if you want to try and get the rest.

In the event that the FOS considers that you are not entitled to any further payment at all, then frankly I would recommend that you go to County Court and sue both the dealer and the finance company together to recover all of your money on the basis that I have described above – and I would say that your chances of success are much better than 85%.

The action would be on the small claims track and that would mean that in the highly likely event that you won the case, you would recover all of your costs plus your money +8%.

In the highly unlikely event that you lost the case then your losses will be limited simply to the claim fee and the allocation fee – which would probably be in the region of about £300.

We would help you all the way. We would help you draft the documents and advise you step-by-step – although you would have to conduct the case yourself and it would probably be done by way of a telephone hearing.

My personal view is that it wouldn't go as far as a hearing and that they would back down and pay you out. Personally I think it's a try on and they're taking advantage of the fact that they think that you don't know your way around and that you lack confidence

[BankFodder]

One thing you should probably realise is that this finance company is properly got a fairly long term business relationship with the dealership. To a certain extent they depend on each other so don't imagine that the finance company is going to be impartial.

[summer9810]

I have a recording from the leisure caravans slagging off the finance company stating that if I had used their usual black horse finance none of this would be taken seriously. Leisure caravans actually told me they were repairing as a good will gesture and that the independent inspector the finance company are using haven’t a clue what they are talking about 

 

FYI I recorded the conversation because I new the seller was not going to repair it as instructed by scotia and I wanted this evidence to put to the finance company to help me. Even with this evidence it did not change any course of action and I still resulted where I am now 

[labrat]

If its any help our 6 birth bailey pageant bretagne 2008 was 8,000 about a year ago in good condition

 

Unfortunately it too now has a slight spot of damp, it's common around the front right window for some reason (point to watch on the next one) 

 

I'll be fixing it myself because it's just a couple of beams and a new window seal but be warned damp can be very expensive and hard to fix

[summer9810]

Upon further digging it shows that a new price for a Bailey Pegasus 546 is £17,005

[BankFodder]

Ok so if we say that the lifespan of this caravan is 17 years, and you've only had it for one year then that seems to me ME2 that you have enjoyed £1,000 worth of its usable life assuming that you actually enjoyed it.

Because all the problems you have had no enjoyment of it.

 

On that basis the worst case scenario should be that you you should be out of pocket to the tune of £1,000. I still think that you shouldn't have suffered any loss at all and that furthermore you should be able to recover all of your out of pocket expenses plus also I think it might be worth examining the possibility of claiming something in respect of the lost enjoyment of holidays.

 

Call fos tomorrow and see where they are with this.

Also ask them to send you a copy of your complaint

 

[summer9810]

Ok thanks I will do 

I’ll update the thread when I’ve spoken to them to advise 

[summer9810]

Spoke to ombudsman then said I have to wait for the final response letter to arrive and then send it to them to review 

 

ombudsmen state this should have the next steps on what I can do if not happy so we need to follow that in the first instance

 

no joy from baileys they were too busy to discuss due to COVID 19 issues 

[BankFodder]

You said that you had a final response letter already. He told us that you had already begun the complaint to the ombudsman.

When you get the final response letter, please post it here and also we will help you to draft an accompanying letter of complaint

[summer9810]

I had the final response email but the ombudsman says I should receive a letter so to wait and see if that arrives if it doesn’t within 5 days to then ask finance company to send it 

 

in that letter it needs to state what my legal rights are if not happy with the complaint 

 

I have already raised the complaint with ombudsmen and when I called them today to update on my complaint this is what they have advised I do 

[BankFodder]

The cost of being a small claim for a sum up to £5000 is £185.

The hearing fee – if it went to that, would be £335.

If you won your case – which is highly likely – then you would get these back. If you lost your case then this would be the extent of your exposure – £520